Bit rubbing corners of mouth.

[littlen]

I've had a nightmare bitting my 5yo. She has hated everything we have put her in so far pretty much. All normal checks done and no issues fine.

She tosses her head around and opens her mouth which is the main issue.

Anyway I've finally found something she was happy ish in. She was settled and comfortable and started to reach into the contact for the first time ever. This lasted a few weeks and it has started rubbing the corners of her lips. They are not sore (I think!) but are like dry chapped flakey skin. She has started head tossing again although not to the extent that she was previously.

Size wise I can't go bigger as it's far too big. She's in a 4.75, 5" slides about and 4.5 is tiny.

Will bit guards help or just make the rubbing worse if there's even less space?

I'm running out of bit options and my instructor is suggesting a flash now as it seems to be habit.

Is it cruel to keep persevering with this bit? It cost £90 which makes it even more annoying!

 

[Annagain]

I'd try slathering her lips in Vaseline every time you ride. When you chop and change bits, they don't get a chance to rub as each one presses in a slightly different place. As soon as you stick to one, it starts rubbing as it's in the same position all the time. My boy needed Vaseline when we finally found a bit to stick with. Over time I used less and less Vaseline until he stopped needing it full stop. It took about 4 months.

 

[ester]

You don't say what you are using?

 

[littlen]

The bit is a bombers loose ring happy tongue.

She is much happier in it, hates an eggbutt. She also hates bits with joints/links...she's very fussy!

 

[ester]

Thats ok, I was mostly just checking if it were nathe as that can set them off as more friction.

That is why I am not sure on bit guards, some people do seem to get on well with the acavallo ones - that go along the ends of the bit too- but part of me thinks that using them/latex will just increase the friction.

What is her saliva production like? if dry I'm wondering if something like gumbits might help.

How about trying a bit butter?

I think I would stick with the bombers for the time being, it is certainly interesting that she was much improved to start with and is now struggling a bit more, so perhaps she is just ultra sensitive lips wise (as it doesn't sound that sore from your description of flakey)

 

[littlen]

At first she accepted it happily.

She is also fine with very little contact however if I take up a stronger hold (i.e. If she's trying to get a bit strong or silly) she seems to fling her head about hence why I think it's an evasion type thing rather than a pain response. She will work nice and forwards into a contact at times but not others depending on her mood!

They aren't bleeding or raw, more chapped than anything else. The skin in the corners has gone white and rough looking.

She doesn't really produce much saliva and never has in any bit we have tried. I don't think I'll ever find a bit she loves but am more trying to find something she won't fight. I'm reluctant to try flash/grackle incase it makes things worse but I mighr have to just to break the habit.

Will look into gumbits and butter!

 

[ester]

I'd agree that I probably wouldn't hit the nosebands just yet, unless to produce a stiller feel but that tends to help those that are very fussy with their mouth which she doesn't sound, just head tossy!

the gumbits etc might be worth trying even if it just gives her something to think about.

We have two beasts, one you can put anything in and he will go fine, his reaction to bits is quite nuanced in its changes. The other has always struggled to be truely happy so it was a case of finding the best for her (she is one of the aforementioned fussy in the mouth ones!)

 

[littlen]

Thankyou ester for your help!

She does tend to open her mouth and did used to constantly get her tongue over the bit lots but we have solved this issue with the bombers as the port completley stops her.

What sort of noseband would help if she was opening her mouth to evade and hence getting strong, something like a drop?

 

[Red-1]

Just a thought, but is her noseband high enough? If not, the bit can pull back and trap some skin between bit and noseband.

I would maybe try removing the noseband and see if the rubbing stops.

 

[littlen]

Red it's just a loose cavesson, would tightening it help? I'll try and put it higher tomorrow.

Her last bit didn't rub at all but she hated it

 

[milliepops]

thanks for this thread OP, I am just wondering whether gumbits might help my welsh with her tension. *ponders*

I find a couple of sugar lumps posted into her mouth while I'm tacking up gets her mouth fairly wet and helps with the lubrication but it wears off fairly quickly. could be a cheap thing to try though.

How much work has she done, OP? only thinking that babies mouths can be very very soft to begin with and while not desirable, sometimes they do get a bit flakey while they "toughen up" for want of a better phrase.

If she's opening her mouth and yawing on the bit I might be inclined to try a drop noseband rather than a flash, you can fit them comparatively loosely and it may be that showing her how to accept the contact quietly without gaping her mouth will alleviate the rubbing issue.

 

[littlen]

I think I might try them Milliepops so will update this if they work!

She hasn't done much at all, very basic schooling and hacking on a loose contact.

She didn't have any rubbing at all with her last bit but it was slightly too big and pulling through her mouth hence why I downsized. It now seems the right sort of size but is rubbing.

I do need to stop the opening mouth though as it's stopping her working properly. She does head toss when she's frustrated. She doesn't do much opening mouth or tossing when she's hacking or doing what she wants it tends to be when she's being asked to something she is unhappy with (such as harder work!)

 

[ester]

She is of course a mare they do tend to like their feelings known , especially about harder work .

