Biomechanic pro's please....opinions of this horse

SpanishNeddy said:
He is 5 years old. But not done anything bless him. Well thankfully, was hard finding something in Spain that didn't know piaffe at 5 LOL!

Yes he is very fussy in the mouth but very light in the hand you are right.

My other PRE was the same, now a few years later you can take a nice contact and he is fine. He is now 8 and at his best at the moment, doing so well. My other one is hot headed and sensitive though (not like this one, he is laid back and not spooky).

No I have not tried the Micklem, I have heard the same as well.
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He looks very sweet! Lots of potential! Yes, I agree, often the horses over in Portugal/Spain can piaffe and passage before they can trot, lol!

I wish you all the best with him, he so reminds me of my mare, she's very similiar to him in how she rides! She has so much power in front she doesn't know what to do with it, lol!
 
Vet must be there now but unfortunately the girls keep thinking it's great fun to jump the fence and gallop around the field in between tricking me into thinking they will stay in and then breaking free again!!! Little monkeys.

SN, I hope you get what you want from the vet and any necessary checks done. Very much looking forward to hearing what they said.
 
Vet has been!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Outcome: nothing medically wrong with him at all (so well done everyone you were all right!).

He did a full lameness work-up (on hard ground and in school etc...) and basically in essence he is just an overgrown baby who has no idea how big he is or where his legs are or where they go! throughout the whole work-up duration he did show one lame stride (right fore) the vet said, but it was when he was being distracted and not concentrating on what he was doing. Vet said he would have passed a full vetting. Vet was pleased with how my farrier has managed his front feet and agreed with my farrier that they are about 70% there. Vet suggested we x-ray his feet when my farrier gets them to 100%, but no point doing it yesterday as we know they are not perfect and only 3/4 of the way there. Vet was pleased with what my farrier has done with them though (which was another relief! and for my farrier too!).

Vet did mention he would benefit from physio, so I will arrange that for him (something I always do anyway).

He did have a few over reaches I had missed (oops) and they were quite high up, so vet said use the fluffy over reach boots. So will get him a pair of those. He has the rubber ones already and we are going to use those for turnout.

Such a relief! am so pleased.

For those that do not know, he is 16.3HH and only 5 years old. He is PRE and they mature much later (do not stop growing until 9 sometimes) and his sire is 17.1H so he is still growing at the moment. When he was in Spain he was chained to a wall all day, so no wonder he does not know his body......!

Thank you to everyone for your help, appreciated.
 
SpanishNeddy said:
Vet has been!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Outcome: nothing medically wrong with him at all (so well done everyone you were all right!).

He did a full lameness work-up (on hard ground and in school etc...) and basically in essence he is just an overgrown baby who has no idea how big he is or where his legs are or where they go! throughout the whole work-up duration he did show one lame stride (right fore) the vet said, but it was when he was being distracted and not concentrating on what he was doing. Vet said he would have passed a full vetting. Vet was pleased with how my farrier has managed his front feet and agreed with my farrier that they are about 70% there. Vet suggested we x-ray his feet when my farrier gets them to 100%, but no point doing it yesterday as we know they are not perfect and only 3/4 of the way there. Vet was pleased with what my farrier has done with them though (which was another relief! and for my farrier too!).

Vet did mention he would benefit from physio, so I will arrange that for him (something I always do anyway).

He did have a few over reaches I had missed (oops) and they were quite high up, so vet said use the fluffy over reach boots. So will get him a pair of those. He has the rubber ones already and we are going to use those for turnout.

Such a relief! am so pleased.

For those that do not know, he is 16.3HH and only 5 years old. He is PRE and they mature much later (do not stop growing until 9 sometimes) and his sire is 17.1H so he is still growing at the moment. When he was in Spain he was chained to a wall all day, so no wonder he does not know his body......!

