Bitchy yards - from the yard owner's point of view

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Crabbypink

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I used to love my yard. Now I hate it. I'm not the perfect yard owner - far from it. But I do try to do a good job. I work llong hours, including weekends, to provide good service, a nice yard. I pour money into the infrastructure of the place, and listen to what liveries want. But I'm ready to pack it all in. I've heard story after story of horrible yard owners - cold, callous and opinionated. But being on the other side of the relationship, I now understand some things that I did not when I was a livery on a yard. There is no excuse for being rude; I try never to be rude to others. But people are rude to me all the time. They arrive early on the yard and bang around, waking me up. Everyone's horse is special. Everyone's horse needs more time, more care, better fields than anyone else's. I've taken down field division tape the day after putting it up, because someone decided their horse actually doesn't need to be on restricted grazing. People group into little cliques, and only ride out with certain others. I'm almost never invited. People want me to organise social events, or shows, or parties, then decide the night before that they'd rather do something else. I've incurred expense for planned activities, that I've never charged through to people who cancel. I've had liveries say nothing to me, then invite someone else to hack out - right in front of me. I've had people leave horse poo on my driveway. Parents who think their kids are flawless. You get the picture.
The next time you see your yard owner, think back on your own behaviour, and evaluate whether you might be the unkind one. I don't want to turn into the yard owner that everyone complains about, but I think it's probably inevitable. Either that, or close down my yard.
 
Yeah I do think yard owners get a rough time. I was annoyed at something that happened at my yard with my horse but although I was angry at the yard owner as I felt he had caused it by doing nothing I didn't say anything as I knew deep down I was being unreasonable and I didn't blame him for not wanting to deal with my horse, he can be an absolute Git when he doesn't want to listen. But he does help out when he can, the other owners get annoyed that their horses are in far away fields, or in fields with not as good grass as some but I think on the whole the place is great. The grass is fine in all fields by the way but my horses field is the biggest, the best grass and furthest away. People complain that the best grass is there but won't walk to it. The YO can't move the grass for you, sorry.
 
firstly-I could never do what you are doing -after years of working on yards and sharing yards other horse owners = stress.

secondly-sounds like you are way too accommodating. Draw up rules, stick to them-anyone not liking it can move on. if you have a good place and the price is right ,you'll have a waiting list for a well run yard where no nonsense is taken and the YO doesnt enter into politics.


when it comes to organising stuff, never put yourself out of pocket-people either pay in full up front, or it doesnt happen.


chin up, not all horse owners are barking mad, most of them but not all ;)
 
I guess us liveries don't even think about it but some very valid points! I wouldn't think to ask my yard manager if she wanted to ride with me as she likes to hack on her own! or so I think! I have hacked with her in the past but it was her doing me a favour as my horse was just coming back into work after being on box rest! so I wonder if your liveries might no know that you'd like to hack out with them! I guess they see you a bit like a boss and I certainly don't ask my boss, at work, if she wants to come out to lunch with me etc!
 
I like to think I'm a good livery. I get on with everyone and I'm very anti-confrontation, I'd rather talk to someone with respect and as an adult cause at the end of the day they're offering me their home for me to enjoy my horse. I could have him at home but I'd miss the social aspect and the hacking buddies. Only time I've ever clashed with my yo is over the haylage. He needs more than they thought (they would give 10kg a day, he needs that in one net!) and I did have to put my foot down about it but other than that I appreciate them very much. They keep a nice tidy safe yard and it's 98% non bitchy. Bitchers don't last very long before they're asked to move on as we like our peace.
 
I'm sorry you've had this experience, I can completely understand why you feel taken for granted. I've never had a YO that has actually ridden, they've all been farmers, but I would ride with you if I were your livery, I hate it when people get left out.

Yards go through stages, ours is quite busy at the moment. Lots of new people, my horse is off work and even when he's not I'm not massively confident so not really masses of fun to ride out with and for various reasons I'm not feeling the most sociable I've ever felt either. They're all very nice but it's easy to feel lost and left behind even though in most cases that's not the intention. Could you maybe organise a ride with them and see what happens?
 
