BF people - a dumb hoof boot and hacking question

[DirectorFury]

We're giving barefoot another bash on advice from my very old school farrier, so I'm a bit more confident with sticking with it this time!
Horse has very very thin and sensitive soles (my vet is also involved and we have xrays) and after 18 months of BF last time, with her diet managed as well as possible, she still struggled over anything that wasn't smooth tarmac.
Our hacking routes are largely off-road, but all of the routes have at least one section with big, sharp stones where even shod horses really struggle over them. Even to get from the yard to smooth tarmac involves loads of sharp stones/rubble so rehabbing her feet isn't going to be exactly straightforward.

My questions are:
- Would you leave the yard with boots on, remove them when you got a bf-suitable surface, and then put them back on when you get to stony surfaces?
The boots I have usually take 20 minutes a hoof to get on and involve using a rubber mallet, I can't see how I'm going to be able to get them on at the side of a road or on a narrow track! Or would you get boots that are easier to get on and take the extra risk of them falling off?

- Could I just leave the yard with boots on and leave them on the whole time? Or would that defeat the object of rehabbing her feet as she'd be relying on the boots?

- If you take boots on a hack how do you carry them? I'd need to take all 4 so I don't think they'd attach to the saddle very well.

- Do you trim in between farrier/trimmer visits so it's easier to get boots on/boots fit better, or do you have different boots for different times in the trimming cycle?

 

[HappyHollyDays]

My pony also has incredibly thin soles and I boot him all round in Viper Renegades to hack. They take seconds to put on, never move unless the mud is horrendously deep and they get stuck, have good grip on all surfaces except really smooth tarmac and most importantly they do not rub anywhere.

Pony has been BF virtually all his life and there is no way I could hack out even now without the boots on so I suspect you may be the same. It isn’t fair to ask them to go on surfaces that hurt them in the hope the sole will toughen up, some feet never adapt even with the correct diet and all the supplements in the world. Even Hoof Armour won’t solve going over sharp stones so if he needs boots use them.

I do have a hand rasp but because DP has a foot imbalance he regularly sees the Farrier to make sure he is 100% balanced so as not to put strain on him elsewhere.

 

[Mrs G]

20 minutes a hoof to put on?! Id def look for easier fitting boots - and that doesnt meant they will be more likely to fall off - I've used Trek Cavallos for about 6/7 years and only lost one in all that time (got taken by surprise with a very deep/boggy patch of ground that I couldnt avoid), and they fit no matter where we are in the trimming cycle - they might just be a little easier to get on and off just after a trim. If I know ill be doing a route that involves a stony stretch Ill boot horse up and leave the boots on for the whole hack but if I know Im sticking to grass tracks/the fields/smooth tarmac Ill leave him barefoot. If you are coming back the same way you went could you set off in boots and take them off after you've done the stoney bit then leave the boots hidden under a bush or behind a fence or something while you ride on more bf-suitable ground then the boots would be waiting for you when you came back to the stoney bit?

 

[milliepops]

i wouldn't leave hoof boots anywhere tbh, i had some nicked by kids when i thought they had been left out of sight... spotted them running off with them and couldn't catch up. i mean... why...? they are too expensive to risk IMO.

 

[MuddyMonster]

If I boot for rides, they stay on the whole ride.

Mine hasn't got thin soles but is EMS/PPID positive so at certain times of year, he needs a little extra help as he gets sensitive. We have lots of stony tracks (we have off-road forestry hacking but also have a fair bit of stony fire drag tracks too) as well as bridlepaths, lanes and farm tracks that are an easier surface.

Re: conditioning feet I tend to pick an easy route or walk in hand for the conditioning aspect until I think they are ok.

So, if he'd been in boots but he's coming out of needing them I might leave them on for our long forest hack where I know we'll be crossing or riding on the stony tracks) but then leave then off for a hack on grass, soft or smooth surface tracks or roadwork.

IMHO there is nothing wrong with needing or wanting to boot for all hacks though. I know that can be an unpopular opinion for some hardcore barefooters but I'd rather see a comfortable booted horse than an uncomfortable bare horse.

