Bit advice please

little_critter

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I know this is going to turn into a schooling advice thread, but really I’d just like some advice on bit action.
I currently ride mostly in a NS Turtle top loose ring which he goes nicely in.
When jumping I like to have a little more in the brakes department in case things get a bit too exciting. Mostly it’s not needed but I like to have the option, and I’m also able to ride more positively if I know the brakes work well!
For exciting situations I currently ride in a kimblewick, I switched from a curb chain to an elastic curb because a chain was too much for him (he tucked in too much.....I am very conscious of being soft with my hands)
Unfortunately, even with an elastic curb, the kimblewick tends to make him a bit too low in front for jumping, he goes into jumps a bit too deep and knocks poles. He doesn’t do this so much in the snaffle....but for jumping and especially clinics and exciting situations I would like to ride in a bit more than the snaffle.

So could I have suggestions please for a bit that is a little stronger than the NS Turtle loose ring, but that doesn’t encourage the head to go down or tuck in. The kimblewick with elastic curb is plenty in terms of brakes, but it’s just not quite working out well for jumping in.
 

LegOn

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If they go well in the NS Turtle loose ring, I would go for the same but in the Universal, this gives a little extra brakes without bringing them behind the vertical and I've found it very good!!
 

Roxylola

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I'd try the turtle top universal too. You've got a choice of rings as well, could start on snaffle and swap if you needed a bit more
 

little_critter

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?
I was hoping you wouldn’t say that, the TT universal is flipping expensive!
May I also ask (genuine question, I’d like to understand)
Dutch / 3 ring gags seem to be widely thought to be the work of the devil. But universal bits seem to be widely liked. To me they look nearly identical and I would assume have a very similar action.
So why Dutch gag = bad and Universal = good
Is it the price tag??
 

DirectorFury

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A dutch gag is just a universal with extra steps ;). Both should be used with a curb and two reins, though I've occasionally committed the sin of using a curb and only one rein! The main difference between the two is that doing this on the bottom ring of a universal is much less leverage than the bottom ring of a 3/4 ring dutch gag. I guess with the dutch gag there's always the temptation to move the rein down, whereas in the universal people might try other alternatives first?
 

Roxylola

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Honestly, I don't hate a 3 ring gag, but they're potentially very strong - should be ridden on 2 reins really. A universal is a less severe action
 
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