Ive just moved yards and my new YO runs a tight ship, she lays out very clear standards (if your horse makes a mess, clear up etc), and I think that helps stop any selfish behaviour. There were plenty of people on my last yard who thought the poo picking fairy would clear up after their horse! Don't pander to people who want electric fencing up one minute and down the next - smile sweetly and tell them they are very welcome to take it back down again.

If they want social events then suggest they set up a yard committee. You can always be on the committee, but you DONT have to organise everything.

Do you like any of the liveries on your yard? If so, why not ask one or two if they're up for going out for a hack with you? Another livery once told me she didn't think I was into hacking - I love it, but I had a very difficult horse and needed to be babysat. I felt guilty asking people, but once they realised that I had people queuing up to help.

Plus vet any new liveries carefully. I know my new YO checked a few mutual acquaintances before she offered me the space.

But don't give up! We need nice YO in this world or all us liveries would be stuffed!!
 
The best yard I was on was one where the YO stated from the beginning that she would be friendly but would not be my friend. There were very clear rules eg. Pick up any poo your horse does outside of their stable and field. All liveries were treated the same and the yard was run in the best interests of the horse as much as possible.
 
This thread has got me thinking. I have usually been the one asked to accompany people on hacks, but if I wasn't, and I wanted to go, I'd just ask if they minded me tagging along. However, I think it might be different at larger yards where sometimes the YO is seen as quite removed from the liveries on the yard. When I think back to when I was on such a yard, I realise I never saw the YO hacking out with anyone. I think that we should have asked her now, but back then it never occurred to us. I just assumed she didn't hack because she didn't want to.
 
playing devil's advocate here, you sound like a bit of a martyr.
If you break down your complaints it sounds like you just don't have boundaries in place and don't assert your need enough. If you break down what you are complaining about it's fairly easily fixable.

Problem 1
" They arrive early on the yard and bang around, waking me up"
Why on earth don't you specify an opening time that suits you? Or enforce rules on people being respectful of sound levels.

Problem 2
"People group into little cliques, and only ride out with certain others. I'm almost never invited"
I honestly would never have though of inviting a yo for hacks, you kind of assume they have enough horsing on their plate. If you wanted to hack out,m why not ask people or put up a sign saying, for example, 'i am going hacking at 11 on sunday' If people don';t go, maybe they don't like you, which is fine, people don't have to be best friends with their yo. you are there to provide a service, not run the yard as a way to make friends.


Problem 3
"People want me to organise social events, or shows, or parties, then decide the night before that they'd rather do something else. I've incurred expense for planned activities, that I've never charged through to people who cancel"
Why not let others organise events if they want it and just help out in bits, but lave the running to them? I'm secretary of our riding club and people constantly come up and suggest bbqs, and you have tosay 'grand, you organise it and il help out where i can' or else pre-charge. people will always cancel and pull out, you need to pre-empt this.

Problem 4
"I've had people leave horse poo on my driveway. "
Any yard i've been on you get disciplined for this.

5.
"I've had liveries say nothing to me, then invite someone else to hack out - right in front of me"
You don't have an automatic right to be invited on every hack. Sometimes liveries have problems at home, for example, and they might just want to hack out with a close friend and have a rant. Do people genuinely know you want to hack out? Have you ever said light-heartly to them that you would have loved to go?


6.
"Everyone's horse is special."
At the end of the day you are there to provide a service for people who DO think their horse is special and deserves the best. And in their eyes they pay probably a big chunk of their weekly wage keeping their animals. You choice is to either to provide the service or else say its not something you offer. If its unreasonable say no. People will always push for the best deal they can get, its up to you to set your terms.

From a strangers viewpoint a lot of those issues are due to you not communicating what you want, what behaviour you think is acceptable, and what rules you have.

It comes across harder than I meant, but reading from an objective point of view as a fellow business owner, it seems you expect liveries to be half psychic people who all want to be your friend?

