Bits - what are people's thoughts on this video?

I think it is sensationalist and heavily biased towards anti-bit movements.
I think it contains relevant messages but that they need to be presented in a much more balanced way.
I think some horses genuinely struggle with bitting.
I also think some horses have to endure poor riding which may look like bitting issues whereas it's more rider issue.
 
Yep, very good practical demonstration, its amazng how few horses really object strongly to bitting, obviously riders with good hands barely use the pain aspects, but it has to be said that an awful lot of riders these days use the reins to haul on the mouth, and I have been present when a Senior BHS /Instructor his AI pupils to make sure the owner was "impressed" with their riding,. Well, as an experienced rider myself, personally, I am impressed by a quiet rider who asks a horse to work in, not to impress the damnded owner, but to school the damned horse!

I like the loose ring starter bit by Neu Schule, a thick lozenge type bit, never a jointed snaffle, which has a nutcracker action and should only be used by experienced rider with light hands, and who gain no benefit from it anyway.
I was standing by an owner [of several racehorses] as he came to see his latest purchase [a nutter], we had one of the best riders on board, and things were going OK, owner suggested the horse needed a better rider, Where we would get a lightweight with ten years as an amateur lady jockey, experienced in the point-to point field and higher level Pony Club qualifications, I don't know.
Rant over
 
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It's certainly very thought provoking. I'm not too sure what I think to be honest. Traditionally we do know that bits cause pain and dental problems and personally I think every rider should work towards calm, soft and sympathetic hands - not the sawing, hanging on, jabbing and dragging that sadly is so often seen, most markedly for me by high level show jumpers who also have so much leather on the horse that it looks like it's wearing the whole tack shop - tbh it's usually small females on massive horses from what I've seen, but the men can be just as bad at yanking the horses head round corners. (I'm not singling them out because they annoy me - just I've seen more of it in that discipline than any other.) I also think that we should always use the mildest bit possible, although I also am aware that even that may be problematical if a rider is unbalanced or heavy handed. Not only that but I absolutely hate those crank nosebands that let you clamp you horses mouth shut, even ill-fitting drop or flash nosebands get my goat too. Which as the video so ably demonstrates just makes the pain of a bad bit and/or rider even worse. But, on the flip side traditional bitless bridles can also cause pain and evasions if riders aren't proficient enough to control their hands and dare I say it tempers. So whichever way you look at it, pain can result from bad hands and riding, I think we just need to be careful, be aware and be the best riders that we can be - oh and chuck the fashion book out of the window - fads for bits and tack come and go, back in the day it was three ring gags and now it seems to be Micklem bridles. Me I'm a bit old school - keep it simple and use only what you need, don't just add stuff just because its the latest thing and 'everyone is using it'.
 
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I'm not really familiar with the majority of bits available though I felt she spoke a lot of sense, can't quite get all the people who ride with a flash etc, are they really needed?
Both mine and my friends strong cobs don't have a nose band at all though they both use waterfords, again not everyone's cup of tea, friends mare would tank off and mine had big cheek pieces though it was a snaffle action, both are easier to handle but more importantly seem to be more relaxed in the mouth, sorry if this doesn't make sense but I don't have years of experience so not sure how to word it better.

Good luck in your research.
 
Interestingly following on from a driving bit question I watched some videos of Barry Took, all his driving horses go in soft rubber bits even those that have bolted in the past.
 
I think it sensationist too .
I think it's easy to get dragged into this anti this anti that stuff with horses .
and boy what nasty bits ,does anyone use bits like the ones she picked .

Most horses who are well started by people who know what they are doing don't have huge bitting issues .
It's a question of knowing what your doing and picking the right bit for each horse.
I love it when they present stuff like it's a revelation er yes that's what a horses Skull looks like .
And I worry that a message like that blames the equipment so if the rider changes the equipment it will be ok but it won't they will just be a bad rider who using different equipment .
 
Well, I think the majority of riders, if asked to draw the lower and upper skull of a horse, with a brief description of the palate and dentition, and the action of the bit would struggle.
It may be something they have not thought about, just as many have no idea about the various methods of transferring drive from the engine, via the crankshaft of the engine to the road wheels of their car.
 
Goldenstar said:
I think it sensationist too .
I think it's easy to get dragged into this anti this anti that stuff with horses .
and boy what nasty bits ,does anyone use bits like the ones she picked .

Most horses who are well started by people who know what they are doing don't have huge bitting issues .
It's a question of knowing what your doing and picking the right bit for each horse.
I love it when they present stuff like it's a revelation er yes that's what a horses Skull looks like .
And I worry that a message like that blames the equipment so if the rider changes the equipment it will be ok but it won't they will just be a bad rider who using different equipment .
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^^THIS!

They key is to work with the horse to find the best match, and then teach it not to fear the contact but to take it and work through it so you can give gentle refined aids. This takes much quiet study on the rider's part.

Depends who you surround yourself with, the extent to which you will see the success or otherwise in this regard. Lots of (esp leisure) horses effectively learn to tuck behind the contact rather than work *to* it.
 
milliepops said:
^^THIS!

They key is to work with the horse to find the best match, and then teach it not to fear the contact but to take it and work through it so you can give gentle refined aids. This takes much quiet study on the rider's part.