Thank you to everyone for your help, appreciated.
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So thrilled for you! You must be so relieved! I've been looking out for an update. All the best with him :)
 
JingleSmells said:
There's something not quite working right IMO. Watching him to me is like watching a horse that has overreached too many times and is weary of doing it again. Has the ability to move the hinds underneath well but there appears to be some hesitation. .
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SpanishNeddy said:
Vet has been!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Outcome: nothing medically wrong with him at all (so well done everyone you were all right!).

He did a full lameness work-up (on hard ground and in school etc...) and basically in essence he is just an overgrown baby who has no idea how big he is or where his legs are or where they go! throughout the whole work-up duration he did show one lame stride (right fore) the vet said, but it was when he was being distracted and not concentrating on what he was doing. Vet said he would have passed a full vetting. Vet was pleased with how my farrier has managed his front feet and agreed with my farrier that they are about 70% there. Vet suggested we x-ray his feet when my farrier gets them to 100%, but no point doing it yesterday as we know they are not perfect and only 3/4 of the way there. Vet was pleased with what my farrier has done with them though (which was another relief! and for my farrier too!).

Vet did mention he would benefit from physio, so I will arrange that for him (something I always do anyway).

He did have a few over reaches I had missed (oops) and they were quite high up, so vet said use the fluffy over reach boots. So will get him a pair of those. He has the rubber ones already and we are going to use those for turnout.

Such a relief! am so pleased.

For those that do not know, he is 16.3HH and only 5 years old. He is PRE and they mature much later (do not stop growing until 9 sometimes) and his sire is 17.1H so he is still growing at the moment. When he was in Spain he was chained to a wall all day, so no wonder he does not know his body......!

Thank you to everyone for your help, appreciated.
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Yay, that is absolutely fabulous news and very very interesting that he has overreached a few times. It was one of my initial musings so you know what, to have an Iberian that can move well enough to be overreaching means you have a very lovely boy. I have known some that have never even come close to tracking up, let alone overreaching.

I cannot tell you how jealous I am of you. He is just a stunner :)
 
JingleSmells said:
Yay, that is absolutely fabulous news and very very interesting that he has overreached a few times. It was one of my initial musings so you know what, to have an Iberian that can move well enough to be overreaching means you have a very lovely boy. I have known some that have never even come close to tracking up, let alone overreaching.

I cannot tell you how jealous I am of you. He is just a stunner :)
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OMG you did didn't you!!!!!!!! amazing, well done you! you totally got it all bang on.

Yes my other one is a bit like that, he struggles to even track up. He has lovely movement though and VERY foot sure but this one (Jascal is his name by the way!) probably has more potential but is going to be much harder work to get there of course.

Thank you, he is a lovely boy (when he isn't pulling my hair or toggles on my coat!).
 
SpanishNeddy said:
OMG you did didn't you!!!!!!!! amazing, well done you! you totally got it all bang on.

Yes my other one is a bit like that, he struggles to even track up. He has lovely movement though and VERY foot sure but this one (Jascal is his name by the way!) probably has more potential but is going to be much harder work to get there of course.

Thank you, he is a lovely boy (when he isn't pulling my hair or toggles on my coat!).
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The harder the journey, the more rewarding the outcome :) xx
 
That's good news and worth the cost of the vet to put your mind at rest and to know the farrier is making a good job .
It's a good idea to X-ray the feet I often do this with mine not long after purchase it gives me a reference point for the future (I keep all my horses long term)
On the overreaching J my TB has to live in fluffy overreach boots when he's out side the stable he's a huge mover behind and a very big horse he's only just at seven getting as big a mover with his forelegs .
Hes shoeless ATM and this the first time he's been able to be in the field without them even BF before he had to wear them and they get shredded he really needs them.
I would start perception work with him that basic stepping over all sorts of things in walk out hack and in the school it makes a huge difference to this type .
If you get a Acpat trained physio ask about tapeing , that's using strechey sticky tape that the athletes use to increase perception of parts of the body . Helping the horse to improve its eye to foot coordination can transform them, and helps the one who are very focused 'back ' on the rider in perhaps not the most constructive way .
Great news now you can crack on with work with a clear mind and a good thing I think the new yard queried with you I would rather they did that than ploughed on reguardless , that would increase my confidence that the move will work.
 