The other poster has a good point about YO's being really clear on what they accept and expect. For a 'nice' person this can be difficult but in the long run it makes everyones life easier.
 
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I have been on many yards over the years and would never dream of taking the p. What a shame. I used to try too hard to please everyone in my job until my boss told me that it wouldn't make everyone like me and I just needed to make sure they respected me. It does work and after all you do have the power to tell them to leave if you want
 
OP, I wouldn't do your job for all the tea in China! And I speak as somebody who has only ever been a livery. Trying to please all people all of the time puts you onto a hiding for nothing. As others have said, make rules - this is your home and your business, so you decide what's what and what you're prepared to tolerate from your liveries. The best yard I have been on was one when I chatted over the phone before going to view and the YO laid down her rules for the yard and didn't take any prisoners. I knew what was expected of me and what I could expect in return. Because of that she's always remained friends with her liveries when they moved on (me included). Chin up and be more choosy :).
 
I don't understand this !

On every single yard I have been on the yard owner has been GOD

Every livery has laboured night and day to "get in with the yard owner" and be their best friend

Gifts of cake ... bottles of wine , Christmas and Birthday presents , invitations to dinner ....

All of us were desperate to bond to the yard owner like a Siamese twin !

Am not saying that we weren't pains in the arse though ..

Because we certainly were ...

Especially in the beginning

When we knew less than nothing ... and were very keen to get on !

I have to humbly confess that I was the person who arrived at the yard at 7 .00 am every day and never realised that I was waking everyone up as I noisily said "Good Morning!" to my horse and all the liveries , slammed the car door, mucked out, dropped my pitch fork and clanged and crashed about like an enthusiastic bull in a china shop !

I think the thing to bear in mind , is that liveries need educating

Many of them will be struggling to find their feet in the world of horse ownership . livery yard etiquette and horsy cliques..

They will gravitate to the strongest person ...

You need to set the rules and establish the boundaries and they, like horses will want to be part of your herd !!!
 
I'm super choosy about liveries. Some of them are a bit nuts, but their hearts are in the right place, so I manage the nuttiness! I won't have anyone bitchy or rude - and I have no problem telling them to go!

I also have no issue with telling people off for being messy! I like things tidy and swept and lovely, and get very grumpy if people make a mess and don't clear it up! Grumpy me is not nice to be around!
 
paddi22 said:
playing devil's advocate here, you sound like a bit of a martyr.
If you break down your complaints it sounds like you just don't have boundaries in place and don't assert your need enough. If you break down what you are complaining about it's fairly easily fixable.

Problem 1
" They arrive early on the yard and bang around, waking me up"
Why on earth don't you specify an opening time that suits you? Or enforce rules on people being respectful of sound levels.

Problem 2
"People group into little cliques, and only ride out with certain others. I'm almost never invited"
I honestly would never have though of inviting a yo for hacks, you kind of assume they have enough horsing on their plate. If you wanted to hack out,m why not ask people or put up a sign saying, for example, 'i am going hacking at 11 on sunday' If people don';t go, maybe they don't like you, which is fine, people don't have to be best friends with their yo. you are there to provide a service, not run the yard as a way to make friends.


Problem 3
"People want me to organise social events, or shows, or parties, then decide the night before that they'd rather do something else. I've incurred expense for planned activities, that I've never charged through to people who cancel"
Why not let others organise events if they want it and just help out in bits, but lave the running to them? I'm secretary of our riding club and people constantly come up and suggest bbqs, and you have tosay 'grand, you organise it and il help out where i can' or else pre-charge. people will always cancel and pull out, you need to pre-empt this.

Problem 4
"I've had people leave horse poo on my driveway. "
Any yard i've been on you get disciplined for this.

5.
"I've had liveries say nothing to me, then invite someone else to hack out - right in front of me"
You don't have an automatic right to be invited on every hack. Sometimes liveries have problems at home, for example, and they might just want to hack out with a close friend and have a rant. Do people genuinely know you want to hack out? Have you ever said light-heartly to them that you would have loved to go?


