Bitless Bridles & Competing

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So a random thought has popped into my head! Most/all competitions do not allow you to compete without a bit. But what if you had a bit in but didn't have the reins attached to it? Such as - putting a head slip and snaffle on with a bitless bridle so technically the bit is there but not in use? I have previously shown with a bitted in-hand bridle but the lead rein on the noseband as the pony didn't need the control from the mouth but her head didn't look right without the bit.

I have never looked into bitless, never had a need to but I am bored and the thought popped into my head!
 
BE allow bitless for SJ an XC but not for dressage (I would imagine because 'acceptance of the bit' (ie strap mouth horribly tightly shut around painful gob full of metal and pull head into chest) is part of the 'game' of dressage?)
http://www.britisheventing.com/asp-...spx?topicid=6916&section=00010001000200490001

ETA: you can sometimes compete HC (ie turn up, get a mark for a test etc but not get rosettes/qualify for stuff) bitless in dressage I think

ETA 2: From BD Rule book: "
130.Bridles
A bridle with a bit is compulsory and must be used in the conventionally accepted
manner. "

So, I'm thinking only places where you're allowed to compete HC or local shows not run under rules
 
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I don't know the answer to the question,but I have to admit that the rules on bits and competing are really starting to bother me. In the Oxford English dictionary, the definition of dressage is 'the art of riding and training a horse in a manner that develops obedience, flexibility and balance'. The scales of training are rhythm, suppleness, contact/connection, impulsion, straightness and collection. Even where it refers to contact it refers to a light, even, elastic feel, achieved by the legs and seat, not the hands. It does not mention a bit when referring to the principles of training, it is only the competition rule book that brings this in to bare. For some reason traditionalists look at the rulebook and not the description of the scales of training every time the bitted vs bitless training argument is had. If I can achieve all of those things without a piece of metal in my horses mouth and its jaw strapped shut, why am I banned from competing? And if I am unable to achieve true rhythm, suppleness/contact/impulsion/straightness/collection then surely the judging system will find me out?

the reason it has bothered me if that on Friday I was working my little horse, having a lesson and he was going tremendously well, I have never felt him go so well. As I brought him out, there was a girl on the yard who works on a dressage yard elsewhere, and she was shocked that i would ride in a bitless bridle. She said there was no way she would dream of riding any of the dressage horses without a bit as she would have no control. It made me think hang on a second, isn't the point of training dressage that you have a supple obedient horse??!! And its not like I own a plod, he is a sharp, hot little horse. It boggles my mind. And i'm by no means saying that everyone should ride bitless, it's just sad that the one sport that prides itself on harmony with the horse is the sport that is least flexible to permitting a riding style that would actually highlight the training of the horse properly if done well.

For me having a bit in the mouth but no reins attached is a starting point/a transition, but it still requires the metal in the mouth, which my horse does not seem to enjoy, so I wouldn't compete even if it was allowed this way. (I sound like a hippie, i'm not, I have nothing against people riding bitted, but for my horse in particular bitless works better, he is happy, so I would rather not compete than go back to a bit.)

Fortunately for me I have a lovely dressage instructor who believes you should ride the horse and not the head, and so is happy to train me bitless (or tackless) so I can progress my training without any bias from her.
 
I mostly compete bitless.

BE (bar the dressage phase) and BS. I use a flower hackamore for SJ (very mild hackamore) and a Dr Cooks bitless for xc.

I actually read about someone doing something similar to what you're suggesting - someone (not sure who) was competing Grand Prix and had one of his reins attached to both the noseband and the bit to transfer some of the pressure but he got caught and was eliminated.
 
GirlFriday said:
(I would imagine because 'acceptance of the bit' (ie strap mouth horribly tightly shut around painful gob full of metal and pull head into chest) is part of the 'game' of dressage?)
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Do you really think that this is what dressage is all about? I find it terribly sad that people think like this, because a small minority abuse their horses in this way.
I have no particular leanings either way. Horses can go beautifully bitless, just as they can go beautifully bitted. I would welcome a rule change to allow bitless bridles in dressage, because an increasing amount of people would like to compete bitless, but I would continue to ride my horse in whatever suited us best.
 
Well, if a horse is safe to take XC bitless I'd expect in almost all cases the same horse/rider combo to be fine in an arena. Which kind of implies that the bit is 'part of the game'. In the same way that spurs are compulsory beyond a certain level. Dressage, under current rules, does seem to be very focussed on a lot of ways of jabbing ones horse with various bits of metal - and then have a lot of fairly successful riders who complain when they get eliminated for making their horses bleed with them. Which seems pretty far from the harmonious healthy training it was supposed to be based on.
 