Goldenstar said:
That's good news and worth the cost of the vet to put your mind at rest and to know the farrier is making a good job .
It's a good idea to X-ray the feet I often do this with mine not long after purchase it gives me a reference point for the future (I keep all my horses long term)
On the overreaching J my TB has to live in fluffy overreach boots when he's out side the stable he's a huge mover behind and a very big horse he's only just at seven getting as big a mover with his forelegs .
Hes shoeless ATM and this the first time he's been able to be in the field without them even BF before he had to wear them and they get shredded he really needs them.
I would start perception work with him that basic stepping over all sorts of things in walk out hack and in the school it makes a huge difference to this type .
If you get a Acpat trained physio ask about tapeing , that's using strechey sticky tape that the athletes use to increase perception of parts of the body . Helping the horse to improve its eye to foot coordination can transform them, and helps the one who are very focused 'back ' on the rider in perhaps not the most constructive way .
Great news now you can crack on with work with a clear mind and a good thing I think the new yard queried with you I would rather they did that than ploughed on reguardless , that would increase my confidence that the move will work.
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Great post! :)
 
Goldenstar said:
That's good news and worth the cost of the vet to put your mind at rest and to know the farrier is making a good job .
It's a good idea to X-ray the feet I often do this with mine not long after purchase it gives me a reference point for the future (I keep all my horses long term)
On the overreaching J my TB has to live in fluffy overreach boots when he's out side the stable he's a huge mover behind and a very big horse he's only just at seven getting as big a mover with his forelegs .
Hes shoeless ATM and this the first time he's been able to be in the field without them even BF before he had to wear them and they get shredded he really needs them.
I would start perception work with him that basic stepping over all sorts of things in walk out hack and in the school it makes a huge difference to this type .
If you get a Acpat trained physio ask about tapeing , that's using strechey sticky tape that the athletes use to increase perception of parts of the body . Helping the horse to improve its eye to foot coordination can transform them, and helps the one who are very focused 'back ' on the rider in perhaps not the most constructive way .
Great news now you can crack on with work with a clear mind and a good thing I think the new yard queried with you I would rather they did that than ploughed on reguardless , that would increase my confidence that the move will work.
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Thanks I am so relieved I can tell you!

I am very happy my yard informed me of their concerns before thinking of the money. It was after their first session with him as well. YM yesterday attended the vet appointment with me for the whole duration as well. Really loving it there. YM satisfied with outcome as well. I would rather they inform me of anything they are concerned about for sure, like you say. I would rather spend a few hundred checking our concerns so we can now crack on knowing it's just because he is gangly monster LOL.

Fluffy overreach boots research has commenced! are there any particular makes you think are best? I know Eskadron ones, but there are quite a few others now (HKM, Harry's Horse etc).

What is ACPAT Physio? my usual physio is Kate Peckham if you know her?
I think I will get osteo first (as he is a bit wonky i think he could do with osteo then physio IMO).

Do you have any links to video on examples of that? would love to see.

Thank you :)
 
ACPAT physios are human ones that have gone on to train for animals it's a long slog for them but it gives them ( the good ones of course ) a great overview
Plus the fact they can do us and the horses is a big help.
My physio gives imput into the schooling exercises and the horse work now and again.
But use the person you trust I was not suggesting you should change .
I often do fortnightly sessions with a new horse they rarely go longer than six weeks when in work.
I wish I had this physio and system when I was younger and doing more I would have been much quicker and effective if I had.
 
Goldenstar said:
ACPAT physios are human ones that have gone on to train for animals it's a long slog for them but it gives them ( the good ones of course ) a great overview
Plus the fact they can do us and the horses is a big help.
My physio gives imput into the schooling exercises and the horse work now and again.
But use the person you trust I was not suggesting you should change .
I often do fortnightly sessions with a new horse they rarely go longer than six weeks when in work.
I wish I had this physio and system when I was younger and doing more I would have been much quicker and effective if I had.
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Oh ok I think she is that then. Well I know she started with humans then trained in animal (or equine). She is great.