6.
"Everyone's horse is special."
At the end of the day you are there to provide a service for people who DO think their horse is special and deserves the best. And in their eyes they pay probably a big chunk of their weekly wage keeping their animals. You choice is to either to provide the service or else say its not something you offer. If its unreasonable say no. People will always push for the best deal they can get, its up to you to set your terms.

From a strangers viewpoint a lot of those issues are due to you not communicating what you want, what behaviour you think is acceptable, and what rules you have.

It comes across harder than I meant, but reading from an objective point of view as a fellow business owner, it seems you expect liveries to be half psychic people who all want to be your friend?

The other poster has a good point about YO's being really clear on what they accept and expect. For a 'nice' person this can be difficult but in the long run it makes everyones life easier.
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I have to echo this.

I've been on yards where often, you actually just want the YM to manage. If you don't want people to turn out in X weather, say so. If you don't want people on the yard before X time, say so. If you want people to help repair fencing or whatever else, say else And preferably put it in a contract.

But grey area from lack of communication makes it difficult - I for example; will turn my horse out every day unless communicated not to and it's not against the rules. But don't be vague about what you want and tell a few other people but the person you want to change. Because I personally take another livery saying 'Oh, but the YM moaned about people turning out in bad weather ....' is likely to be taken with a pinch of salt as much as the rumour about Fluffy's owner flirting with her farrier who in reality came straight from somewhere non-horsey and just because happened to be wearing lipstick & a v-neck jumper ...

I don't get how liveries riding out with their friends is cliquey. I'm on a large yard but only regularly hack with the same people. Not because I'm part of a 'clique' but it's a combination of A. We tend to ride at a similiar time B. Our horses get on C. We get on as people and D. We are on the whole at a similiar fitness level - 2 of the riders do endurance and another events and the others just enjoy faster and/or longer rides.

Some of these people I socialise with outside of the yard, but I don't think it makes me a bad livery or a cliquey person.

Of course, I'd ride out with someone if they asked if they just wanted to have a slow one or were nervous (I've done it before and would happily do so again) - but equally I don't want every ride to be a slow plod on a loose rein.

If you want to be included, just ask :) I assume others would if they wanted to join us - and they'd be more than welcome (or we could arrange a ride that would suit them)

I think most people just want to turn up, look after their horse and have fun along the way. I've met very few people that genuinely want to cause trouble. But I've seen plenty of drama created by poor communication.
 
Auslander said:
I'm super choosy about liveries. Some of them are a bit nuts, but their hearts are in the right place, so I manage the nuttiness! I won't have anyone bitchy or rude - and I have no problem telling them to go!

I also have no issue with telling people off for being messy! I like things tidy and swept and lovely, and get very grumpy if people make a mess and don't clear it up! Grumpy me is not nice to be around!
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I would say that's the key. Pick your liveries wisely ;)
 
I wouldn't run a livery yard for all the tea in China!
But if you want to, you need to make sure that YOU are in charge. I would be very careful about hacking with liveries or you could find that you have caused a clique, far better imo to put up a sign saying that you are hacking to x at yo'clock, anyone want to join?
 
I have spare stables and grazing, however I won't have liveries again as the extra income isn't worth the grief.
 
You are the business owner, not their mate. Can you be mates with people who pay you?

Fix firm rules eg when they can come on the yard. Enforce them.

Communicate effectively, leave no-one out.

Walk the land/yard and repair stuff asap. Get rid of the barbed wire!

Don't take the piss charging stupid amounts for minor crap.

Personally, were I a yard owner, I would do full livery only. DIY pays peanuts and causes no end of hassle. I think a lot of bad feeling is caused by new rules suddenly being imposed or new 'Queen Bees' arriving and trying to run the place. I speak from bitter experience as a livery.
 
