Bird scarer petition

[Patterdale]

Have you read my OP? Most of it concerns things other than horses!.

Yes but I'm afraid I don't think the reasons are valid (or plausible). I've never known anyone have gas guns going off several times a minute from dawn till dusk; it would be completely ineffective and pointless as it wouldnt scare the birds; not to mention that the farmer would need shares in Calor.

If anyone could record one going off constantly 24/7 then perhaps I would believe it; as it is I'll continue to think as I did before.

 

[RunToEarth]

Well the scarers are going off as usual several times a minute right outside my house and the birds are totally unconcerned.

Have you actually spoken to your local farmer about this? I find it incredibly difficult to believe anyone would have gas guns going several times a minute - they use a considerable amount of gas when you have them set at 30minute intervals, and I have yet to see a gas gun capable of going off several times a minute, every minute of the day.

 

[Wagtail]

Yes but I'm afraid I don't think the reasons are valid (or plausible). I've never known anyone have gas guns going off several times a minute from dawn till dusk; it would be completely ineffective and pointless as it wouldnt scare the birds; not to mention that the farmer would need shares in Calor.

If anyone could record one going off constantly 24/7 then perhaps I would believe it; as it is I'll continue to think as I did before.

It is not just one. There are at least ten positioned all around us, so in total they are going off several times a minute. When I get time I will youtube it for you.

Last year I had to go to my doctors and get a course of temazepam due to one going off all night. My nerves were in shreds. I have to be up early and deal sole handedly with 8 horses every day, 7 days a week. I was getting no sleep and it was making my job dangerous. Even when they do not malfunction, they start at around 6 am at present and that gets as early as 4 am. Which again prevents adequate sleep. But that is obviously not a valid reason for you.

When we bought this place 10 years ago it was quiet and peaceful. Then each year more and more of the bird scarers were placed around us. I would never have bought this place if they had been going off when we viewed. So we are now worried about when we come to sell that it will be unsellable too. Again you probably feel this is not a valid reason.

I would not mind if there was just one bird scarer, place over 200 metres away and only going off 3 - 4 times an hour, but this is just ridiculous.

And we have also heard from OWLIE about the poor horse that was killed. What if the rider had stayed on board and had been killed along side it. Presumably that would be okay too? Sadly I feel that it WILL take a human death before any proper regulations are put in place.

 

[DragonSlayer]

We have them around here but they tend to be placed in the middle of fields and don't go off all hours....the horses are used to them as well, even when riding past the ones that are closer...

Personally for me I think they desensitise the horses somewhat, so that when we ride past the shooting range on the BP ride, the horses tend not to be so bothered...

I'm more concerned at the moment with dog walkers who cannot control their dogs and like to scare the horses...! One horse doesn't care, the other two will murder the dogs if they get too close...

 

[cobgoblin]

Have you actually spoken to your local farmer about this? I find it incredibly difficult to believe anyone would have gas guns going several times a minute - they use a considerable amount of gas when you have them set at 30minute intervals, and I have yet to see a gas gun capable of going off several times a minute, every minute of the day.

It is possible to live in a village with several individual farms. I doubt OP is referring to the SAME gas gun firing repeatedly.

 

[Wagtail]

It is possible to live in a village with several individual farms. I doubt OP is referring to the SAME gas gun firing repeatedly.

Correct. Our property is bordered by 3 different farms. Each have increased the number of scarers they have each year. Each has them going off several times an hour. Added together it sounds like a battle going on. The horses are not bothered except if we are hacking and one is very close, but one of the dogs barks constantly at them. One spends the whole daylight hours shaking and hiding. She has run off 3 times in total. Twice ending up handed in at a vets and the microchip saving her. The third, luckily someone picked her up on the busy A road. We now have to keep her in all day long.

 

[RunToEarth]

Last year I had to go to my doctors and get a course of temazepam due to one going off all night. My nerves were in shreds. I have to be up early and deal sole handedly with 8 horses every day, 7 days a week. I was getting no sleep and it was making my job dangerous. Even when they do not malfunction, they start at around 6 am at present and that gets as early as 4 am. Which again prevents adequate sleep. But that is obviously not a valid reason for you.

