Biomechanic pro's please....opinions of this horse

Ok, I'll give you a bump, if only cos I don't really know what you mean by biomechanic pro's so maybe others aren't sure either. As in, I'm not sure what kind of analysis you are after, or what a bio mech pro would give you that someone else couldn't eg if they know about movement, soundness, paces, etc (but maybe that is what you're after)?

Interested too because he does what a friend of mine's horse does - comes on and off the bit, throwing his head up above the contact at times. My friend's horse throws his head up further, although he doesn't crunch on the bit quite as much as the one in this vid.

What's the score OP, you thinking of buying him?
 
Sorry I have probably confused people, was not the intention. I was just after opinions of his soundness / issues / bit of everything really. I thought that was biomechanics! sorry got that wrong then!!

He is 5 and my concern was lack of movement in front end (hind in my view is active). I own him already.

Any info would be a help.
 
My first thoughts are - it looks pretty newly backed and is probably just fussing with this damn thing someone recently shoved in its mouth. If not lunge assessments and teeth?
 
I think he looks a bit crooked and that's why he appears lame momentarily at points (bridle lame imo). I am sure that someone clued up on straightness can advise you.
 
i wouldnt have said that he was lame in front - hes very on his forehand in the video and leaving his arse 10 miles behind him so he isnt tracking up so that probably contributes to his lack of movement in front as hes dragging himself along. he has the typical spanish rolling hips which kinda makes them look lame behind but i have yet to meet one who doesnt. hes not actually taking up the contact hes just holding his head low which is why hes throwing his head. steady you hands and hold them higher off his neck. roundness will come with balance and working from behind. have you tried him over trotting poles to get him to lift and get his back end under him. the poles need to be fairly close together to get him to shorten and lift you arent looking for extension. i wouldnt be too worried about him to much given his age. lots of up and down transitions halt to canter, canter to halt etc to get him to pull himself together will help too.

:) hope thats a bit of help anyway :)
 
amymay said:
He would be helped enormously by being allowed to move forward. Instead of having the front end fiddled with.
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Yes I agree (not me riding him) and I do not fiddle in front like that. I've had him at a classical yard for past 6 months.....so flash has come off and been working on getting him more forward than worrying about his head. I have just moved yard to somewhere with amazing surfaces and we were a bit concerned with his lack of movement in front. He doesn't want to go forward or use his forelimbs.
 
StormyMoments said:
i wouldnt have said that he was lame in front - hes very on his forehand in the video and leaving his arse 10 miles behind him so he isnt tracking up so that probably contributes to his lack of movement in front as hes dragging himself along. he has the typical spanish rolling hips which kinda makes them look lame behind but i have yet to meet one who doesnt. hes not actually taking up the contact hes just holding his head low which is why hes throwing his head. steady you hands and hold them higher off his neck. roundness will come with balance and working from behind. have you tried him over trotting poles to get him to lift and get his back end under him. the poles need to be fairly close together to get him to shorten and lift you arent looking for extension. i wouldnt be too worried about him to much given his age. lots of up and down transitions halt to canter, canter to halt etc to get him to pull himself together will help too.

:) hope thats a bit of help anyway :)
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Thanks - yeah he has done poles. Just worried as he trips a lot and always in front.....coupled with lack of wanting to go forward makes me wonder.
 
Good to hear. Sorry I missed your post re his age when I cross posted. I would think he will settle into himself with right work - poss diff mouthpiece too.
 
In that case I guess vet? You could call in those circumstances and see if they support bute trial yourself first before all the expensive stuff. B careful as if u r not going to go down insurance route this little phone call could have severe implications to insurance down the line... I might b tempted to do my own little trial first as doesn't appear drastically urgent.
 
I am no expert but my eye is constantly being drawn to the hindlimbs not the fore. He is not bringing his hindlegs underneath himself at all. Quite a strange hock action as well?
 
buddylove said:
I am no expert but my eye is constantly being drawn to the hindlimbs not the fore. He is not bringing his hindlegs underneath himself at all. Quite a strange hock action as well?
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That's interesting, I've always thought his hind action was good and active (been told that too). His hinds to me look consistant, its the forelimbs I struggle with and have my eye on! (i'm no expert though).
 
Turks said:
In that case I guess vet? You could call in those circumstances and see if they support bute trial yourself first before all the expensive stuff. B careful as if u r not going to go down insurance route this little phone call could have severe implications to insurance down the line... I might b tempted to do my own little trial first as doesn't appear drastically urgent.
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drat! it's funny you know as I have always been worried about his forelimbs and put it down to green-ness and bad surfaces at previous yard (indoor too deep and outdoor too stoney he struggled in both and having another horse having PSD issues I'm paranoid about surfaces now!). But nobody has ever said anything about it, so I just thought it was me being fussy! people have spotted he trips sometimes but as he is lazy and coupled with the surfaces......it was put down to that. But he moved to a new yard last weekend and they have amazing surfaces.....within their first lunge session with him they have bought up his forelimbs as a concern. So, they're obviously on the same wave length as me! (which is great as they will be assisting with his training IF he isn't broken anyway LOL!).
 