 

[TPO]

I would hack in boots. You want every step to be comfy so that he is moving correctly and building up the back of his hoof.

I might even be tempted to use EP pads in boots if his soles are that thing.

Assuming you have Easy boots? I had a mallet for them too and they were a PITA but never budged!

You could always do some handwalking with him bare once he's better in boots.

A wee backpack or saddle bags are a good place to carry boots that you aren't using. Much safer than stashing them somewhere

 

[Mrs G]

My bad Milliepops - I forget some people will nick anything!

 

[Fransurrey]

Definitely find easier boots! I don't bother to take off once on for a hack. If I don't think the horse is ready for stones, it's easier to choose a different route.

 

[HelenBack]

I'm another who says just ride with the boots on all the time. My horse has been barefoot for two years now and I still boot up all the time and have no plans to ever do otherwise. There are definitely places in our hacking where I could get off and take them off for a bit and then put them back on later on but to be honest it's a faff and I can't be bothered! He's more comfy in boots overall and I actually feel happier riding in them so that's the end of that as far as I'm concerned.

I do walking him in hand on smooth tarmac without boots a couple of times a week and he copes well with that so I agree with others that this something you could do if there's somewhere you can get her to easily enough. In my case though this is just part of the overall routine that I've found to work for my horse and it's not with any intention of getting him to the point of riding without boots but I do think it's helpful overall.

Agree that 20 minutes a boot is a bit much. I'd be too tired to ride and would need a lie down by that point! I think it's definitely worth having a look to see if there are any other options that would work for you and agree that maybe some that would take a thicker pad might be a good option. Personally I quite like getting different boots to see and try and probably have a few too many of them now but maybe I'm just sad!

 

[paddy555]

We're giving barefoot another bash on advice from my very old school farrier, so I'm a bit more confident with sticking with it this time!
Horse has very very thin and sensitive soles (my vet is also involved and we have xrays) and after 18 months of BF last time, with her diet managed as well as possible, she still struggled over anything that wasn't smooth tarmac.
Our hacking routes are largely off-road, but all of the routes have at least one section with big, sharp stones where even shod horses really struggle over them. Even to get from the yard to smooth tarmac involves loads of sharp stones/rubble so rehabbing her feet isn't going to be exactly straightforward.

My questions are:
- Would you leave the yard with boots on, remove them when you got a bf-suitable surface, and then put them back on when you get to stony surfaces?
The boots I have usually take 20 minutes a hoof to get on and involve using a rubber mallet, I can't see how I'm going to be able to get them on at the side of a road or on a narrow track! Or would you get boots that are easier to get on and take the extra risk of them falling off?

- Could I just leave the yard with boots on and leave them on the whole time? Or would that defeat the object of rehabbing her feet as she'd be relying on the boots?

- If you take boots on a hack how do you carry them? I'd need to take all 4 so I don't think they'd attach to the saddle very well.

- Do you trim in between farrier/trimmer visits so it's easier to get boots on/boots fit better, or do you have different boots for different times in the trimming cycle?

I haven't read the other replies but
I would put the boots on before you leave and take them off when you get back. From your description of the soles I wouldn't even try to rehab the feet to BF ATM. Once you get the horse going very well in boots then think again. Weeks at least or more possibly

I, and most people,

have boots that are easy to get on don't fall off.
Your main point in boots ATM is the sole thickness. Of the riding boots that is the glove and renegade. Of the more clumpy boots then the trail, cavallo. Others may have better ideas I have only used good riding boots.

If you use gloves or renegades you will have to trim between farrier trims. Best to do it very frequently so it is really little more that rounding your own nails.

ATM I wouldn't even consider barefoot. I would be looking at booted riding. Get the horse going well that way, the feet should improve generally and then look at the step to barefoot again. That, to me, is the most problem free way to get there.

No idea why it takes 20 mins to get a boot on. I can get 4 on in around a minute.
So why is it taking so long, which boots are you using and what can I suggest to try and make life easier for you?

 

[DirectorFury]

Thanks all, this is really helpful and making me feel a bit more confident about it all! I wish I could be one of those people who pull shoes and never look back but things are never simple .