Do you agree I should get Osteopath first then Physio?
 
SpanishNeddy said:
Oh ok I think she is that then. Well I know she started with humans then trained in animal (or equine). She is great.

Do you agree I should get Osteopath first then Physio?
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No I would never do that .
The vet has flagged up that he thinks the horse will benefit from the physio working on the muscles .
There's no way I would get an osteo until I had the horses muscles as good as loose as possible .
 
Goldenstar said:
No I would never do that .
The vet has flagged up that he thinks the horse will benefit from the physio working on the muscles .
There's no way I would get an osteo until I had the horses muscles as good as loose as possible .
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This. Many issues originate in the muscles, so the sorting of them can sort all sorts of other issues. I'd rather have the physio do regular work for a few months before looking into anything else. Correct work is important as well. No point spending on the physio to have the tension brought back each time he is ridden.
 
Eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeek, ok I need help!

I thought it was best to do osteo first (to sort out alignment etc) then once he was straight etc then physio to work on the soft tissue and muscle. Is this not the better way round of doing it? :)

As doing physio first when still wonky wont do the complete job will it?

Sorry I'm always confused LOL.

Thank you :)
 
SpanishNeddy said:
Eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeek, ok I need help!

I thought it was best to do osteo first (to sort out alignment etc) then once he was straight etc then physio to work on the soft tissue and muscle. Is this not the better way round of doing it? :)

As doing physio first when still wonky wont do the complete job will it?

Sorry I'm always confused LOL.

Thank you :)
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No, I know what you're saying. The physio would be my first port of call as they will not work on a horse that needs osteo work. They IMO if you have a good physio, can tell you what the issues are for the whole horse. They can help get the horse ready for the osteo and then do all of the supportive work afterwards. My point is simply that just because there is misalignment doesn't necessarily mean that it is an osteo issue. Sometimes, tense muscles alter the carriage of the frame, so can give the impression of misalignment when it is actually not truly the case.

I personally go the route of physio and then osteo if needed. But...do what is right for you and your horse.
 
There is no way even it an osteo can straight a joint on a horse that is ' out ' in will stay ' in ' unless the muscles are in good nick and not in spasm or atrophied.
Physio works best when is not a one off thing it's an assistance to the horse and the trainer through out the horses training.
Having been to osteos myself and understanding more through study how have bodies work it's just not something I would ever do .
By that I mean use an osteo as the first port of call this is a healthy young horse he needs training support physios are so good at providing this .
Your vet said a physio the physio will send him a report everytime she works on the horse and mine rings the if she finds anything that concerns her .
The great thing about regular physio is it good for monitoring changes the horses muscles tell her what changing that way you nip issues in the bud.
The vet the physio the trainer / rider working together is a what develops a good horse.
 
JingleSmells said:
No, I know what you're saying. The physio would be my first port of call as they will not work on a horse that needs osteo work. They IMO if you have a good physio, can tell you what the issues are for the whole horse. They can help get the horse ready for the osteo and then do all of the supportive work afterwards. My point is simply that just because there is misalignment doesn't necessarily mean that it is an osteo issue. Sometimes, tense muscles alter the carriage of the frame, so can give the impression of misalignment when it is actually not truly the case.

I personally go the route of physio and then osteo if needed. But...do what is right for you and your horse.
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Ahaaa yes makes sense, thank you.

Totally understand that and as you and Goldenstar got this all totally right I will go with both of your suggestions and get physio first!

On the note, I usually use Kate Peckham (I'm surrey/sussex). If you heard of her or recommend anyone else you think is better?