Do you have any more recent vids? I imagine it might be a bit hard for people to judge how he is on that vid 6 months ago? To whether he is the same/improved currently with poles/better surface/no flash etc.
 
ester said:
Do you have any more recent vids? I imagine it might be a bit hard for people to judge how he is on that vid 6 months ago? To whether he is the same/improved currently with poles/better surface/no flash etc.
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Hmmmm not really, well I have a couple but not very good videos (not clear enough). I will add one now.....although was taken using an iphone so I'm sure it will be hard to see.
 
There's something not quite working right IMO. Watching him to me is like watching a horse that has overreached too many times and is weary of doing it again. Has the ability to move the hinds underneath well but there appears to be some hesitation. To me, that comes from the stifle through hock...just my eye is drawn to it. I don't necessarily think this is an issue in this area though. The forelegs seem a little numbed down in their movement.

This is purely gut instinct, but I would get a farrier out with the sole intention of assessing the arch of the footfall. To my eyes, he is not arching quite as fluidly as he could be in front. This is usually something that can be corrected with little fuss by a good farrier or barefoot trimmer.
As well as that, I would get a good saddle fitter out. Not because I think there is anything wrong with the fit of the current saddle, but because he looks to have a big shoulder on him and it could be that he needs an allowance for the movement. He goes better in canter and this may be why. His shoulder movement under the saddle may not be as big as it is in trot.

It could be both, it could be neither, but he just looks a little stifled in his movement and I would hazard a guess that it is a slight blocking in the front somewhere, either physically with the shoulder or motionally with the front footfall arch.

He looks sound, just not quite comfortable. Would be interesting to see how he is going now.
 
SpanishNeddy said:
Here is a more recent video of him (my friend riding and she has not ridden for a couple of years so no nasty remarks on her riding please ;)).
Gives you an idea though (surface is very stoney).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p1BcfVu6qIs
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Notice the length of cannon bone in this video but he does seem a little more fluid in his movement. Quite hard to see much else but no fear about the rider, no nasty comments on here. If only everyone rode like that after 2 years of nothing :)
 
I cant get the videos to load properly because we have Internet issues but if you are worried about bilateral forelimb lameness I would get the vet to block out one foot PDQ that might give a quick and not to expensive answer to wants going on .
 
If you stop/start/stop/start the first video his left hind leg is quite out of step and trailing :) so he's incredibly heavy on the forehand. I'm not a vet or expert by any means but my feeling is that he's so heavy on the forehand he's completely out of rhythm and it's making him appear lame and giving him difficulty with polework. I'd maybe give up on teaching him contact for now because he's obviously not accepting it, go back to loose unspectacular work emphasising straight lines rather than circles, with the rider in a light seat, and see if his basic rhythm improves after a month or two. Hopefully this will lift him off his front end :) GL!

Edit: he's much better in the second video. What a difference with someone else on him!
 
I think he is very pedestrian in front at the moment and not using his shoulders at all and that is what you are seeing OP. He is fairly extravagant behind, and I suspect continually driving himself onto the forehand and not allowing himself the opportunity to elevate his shoulders and work over his back. I bet it is something which will resolve itself enormously in time and as he gets stronger.
There is a drastic improvement from the first video to the 2nd. He was so crooked and irregular in the first video it looked like a mechanical issue, but was hard to pinpoint.
My (now 7 year old) has a huge & powerful bottom & really suffered in a similar way. When he is now working straight and energetically, he has real suspension, but he had horrible pony strides a couple of years ago.
 
_GG_ said:
There's something not quite working right IMO. Watching him to me is like watching a horse that has overreached too many times and is weary of doing it again. Has the ability to move the hinds underneath well but there appears to be some hesitation. To me, that comes from the stifle through hock...just my eye is drawn to it. I don't necessarily think this is an issue in this area though. The forelegs seem a little numbed down in their movement.

This is purely gut instinct, but I would get a farrier out with the sole intention of assessing the arch of the footfall. To my eyes, he is not arching quite as fluidly as he could be in front. This is usually something that can be corrected with little fuss by a good farrier or barefoot trimmer.
As well as that, I would get a good saddle fitter out. Not because I think there is anything wrong with the fit of the current saddle, but because he looks to have a big shoulder on him and it could be that he needs an allowance for the movement. He goes better in canter and this may be why. His shoulder movement under the saddle may not be as big as it is in trot.

It could be both, it could be neither, but he just looks a little stifled in his movement and I would hazard a guess that it is a slight blocking in the front somewhere, either physically with the shoulder or motionally with the front footfall arch.

He looks sound, just not quite comfortable. Would be interesting to see how he is going now.
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Thanks for this.

Saddle wise - this was saddle in Spain. I have bought him a Barry Swain Semiflex which is totally open and allows shoulder to move. He goes much better in this hollistic saddle. So this has been done already :-)

With regards to feet he was VERY long in the toe with no heel so farrier has been correcting his feet. We did have him barefoot but he couldnt take it after 4 months so fronts went on and he is happier for it.

I have just posted video above which is more recent :-)
 
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