KatPT said:
I don't know the answer to the question,but I have to admit that the rules on bits and competing are really starting to bother me. In the Oxford English dictionary, the definition of dressage is 'the art of riding and training a horse in a manner that develops obedience, flexibility and balance'. The scales of training are rhythm, suppleness, contact/connection, impulsion, straightness and collection. Even where it refers to contact it refers to a light, even, elastic feel, achieved by the legs and seat, not the hands. It does not mention a bit when referring to the principles of training, it is only the competition rule book that brings this in to bare. For some reason traditionalists look at the rulebook and not the description of the scales of training every time the bitted vs bitless training argument is had. If I can achieve all of those things without a piece of metal in my horses mouth and its jaw strapped shut, why am I banned from competing? And if I am unable to achieve true rhythm, suppleness/contact/impulsion/straightness/collection then surely the judging system will find me out?

the reason it has bothered me if that on Friday I was working my little horse, having a lesson and he was going tremendously well, I have never felt him go so well. As I brought him out, there was a girl on the yard who works on a dressage yard elsewhere, and she was shocked that i would ride in a bitless bridle. She said there was no way she would dream of riding any of the dressage horses without a bit as she would have no control. It made me think hang on a second, isn't the point of training dressage that you have a supple obedient horse??!! And its not like I own a plod, he is a sharp, hot little horse. It boggles my mind. And i'm by no means saying that everyone should ride bitless, it's just sad that the one sport that prides itself on harmony with the horse is the sport that is least flexible to permitting a riding style that would actually highlight the training of the horse properly if done well.

For me having a bit in the mouth but no reins attached is a starting point/a transition, but it still requires the metal in the mouth, which my horse does not seem to enjoy, so I wouldn't compete even if it was allowed this way. (I sound like a hippie, i'm not, I have nothing against people riding bitted, but for my horse in particular bitless works better, he is happy, so I would rather not compete than go back to a bit.)

Fortunately for me I have a lovely dressage instructor who believes you should ride the horse and not the head, and so is happy to train me bitless (or tackless) so I can progress my training without any bias from her.
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Well said, an intelligent and thoughtful reply.

Go with what the horse goes best in. My pony is currently ridden in a bit, but we can't do competition dressage in it as it is an 'illegal' ported snaffle - it happens to fit his mouth anatomy better than a jointed one. For me, as I'm old and done the competion thang, I just accept it and carry on having fun at home but I can understand the frustration.
 
GirlFriday said:
Well, if a horse is safe to take XC bitless I'd expect in almost all cases the same horse/rider combo to be fine in an arena. Which kind of implies that the bit is 'part of the game'. In the same way that spurs are compulsory beyond a certain level. Dressage, under current rules, does seem to be very focussed on a lot of ways of jabbing ones horse with various bits of metal - and then have a lot of fairly successful riders who complain when they get eliminated for making their horses bleed with them. Which seems pretty far from the harmonious healthy training it was supposed to be based on.
Click to expand...

Wow, sweeping statement much. Even a bitless bridle is awfully damaging in the wrong hands or fitted poorly.
 
Batgirl said:
Wow, sweeping statement much. Even a bitless bridle is awfully damaging in the wrong hands or fitted poorly.
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Quite! Some of the hackamore designs have the potential to be extremely strong so let's not get too misty eyed about all horses going xc bitless in total harmony and lightness. I can only think that it's a fundamental lack of understanding about the sport of dressage that leads to such black and white opinions. No strapping mouths shut or hauling/stabbing going on here...

I don't know whether it's a mismatch between scales of training & rules - more that the rules create some kind of level playing field within which to demonstrate achievement of the SoT? I think there are moves towards being more open to different kinds of tack etc so it may happen in the future, but I wouldn't be holding my breath if I was a bitless rider :rolleyes:
 
milliepops said:
Quite! Some of the hackamore designs have the potential to be extremely strong so let's not get too misty eyed about all horses going xc bitless in total harmony and lightness. I can only think that it's a fundamental lack of understanding about the sport of dressage that leads to such black and white opinions. No strapping mouths shut or hauling/stabbing going on here...

I don't know whether it's a mismatch between scales of training & rules - more that the rules create some kind of level playing field within which to demonstrate achievement of the SoT? I think there are moves towards being more open to different kinds of tack etc so it may happen in the future, but I wouldn't be holding my breath if I was a bitless rider :rolleyes:
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For me its not that all dressage riders strap mouths shut and haul on faces, of course you don't, most people are lovely kind riders. But it's still beyond me as to why a large part of the dressage world is still fixated on 'acceptance of the bit' rather than acceptance of the contact, and has not evolved to see that all of the principles of dressage training can be achieved bitless by the right rider (I am by no means saying I am the right rider to demonstrate this - my horse and I are far from perfect!).

You are absolutely correct to say that abuse of the bitless bridle also exists, for my own part I realised that a plain rope bridle is far too severe on my horse when used with a contact, as it distributes pressure over a very small surface area. I had to find a system that worked with a gel pad to dissipate the pressure. I think it would still be possible to standardise tack so that you have the equivalent of a snaffle - a basic sidepull, no tightening action or lever action.

I certainly won't be holding my breath! Fortunately for me, I don't mind not competing but I do love to train as if I would compete.
 
;) Kat it's not you who seems to have black and white opinions ;) and you make valid points re sidepull etc.