Hmm, I think YOs are like liveries: some are bonkers, some are great, and most are somewhere in between. Human... I've certainly known some who created more issues than they solved - mostly by not being clear about rules, stating one thing before you move on and changing their rules down the line without communicating it, or by fostering cliques. My current YO borrows one of mine to come hacking with us, and we invite the whole yard. It's a nice set up. I regularly hack with one of the liveries, and I'm indoctrinating the other to polocrosse. I'd hope if the YO had any issues with times, noise or mess, she'd just say so, and we could sort it...
 
JFTD said:
I've certainly known some who created more issues than they solved - mostly by not being clear about rules, stating one thing before you move on and changing their rules down the line without communicating it, or by fostering cliques.
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Yup, this has caused huge issues on yards I've been on.
 
RULES! Every Yard needs rules, and a signed contract.... you can even have bullet point 'if your horse poop's on yard, please clear it up'.

You wouldn't have smoking on the yard or kids under 'x' age unaccompanied, so why not put rules in place to keep everyone happy, safe and knowing their boundaries!

Your life would be easier, but actually the liveries life would be easier as well.

If you remove some of the obstacles in the form of a 'rule' that could be the cause of future issues, then it makes it a nicer place for all.
 
I think you have to think hard why you are doing this. If its for money, you are just going to have to think of it as a business and just get tougher.
If there is not a rule of what time they can start work in the morning, make one or else think if they pay their bills on time is that what I have to put up with.
I would not organise activities unless they make you money, any extras you charge for.
The hacking out. They may want to hack with a friend and they do not see you as a friend or just that your hack is faster/slower than they want to go. I can understand you being frustrated but its their hobby and they do not have to include you. If you stayed in a hotel you would not expect to entertain the owner.
If you are having liveries for company, and its your home, I would have a clean sweep, and be a bit more selective.
I had a friend who started a livery yard from scratch, brand new stables, lovely facilities, they did not really need the money so invited people they knew, and yes there are were problems.
Its just the nature of people. Kids are noisy and their parents think they're perfect. People tend to be naturally selfish and untidy, walk round the lorry lines at any show or go in the collecting ring and look at the rubbish and the selfish behaviour that goes on. If people can make life easier for themselves they will, even if its a the expense of others.
Do not think I do not have sympathy for you, I have had couple of liveries that have taken the p, and I just get rid, life too short and the money isn't good enough. I can rent out a room for five times the money and less aggravation.
 
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Crabbypink said:
I'm not mates with them. Believe me.
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Yet you want them to invite you on hacks?

YO you do need a bit of an us/them divide, simply because you need to be seen as a rule enforcer. As it stands they probably see you as a pushover – you are putting up tape and taking it down on a liveries whim, planning events for them and having your yard left a mess.

I am friendly to everyone but mainly ride alone or with my sister or a friend in the village. If someone was to want a restricted paddock then I would give them the go ahead to buy the stakes and install it, if they couldn’t then I would do it and charge as it isn’t included in my livery package. I am nobodies event planner, if I am going to a fun ride I may put a note on the board if anyone wanted to come around with me but they arrange their own transport and entries!

Good luck with your yard.
 
I've posted a few times about how much I love my livery yard. I've been there 14 years and never plan on leaving. It's very laid back. We do count YO as a friend and I did ride out with her before her horse retired but we also respect that we're effectively guests in her home. Official rules are minimal. We're all reasonable adults and can be trusted to behave like them. Having said this, YO's word is final and nobody would question it - if we're told the horses are to go the bottom fields at the weekend, they go (even though we dread the half mile walk down a steep hill to catch them and the walk back up!).

The key to this is the YO is very good at choosing the right liveries. I've seen people come to visit/enquire and she's turned them away straight away as she has this 6th sense. I've often heard on the grapevine that these people are then causing trouble elsewhere! When people do arrive, they fit in effortlessly and, if they keep their horses they stay at the yard. People only leave if they give up riding, their horses die or they move out of the area. The result is a very stable environment with happy horses and happy owners. In the 14 years I've been there I think there have been about 6 or 7 new liveries arrive.

Maybe now's the time to get really tough on the liveries you have - if they toe the line - great, if not they're gone and you can choose your next ones far more carefully. Good luck.
 
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