IMHO there is nothing wrong with needing or wanting to boot for all hacks though. I know that can be an unpopular opinion for some hardcore barefooters but I'd rather see a comfortable booted horse than an uncomfortable bare horse.

Thank you for this! The bf FB groups are all quite militant in that boots should only be temporary and all horses should be rock crunching eventually and I was just really worried about screwing something up by always putting boots on.

Assuming you have Easy boots? I had a mallet for them too and they were a PITA but never budged!

We have these - https://hoofbootique.co.uk/floating-boot-trainer/ - but I think, with hindsight, I should've gone for a size up or used the 'Loose' size chart. When they're on they're bloody amazing and the horse moves really well in them, it just takes soo much effort to get them on!
With a fresh trim it's probably more like 5 minutes a boot but as soon as her feet grow a mm they just refuse to go on. I've always been too afraid to do any trimming myself.

I also have the Swiss Galoppers which take about 30 seconds to put on but tend to fall off 2 minutes later, I bought them when we first tried BF 4 years ago but her feet massively changed shape after 2 months and they just don't fit. These could work well for in-hand walks though as 2 minutes over stones from the yard gets us to nice tarmac to walk on.

Definitely find easier boots! I don't bother to take off once on for a hack. If I don't think the horse is ready for stones, it's easier to choose a different route.

Unfortunately we don't have any routes without stones due to the unmade road from the yard to the actual road .

I haven't read the other replies but
I would put the boots on before you leave and take them off when you get back. From your description of the soles I wouldn't even try to rehab the feet to BF ATM. Once you get the horse going very well in boots then think again. Weeks at least or more possibly

I, and most people,

have boots that are easy to get on don't fall off.
Your main point in boots ATM is the sole thickness. Of the riding boots that is the glove and renegade. Of the more clumpy boots then the trail, cavallo. Others may have better ideas I have only used good riding boots.

If you use gloves or renegades you will have to trim between farrier trims. Best to do it very frequently so it is really little more that rounding your own nails.

ATM I wouldn't even consider barefoot. I would be looking at booted riding. Get the horse going well that way, the feet should improve generally and then look at the step to barefoot again. That, to me, is the most problem free way to get there.

No idea why it takes 20 mins to get a boot on. I can get 4 on in around a minute.
So why is it taking so long, which boots are you using and what can I suggest to try and make life easier for you?

Thank you! When she was unshod previously it was tricky to find boots as her feet were ~10mm wider than long, Hoof Bootique said there were only a handful of boots that would fit that shape, so we ended up with the Floating Boots. I see that the Gloves and Renegade should work for that shape though so I'll order some fit kits after I remeasure her feet.

Re: trimming between farrier visits -- do you use a normal rasp? Or can I use the radius rasp thing? I'm really afraid of screwing this one up!

I think the Floating boots took so long to get on because I overestimated my ability and used the 'Tight' size chart, rather than the 'Loose' one! I'm also bloody useless in general and horse wasn't exactly helpful as she wasn't keen on me using the mallet to get the boots on. When she had a fresh trim it would be about 5 mins a boot but after a week or so I wouldn't stand a chance of getting them on. The main issue is that I'm useless, I suspect .

 

[cauda equina]

I ride in Scoots full time now but have done the boots for the stony bits/take off for the smooth bits thing in the past

I used Cavallo Simples, dead easy and quick to get on and off, and had a running backpack to carry them in
Despite having waist and chest straps the backpack still bounced around quite a lot; trotting was ok but cantering wasn't

 

[TPO]

A radius rasp is perfect for keeping on top of a trim and taking minimal off daily/every couple of days

Wear stimulates growth so if rasping/trimming is kept on an even keel, rather than a bigger rasp/trim every 6wks, then growth will remain more consistent (there are obviously other contributing factors) making the whole boot foot issue easier to manage

 

[paddy555]

Thank you for this! The bf FB groups are all quite militant in that boots should only be temporary and all horses should be rock crunching eventually and I was just really worried about screwing something up by always putting boots on.