I think people talk about acceptance of the bit because for the last zillion years, competition dressage under the accepted rules has equated acceptance of contact with acceptance of the bit, because the rules as they stand mandate a bit. I think that's a simple cause-effect relationship rather than anything else, certainly that's why I would read the 2 as interchangeable.
 
If you want to play the game (competition dressage) you have to abide by the rules, which are there in part to assure a level playing field for all. A well trained horse should be rideable in whatever equipment it is put in, so 4 and a half minutes in a bit shouldn't be too much of a challenge: you can ride it any way you like at home. The bit VS. bitless debate is simply unwinnable, particularly as the "pure" bitless people are so convinced of their superiority (based on what I'm not quite sure), just like the treeless/shoeless/whipless/spurless/out-24/7 brigade.

All competitive horse sports are guilty of questionable practices, I wouldn't single out dressage in particular.
 
I think if bitless were to be introduced it would have to be very limited - finding the 'snaffle' version of a bitless bridle - i.e. I used to SJ and XC in a hackamore, it has heavy leverage action and wouldn't fit with what dressage aims to achieve. As someone points out using a rope halter puts pressure across a really narrow area. If a consensus could be reached on what the equivalent of a snaffle does in bitless world there would be a chance of progression. There is a huge list of bitless bridles such as the flower, hackamore, dr cooks etc that all use leverage or tightening to achieve control that should not IMO be allowed in dressage.
 
Cortez said:
If you want to play the game (competition dressage) you have to abide by the rules, which are there in part to assure a level playing field for all. A well trained horse should be rideable in whatever equipment it is put in, so 4 and a half minutes in a bit shouldn't be too much of a challenge: you can ride it any way you like at home. The bit VS. bitless debate is simply unwinnable, particularly as the "pure" bitless people are so convinced of their superiority (based on what I'm not quite sure), just like the treeless/shoeless/whipless/spurless/out-24/7 brigade.

All competitive horse sports are guilty of questionable practices, I wouldn't single out dressage in particular.
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I think this is part of my frustration is not so much that I want bitless to be allowed in competition (as I don’t compete so don’t really care) or questioning the legitimacy of existing practices in dressage or whatever sport, but more that a lot of horse people think it is impossible to ride a horse in a correct way of going unless it has a bit in its mouth, saying they would not be able to control it. To my way of thinking that means their dressage training is reliant on the bit rather, which I’m not sure it should be. As you have said above, a well trained horse should go well in either, quite possibly the reason my horse didn’t go well bitted is that my hands weren’t good enough at the time, my hands are now much better and I have a better feel for what I’m wanting, so maybe if I put a bit back in him he would be perfectly happy in it. It feels a little bit harsh being labelled as part of a brigade...it’s easy for me to be pro bitless as I have just one one horse who happens to go well bitless, id probably be worse than useless riding any other horse! :)
 
KatPT said:
I think this is part of my frustration is not so much that I want bitless to be allowed in competition (as I don’t compete so don’t really care) or questioning the legitimacy of existing practices in dressage or whatever sport, but more that a lot of horse people think it is impossible to ride a horse in a correct way of going unless it has a bit in its mouth, saying they would not be able to control it. To my way of thinking that means their dressage training is reliant on the bit rather, which I’m not sure it should be. As you have said above, a well trained horse should go well in either, quite possibly the reason my horse didn’t go well bitted is that my hands weren’t good enough at the time, my hands are now much better and I have a better feel for what I’m wanting, so maybe if I put a bit back in him he would be perfectly happy in it. It feels a little bit harsh being labelled as part of a brigade...it’s easy for me to be pro bitless as I have just one one horse who happens to go well bitless, id probably be worse than useless riding any other horse! :)
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If it's any consolation, I don't think of you as part of a "brigade". I do think that a lot of people who are seriously into riding bitless are somewhat responsible for creating that feeling amongst those who still use bits, in the same way that some who choose not to shoe their horses are somewhat responsible for the "barefoot Taliban" label - because in both cases, they are so vociferous about how awful bits are/how terrible shoes are, that they make people who still bit/shoe get defensive.
I'm all for what works for my horse. He has shoes in front at the moment, and none behind. Sometimes he wears a bit, sometimes he doesn't wear a bridle at all. I'm experimenting with bitless at the moment, to see if I can still get the same feel from him whilst schooling - it's a work in progress, but so far, so good.
I saw a video on Facebook last night, of someone doing tempi changes with a glass of wine in one hand - I've challenged myself to do that before the year is out. Quite tempted to see if I can do it without a bit in his mouth too!
 
milliepops said:
Quite! Some of the hackamore designs have the potential to be extremely strong so let's not get too misty eyed about all horses going xc bitless in total harmony and lightness.
Click to expand...
My point was that if a horse and rider *do* go well bitless xc it seems a shame they can't also compete bitless for the dressage phase. It specifically means that bits are part of the sport of dressage. Obviously one can provide lousy horse care with a broom - doesn't mean that others shouldn't be allowed to use them to sweep the yard, nor that everyone should have to use them!
 
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