When we bought this place 10 years ago it was quiet and peaceful. Then each year more and more of the bird scarers were placed around us. I would never have bought this place if they had been going off when we viewed. So we are now worried about when we come to sell that it will be unsellable too. Again you probably feel this is not a valid reason.

I'm slightly unsympathetic for people who buy property which is quite evidently surrounded by arable farmland and then proceed to complain about every aspect of it - last harvest someone presented us with a window cleaning bill for harvest dust which I thought was only slightly neurotic.

I wouldn't say your experience is particularly typical of most farmers using gas guns and I would be firstly discussing it with them, and if nothing happens I would be getting your local council involved because it isn't pragmatic (or normal, or reasonable) for gas guns to be going off at 4am.

I wouldn't, however, based on your experiences be calling for a nationwide ban of what is (when used properly) a very effective method of pest control.

 

[Patterdale]

Last year I had to go to my doctors and get a course of temazepam due to one going off all night. My nerves were in shreds.

Ok, I'm off before saying something I'll regret....

*backs out of thread shaking head in disbelief*

 

[OWLIE185]

The issue with these gas gun bird scarers is that some of them are placed adjacent to public rights of way and left on continually 24/7. They can not only be heard outdoors but also indoors and when they are exploding 24/7 this is not fair to people or their pets
Unfortunately there is no legislation that is directed at these devices which means that even the local authorities have little or no power to take action against landowners/farmers who are causing a nuisance with these devices.
It is not a matter of getting used to these devices if they explode in close proximity to a horse they will scare it as is there purpose to scare animals away.
Some of you may recall the occasion when the Queen was riding Burmese (An ex Canadian police Horse) at Trooping of the Colour and someone fired a starting pistol at her and even her horse reacted.
Farmers, landowners and Contractors have a duty of care to other people in the countryside and the fact they produce food does not discharge them of this moral duty as it is neither that of the owners of a food processing company.
Everyone has a right to live in the countryside and their environment should also be respected.
Farmers, Landowners and Contractors that are using these devices irresponsibly are doing themselves or their colleagues no favours as they will get these devices banned.

 

[RunToEarth]

The issue with these gas gun bird scarers is that some of them are placed adjacent to public rights of way and left on continually 24/7. They can not only be heard outdoors but also indoors and when they are exploding 24/7 this is not fair to people or their pets
Unfortunately there is no legislation that is directed at these devices which means that even the local authorities have little or no power to take action against landowners/farmers who are causing a nuisance with these devices.

Noise nuisance is generally treated as an environmental health matter by the local council who will deal with any complaint and determine whether it is in fact a nuisance under the statutory definition, and whether the farmer is in fact running his business in accordance with best practical means, just as a contractor on a building site would. I would, of course, advocate speaking to landowners directly to resolve the issue before reporting them to environmental health!

 

[Carlosmum]

2 links for you... first is NFU code of practice

second is confusing!

http://www.nfuonline.com/assets/4662

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploa...ollution-from-propane-gas-guns-and-policy.pdf

 

[Nicnac]

Agree that they shouldn't be on 24/7, but also agree they should be allowed. Last year I got a phone call from one of my offices in deepest, darkest Kent which is in the middle of fields saying someone was shooting and they were scared. Went down there and it was bird scarers going off in all the fields around. The ponies and horses in the surrounding fields didn't blink an eye at them.

Very sad that Owlie185 had such an awful experience.

OP - what have you done about speaking with your neighbours about this? Sorry if you have said that you have spoken to them, but couldn't see anything.

Also your OP is rather disingenuous in that you state a case for legislation whereas petition is for a ban.

I have looked at the petition and will not sign it nor promote it on Facebook as it calls for a ban which is frankly ridiculous. Legislation to stop 24/7 use as can understand they must be annoying at night if in close proximity to where you sleep and how far from public bridleways they should be placed; yes. A ban; No.