Historically I do remember a couple of users on here really rating gumbits. I want to say spotted cat and chloe_ghe.

 

[Sheep]

The acavallo gel bit guards are good, I had a similar issue with a loose ring NS bit and these really helped. The only issue is, you may find they affect the fit a bit.

 

[Baroque]

I have a mare just as you describe yours OP. She also became far more settled in the Bombers happy tongue. The final key for her was to fit a bit lifter. I originally borrowed a friends Micklem bridle which she liked (but I could'nt really afford at the time). I ended up buying a Zilco bit lifter and she has become a different pony. Even the smear of Vaseline at the corners of her mouth were dispensed with after a week or so.

I don't use the lifter to lift very high at all (to be avoided anyway with the shape of the Happy Tongue) it's more a matter of causing the bit to be more stable in her mouth, without strapping her mouth shut.

Maybe worth a trying your girl's case? You have to play around a bit with the fitting to get just that perfect amount of lift. My mare seems to appreciate getting a hint of pressure over her nose before she feels pressure on her tongue. All head tossing and general resentment appears to be gone. At least for now, until she finds something else to be cross about. I do so adore opinionated mares!

 

[McFluff]

I've found Vaseline helps (my mare is a sensitive soul!) and bit butter. I also discovered that her cavesson, while 'loose', seemed to cause her discomfort where it went under the cheek pieces. She went much better without. As I wanted to compete I've ended up in a loose fitted Micklem.

 

[lighter1]

i have always used Vaseline ... the aloe vera lip therapy one in the metal tin seems to work well.....
im not sure that the flash nose band thing would help as its like a quick fix..... as in .... horse opens gob..... flash shuts gob..... horse manages to get tongue out of side of gob.... horse bites tongue which often looks awful and is a small nick.....

if everything is fine and no dental work required.... she might just be being a mare.... which i use the term loosely but ...... some horses are really ridiculously sensitive and really need working in to lower there frame properly..... some times if there is nothing wrong but this.... i would do this and for about 2 weeks....

ride forward and i mean forward....... trot definatly .... then if she does it i would put a sound or word with it.... to break the cycle of the behavior..... if a horse is not comfortable and i mean really not comfy it really really will show you..... its ok being nandy pandy for a while but a good nurse is one that says get up and about and gets you on your feet not leaves you in the bed to sease up!

every time the mare does it..... remember this.....

push forward and really use the leg and aids.... use the voice aid and just keep saying in your head trot forward be really persistent and this might break the cycle completely.... sometimes this is all that is needed.... its like a horse that rears with me .... i will push it fowards into the pace that i was in before and be persistent until it does as i ask.... like trot a circle.... horse rears ..... i will put my leg on it and send it forwards again..... sometimes you have to break the cycle.... Horses are fantastic at teaching us to do stupid things and will allow us to keep doing.... sometimes you have to just be the one above them and say no you dont....

i had a 4 yr old that did this he was a temperamental little ****** at times and to be honest still is in many ways..... although to ride is a dream!


I know not everyone is going to agree with this statement or post but ...... for me it has worked in the past...... I have worked for many dressage trainers and riders out there and we regularly have problems like this which we have to work with.... tbh a NS starter bit worked for many

but we didnt always get sucked into the game playing.... which can occur and i have seen this ha ha ha

and also look at what you are doing whilst she is doing this.... i always found this was when i was warming the horses up if i was being lazy and riding on the track to warm up..... (15 horses a day) some of them i just had to be lazy on tbh and not ride to a full potential more fitness than ridden schooling....

if i had a horse who was being a wally and doing things all the time.... i would do other stuff with it in the school to make it concentrate.... like poles, weiving or similar...... hacking is also great but again be firm when the behavior appears..... its amazing sometimes that this behavior literally phases out if you are persistent!

 

[WelshD]

if everything is fine and no dental work required.... she might just be being a mare.... which i use the term loosely but ...... some horses are really ridiculously sensitive and really need working in to lower there frame properly..... some times if there is nothing wrong but this....

I found exactly this with my little show pony, I spent weeks looking for problems that were in fact not there, weeks later and a couple of hundred pounds on bits, teeth rasping, bit cream, stuff to stop pollen getting in nostrils..... the list goes on.. We established that she is very sensitive and simply when schooling needs the right work for the right amount of time before she stops being all gobby and resist-y (not sure that's a word!)

The more work that was asked of her the harder she found it as she is still learning and unbalanced and the longer it took for her to settle

As time has gone on the schooling has begun to work wonders and it takes much less time to get past the mouthy stage. With a child rider or out on a hack we don't get as much of a problem because not as much is being demanded of her if that makes sense

 

[nato]

Hi - I wrote a blog on this, hope it's OK to share here. http://www.insidetrackeventing.com/2016/06/12/healing-split-mouth/

In summation certain horses are more prone to this, loose rings are a big culprit, as well as happy mouths or rubber bits. I used Acavallo gel bit guards to prevent, piles cream to treat (really!) and bit butter to keep the mouth lubricated. Try different metals too - in the end the Cotswold Sport Bit was really good and he loved the metal, no rubs since and no bit guards used.