Brilliant :-)
 
Goldenstar said:
There is no way even it an osteo can straight a joint on a horse that is ' out ' in will stay ' in ' unless the muscles are in good nick and not in spasm or atrophied.
Physio works best when is not a one off thing it's an assistance to the horse and the trainer through out the horses training.
Having been to osteos myself and understanding more through study how have bodies work it's just not something I would ever do .
By that I mean use an osteo as the first port of call this is a healthy young horse he needs training support physios are so good at providing this .
Your vet said a physio the physio will send him a report everytime she works on the horse and mine rings the if she finds anything that concerns her .
The great thing about regular physio is it good for monitoring changes the horses muscles tell her what changing that way you nip issues in the bud.
The vet the physio the trainer / rider working together is a what develops a good horse.
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Got it, thank you! totally understand your way of thinking now.

As above, as you and JingleSmells got everything right....I will use the physio first as you both suggested :-)
 
I have read some of the tread and now have come across the suggestion that you get a Physio etc. I would always get a Chiropractor first then once straight get a Physio . The Chiropractor I would recommend is Jose Gomez. He is not just a Chiropractor but a vet and Acupuncturist. Can PM you his number if you want it. He is in West Sussex which is good.
 
paulineh said:
I have read some of the tread and now have come across the suggestion that you get a Physio etc. I would always get a Chiropractor first then once straight get a Physio . The Chiropractor I would recommend is Jose Gomez. He is not just a Chiropractor but a vet and Acupuncturist. Can PM you his number if you want it. He is in West Sussex which is good.
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Thank you. Yes I know of him (as he is Spanish many of my Spanish horse owner friends have mentioned him before).

would chiro come before physio then?
 
paulineh said:
I have read some of the tread and now have come across the suggestion that you get a Physio etc. I would always get a Chiropractor first then once straight get a Physio . The Chiropractor I would recommend is Jose Gomez. He is not just a Chiropractor but a vet and Acupuncturist. Can PM you his number if you want it. He is in West Sussex which is good.
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Interestingly, the three Chiros I have had out in the past 3 years, one to Fly and two to others horses on the yard have ALL asked if the horse has been having physio as it makes their job so much easier.

The only time I get a chiro/osteo straight out is when it is obvious need for manipulation due to a slip or fall etc. When it is a training/development issue, I prefer to get them loose first, then if needed still, get the chiro/osteo out.

This is what I love about this forum though. I actually hope a few more people contribute on this as it would be interesting to hear others thoughts. Just because we do something, doesn't mean it's the best way, so I am always willing to listen and learn :)
 
Oh good news, I'm glad the vet has laid your mind to rest. Now it's time to up the game on the riding and training end to help your horse hold himself properly and not hurt himself. Physio will help of course, but it is the rider's job to get it right. Good luck, and see if you can get some experienced (with Spanish horses and their unique way of going) help.
 
Great news OP. I'm a big fan of hacking for just letting them grow up. I think bending and gentle lateral as well as lots of transitions while they're moving on and seeing the world works wonders for a young horse. All the best for him. Would be nice to know how you get on. Controversially, I think you'd be surprised by how much that would bring him on over and above all the work the specialists do but maybe I'm too tight and too cynical! I'm always amazed at how much everyone spends on their horses!! I could feel quite guilty reading all this...;)
 
Turks said:
Great news OP. I'm a big fan of hacking for just letting them grow up. I think bending and gentle lateral as well as lots of transitions while they're moving on and seeing the world works wonders for a young horse. All the best for him. Would be nice to know how you get on. Controversially, I think you'd be surprised by how much that would bring him on over and above all the work the specialists do but maybe I'm too tight and too cynical! I'm always amazed at how much everyone spends on their horses!! I could feel quite guilty reading all this...;)
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Any specialist that thought Jascal needed more work than very basic building blocks would be out on their ear in no time if he was mine :) As you say, Hacking and gentle basics will set solid foundations. I have said it to SN in PMs, I REALLY like this horse, I think he is going to be really very special if it's all handled well.
 
JingleSmells said:
Any specialist that thought Jascal needed more work than very basic building blocks would be out on their ear in no time if he was mine :) As you say, Hacking and gentle basics will set solid foundations. I have said it to SN in PMs, I REALLY like this horse, I think he is going to be really very special if it's all handled well.
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Eeeek thank you :-)

I'm so excited for him now and still so pleased it's just a training thing :-)
 
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