 

[Pale Rider]

Signed definitely think they should be banned, enough noise pollution without these ineffective nuisances. I know some farmers use them just to annoy neighbours. Horses, birds and everything gets used to them and ignores them. The countryside is in a bad enough state without these.

 

[Wagtail]

Ok, I'm off before saying something I'll regret....

*backs out of thread shaking head in disbelief*

Like you just have done. Disgraceful.

 

[Goldenstar]

I am arguing on Owlies thread about this but when you lot are victorious and we cease growing food in this country so you can play in the park that is your idea of the countryside where will you get your hay and straw from?

But why make it more difficult for people to shoot Pigeons ?
There's no need for that , which is what stirred all this up.
It's a mad idea which will lead to more use of bird scarers which are not nice for anyone to live near .
If you wish to cease producing food that's fine do so others will do so on your land .the countryside is not exclusively an industrial landscape others live there and use it and it right we debate how agriculture impacts on those who live around it .
And that sensible policy's are found to find middle ground for all those who live in an area ,decreeing that all other methods of preventing bird nuisance must be tried before shooting is not sensible .

 

[Wagtail]

Nicnac, I do speak to them when one is going off all night. But first I have to find it which means traipsing out at all hours in the dark. There are so many you cannot identify which one it is by sound alone you have to find it, turn it off and then report it to them. The day time ones, I just put up with as I feel that making complaints to neighbours you have to live next to strains relations. They go off at 4 am when the days lengthen because they are on a dawn til dusk sensor, not a timer. If the farmer wants the scarer to be on, that is the time it will start when dawn starts earlier.

I am not asking for a total ban and the petition is titled 'ban' but it does say further down 'The government needs to ban or closely regulate the use of these devices'. That is why I signed it. Had I started a petition myself I would call for official legislation.

 

[Wagtail]

Before the introduction of these cannons was there a food shortage?

 

[RunToEarth]

Before the introduction of these cannons was there a food shortage?

Not a food shortage, the world population was obviously grown considerably in the last few decades, and as a result the methods of farming have changed, along with the land available for farming as opposed to building on and using as secondary flood plain as a result of development.

Due to the demand for alternative fuel, our level of understanding cereal crop rotations and our ever changing dietary needs we have started to grow a lot more OSR which is what pigeons really like. I will say that pigeons will not land in an established crop - they don't like the feeling of the leaves on their wings. Our OSR is past the point where we need gas guns on it but if you are in veg country they keep them going well into spring for the brassicas.

 

[Wagtail]

Not a food shortage, the world population was obviously grown considerably in the last few decades, and as a result the methods of farming have changed, along with the land available for farming as opposed to building on and using as secondary flood plain as a result of development.

Due to the demand for alternative fuel, our level of understanding cereal crop rotations and our ever changing dietary needs we have started to grow a lot more OSR which is what pigeons really like. I will say that pigeons will not land in an established crop - they don't like the feeling of the leaves on their wings. Our OSR is past the point where we need gas guns on it but if you are in veg country they keep them going well into spring for the brassicas.

Yes, it is OSR around us and it's well established. I really wouldn't mind if the guns were used appropriately, but they are not.

 

[Mellis]

Done

 

[Follysmum]

Yes, it is OSR around us and it's well established. I really wouldn't mind if the guns were used appropriately, but they are not.

Exactly. some, not most of the farmers are not interested in discussing. One in particular told my friend to "do one' ( thats the nice phrase) after she politely asked if he could possibly move a gas gun as it was right behind a hedge near a bridleway gate.

 

[EllenJay]

I am not asking for a total ban and the petition is titled 'ban' but it does say further down 'The government needs to ban or closely regulate the use of these devices'. That is why I signed it. Had I started a petition myself I would call for official legislation.

This is something you obviously feel strongly about, therefore why don't you raise your own petition that doesn't ask for a total ban - then maybe you will get more support from the farming community.