.

there is cloud cuckoo land and there is reality. Reality usually works better.

Boots last as long as a horse needs them and for some they last forever. Your horse will have barefoot for the 22 hours a day you don't ride him. If he is sound, comfy and happy for the other 2 hours ridden in boots he will be just fine.

It is interesting that IRL some of the horses of those barefoot militants are in fact sore. They will continue to be sore as they are marched over hard surfaces to improve their feet.

On the rasp subject there always seem to be radius rasps for sale so I am not sure how effective they are. I have never used one. I think most find a normal rasp works OK.
Ask your farrier for an older rasp which won't be as sharp and get a pair of good gloves. Rasps snick the skin on fingers .

The knack with a rasp is practise. Think of it as an emery board on your nails. Whatever you do you will not remove too much. Beginners are far too cautious to get anywhere near doing that. Rasp with the foot held up (sole uppermost) to start with. Copy the emery board movements. If you want to invest in a stand or can make something suitable pull the foot forward and do the same thing. I would do it weekly. That is only a very small amount to take off to make sure your boots fit. The feet will grow more slowly as we go into winter so less to rasp off. If your farrier could come in 4 weeks to start with that will keep them under control and be easier until you get the rasping.

Look at U tube. There are lots of videos on trimming. They will show rasping and it will give you ideas and confidence.

 

[Kat]

I would buy a rasp to keep the feet tidy between trims.

I would also get some easier to put on boots.

I don't mess about taking boots off mid hack, they are on or off. I play it by ear when deciding whether to hack booted or bare depending upon the route, the distance, conditions under foot, weather, workload, trim cycle etc.

I am happy to let her pick her way over short stony sections or use the verge and that's what we do on the rough track we have to use to get to our hacking. Once on tarmac or grass she's fine.

For very thin soles I would really recommend EPS pads and Cavallos. Easy to put on, protective, and help stimulate the hoof even in boots. They are safe to turn out in if necessary, and are fine for steady hacking but a bit clumpy for other stuff. They are also a forgiving fit so you can use them when the trim has grown out a bit.

You won't damage anything by using boots, but you might by pushing the horse to cope bare too soon. I used boots for all hacking for about a year I think but have managed to have her comfortable to hack, hunt and xc bare. Just build it up gradually.

 

[paddy555]

. The main issue is that I'm useless, I suspect .

no just haven't got the right boots or right size. The renegades are very very easy to get on. The gloves are quicker but need a little knack. Get your fit kits and see how you go. I think if you could get the right boots in the right size then life would become very much easier for you.

 

[MuddyMonster]

Honestly, FB groups can be really helpful places but also really unhelpful places sometimes too!

If my boy starts to need boots for all hacking work he'll start to wear them for all work. On the same vein, if you need to use pads inside boots, use them I use a yoga mat cut up which I like as they squish down a bit over use - so if he's sensitive, I can use a brand new one but on a 'almost ready to stop using the pads' day I'll use a pre worn set.

I personally really like my Radius Rasps (I have the pro and the original) & can't get on with a normal rasp but I have small hands and dodgy wrists so struggle to physically hold and balance the weight of a normal rasp. But you could probably start with a normal rasp and see how you get on? Farriers and barefoot trimmers often give them away when they are getting blunt.

You sound like you're on the right track though so have more faith in yourself

 

[Gloi]

I would just hack in the boots for quite a long time and you will probably get improvement to the hooves with the work without needing to be barefoot when hacked. When you notice improvement then try short hacks. If he if footy on stones bare just keep him booted until he no longer is.

With my pony I hack in boots for anything over an hour or on really bad ground and bare for shorter rides. I did try bare all the time but did get too much wear and he got a bit footsore so I balance it out now using the boots. The tarmac round here is like riding on a rasp ?

Taking so long to put boots on isn't normal. You either need someone to help improve your technique or different boots. Sorry , reading the comments I think regular rasping will be your answer.

 

[Polos Mum]

You can 'condition' in boots with the correct use of pads - I'm sure your trimmer would advise the EP ones have been good for us.
You are looking for contact between the ground and the frog which you can achieve without being fully barefoot.