Asking for a "ban" on something that can affect other peoples livelihood is just asking for an argument, asking for proper regulation and controls is a different matter

 

[Wagtail]

I am not keen on putting my name to starting a petition as I have to live next to them and it may be misconstrued. And if the attitude of Patterdale is anything to go by then I won't expect any reasonable behaviour.

 

[Maisy]

If you bought a house next to a railway, would you start a petition to ban the trains going past 24 hours a day!?

 

[Wagtail]

If you bought a house next to a railway, would you start a petition to ban the trains going past 24 hours a day!?

I wouldn't buy a house near a railway. I have always lived in the middle of nowhere. Always lived in the countryside. When we bought this place it was quiet. It was a gradual increase in the bird scarers to the ridiculous levels they are at now. I have a business to run too and my liveries complain to me about the bird scarers. But I do not complain unless one is going off through the night. However, I have a right to support a petition to regulate the use of these contraptions. I think they are ruining the countryside which is for everyone to enjoy and be safe in.

If you don't support it, don't sign it.

 

[Maisy]

I wouldn't buy a house near a railway. I have always lived in the middle of nowhere. Always lived in the countryside. When we bought this place it was quiet. It was a gradual increase in the bird scarers to the ridiculous levels they are at now. I have a business to run too and my liveries complain to me about the bird scarers. But I do not complain unless one is going off through the night. However, I have a right to support a petition to regulate the use of these contraptions. I think they are ruining the countryside which is for everyone to enjoy and be safe in.

If you don't support it, don't sign it.

Just to play devils advocate, was there a livery yard there before you bought/moved into your property? Perhaps the farmer in charge of the gas gun is equally as upset at the increased neighing in the area!?

There isn't really a way of turning them off at night unless he goes round and manually does it and the pigeons do a heck of a lot of damage!

 

[Wagtail]

Just to play devils advocate, was there a livery yard there before you bought/moved into your property? Perhaps the farmer in charge of the gas gun is equally as upset at the increased neighing in the area!?

There isn't really a way of turning them off at night unless he goes round and manually does it and the pigeons do a heck of a lot of damage!

If they go off at night we get up and go looking for the offending gun in the fields and turn it off ourselves then report what has happened to the owner of the gun. I have not complained once about them going off in the day. But that doesn't mean I like them. I would like to see legislation to regulate their use to reasonable levels.

The countryside used to be a peaceful place. Horses have been ridden in the countryside for centuries. Why should people be allowed to use these devices without due consideration for others?

Could you sleep with a noise as loud as a shot gun going off every few minutes throughout the night? Do you think it is reasonable that we get woken up earlier and earlier every morning with the dawn chorus of the guns? If you have not experienced it you have no idea how it feels. Sleep deprivation is one of the most effective forms of torture for a reason you know.

I would like to see legislation that allows a timer to override the dawn til dusk sensor so that they do not go off before a reasonable hour (say 7 am in the morning). I would like to see the current code of practice enforceable by law. But obviously, according to those arguing against this on the thread, I am some kind of lesser being who is not entitled to any sleep. Because I am not a farmer.

 

[Marydoll]

Noise nuisance is generally treated as an environmental health matter by the local council who will deal with any complaint and determine whether it is in fact a nuisance under the statutory definition, and whether the farmer is in fact running his business in accordance with best practical means, just as a contractor on a building site would. I would, of course, advocate speaking to landowners directly to resolve the issue before reporting them to environmental health!

Agree with this

 

[RunToEarth]

Wagtail - your circumstances with the going off all night are not normal. My issue is people complaining of them going off in the day time - this is, after all, the countryside.

In your case if it is a regular occurrence and landowners aren't doing anything I would be going going to your environmental health department to ask them to investigate. I'm not sure I would plead sleep deprivation with farmers!

 

[Spring Feather]

according to those arguing against this on the thread, I am some kind of lesser being who is not entitled to any sleep. Because I am not a farmer.

Do none of the 3 farmers live anywhere their farmland? I'm just wondering why it doesn't affect their sleep?

I wouldn't sign a petition for a ban on gas guns sorry. Arable farming is hard enough without losing more of their crops to critters.