Depends who you surround yourself with, the extent to which you will see the success or otherwise in this regard. Lots of (esp leisure) horses effectively learn to tuck behind the contact rather than work *to* it.
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That's correct, and you can't blame them, and this is when the search for the perfect bit starts all over again.
 
Exploding Chestnuts said:
That's correct, and you can't blame them, and this is when the search for the perfect bit starts all over again.
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well yes, but also the rider has to learn how to give the horse a contact that is forward feeling and inviting, rather than negative and pulling backwards to get the horse into an outline. Any bit that essentially suits the horse can be used for either purpose, it depends on the education and sensitivity of the hands on the end of the reins.
 
Some nasty western bits there....and seeing as they are supposed to be ridden on a loose rein I've never really understood why they have to be so severe.
The question really is whether you ride from the seat and legs or rely on the hands.
 
The only thing that really matters is what is on the OTHER end of the reins.....that, and how well the horse is trained to respond to what he feels in his mouth. Anything on the horses head/in his mouth is going to be awful if the rider isn't knowledgable/capable.
 
Cortez said:
The only thing that really matters is what is on the OTHER end of the reins.....that, and how well the horse is trained to respond to what he feels in his mouth. Anything on the horses head/in his mouth is going to be awful if the rider isn't knowledgable/capable.
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Oh, I don't know, there are some absolutely heinous bits which shouldn't come within spitting distance of a horse on the US market, usually marketed for barrel racers or reining horses, not forgetting the infamous Grissom bits created for Big Lick TWHs.
 
Cortez said:
The only thing that really matters is what is on the OTHER end of the reins.....that, and how well the horse is trained to respond to what he feels in his mouth. Anything on the horses head/in his mouth is going to be awful if the rider isn't knowledgable/capable.
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That's only partly true, a bit unsuitable for the horses mouth conformation will never be comfortable.
 
As long as there is nothing spikey or sharp in the horse's mouth (and yes, I know these things exist), the bit can't hurt the horse until someone pulls on the reins. Properly used, on a trained horse even the western bits that get so many people overexcited on this side of the world are not "cruel" per se. A lovely mild snaffle is very often an instrument of torture if the person hauling away on it (often through the pulley of running martigale rings) is uneducated, or simply doesn't care.

*Grissoms are simply long shanked curbs with chain mouthpieces and swept arms, I have (very carefully) ridden TWH's in them without distress to the horse. I wouldn't use one myself, but they are no worse than many of the elevator bits.
 
I agree with the general consensus that it is a biased video. Also, the bits in the video (double twisted wire, high port shanked) aren't commonly used over here. I do find it quite irksome that bitless is considered kinder yet the direct pressure many bitless contraptions put onto the delicate nose area is huge and which ,unlike the tongue, is not fleshy and yeilding so it's much harder for the horse to evade the direct pressure of a bitless set up (not that any horse should be ridden poorly or painfully to create the evasion in the first place!)

What I would like to see is the long term effect of bitless options on the horse - hackamores, side pulls, stiff bosals and ever dr cooks, i'm sure there would be just as much if not more damage but to the nose not the mouth. I don't know if anybody has seen but there is a video where Barry Hook makes a woman put her finger between her horses nose and dr cook bitless bridle to show her how sharp that can be!
 
Thanks, everyone. My mare absolutely hates anything metal, no matter what shape, thickness, joint it is. She will just about put up with a flexible mullen mouth bit so long as it is not too hard or thick. She is most comfortable in a rope halter, but I obviously couldn't do dressage in that. I do think many bits can be exceedingly uncomfortable for the horse, particularly if a firm contact is taken up, no matter how good the rider's hands. I think that over time, the nerves become deadened in many cases. If you think about putting concentrated pressure on any part of your body such as in a steady constant rein contact over an area such as the tongue. It's going to cut off/reduce the blood supply, that's only logical.
 
Merlod said:
What I would like to see is the long term effect of bitless options on the horse - hackamores, side pulls, stiff bosals and ever dr cooks, i'm sure there would be just as much if not more damage but to the nose not the mouth. I don't know if anybody has seen but there is a video where Barry Hook makes a woman put her finger between her horses nose and dr cook bitless bridle to show her how sharp that can be!
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Agree.
Every now and then the subject of allowing bitless as an option for competitive dressage comes up.. as do the same old arguments & pictures of horses in an outline in a bitless bridle. There's a reason the horse tucks it's nose in... something to do with a load of pressure from the various bitless bridle designs! It's just changing the point of contact with the horse's head.
I think it's good that people are starting to research this more, as it's good to be properly informed and I'm sure in the future there will be more 'science' around the whole issue... In the meantime best to do everything with a good dose of common sense and sensitivity IMO :)
 
LD&S said:
Interestingly following on from a driving bit question I watched some videos of Barry Took, all his driving horses go in soft rubber bits even those that have bolted in the past.
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To be fair, they also don't work into a contact in the conventional sense. That's not his 'point' or target market.
 
milliepops said:
Agree.
Every now and then the subject of allowing bitless as an option for competitive dressage comes up.. as do the same old arguments & pictures of horses in an outline in a bitless bridle. There's a reason the horse tucks it's nose in... something to do with a load of pressure from the various bitless bridle designs! It's just changing the point of contact with the horse's head.
I think it's good that people are starting to research this more, as it's good to be properly informed and I'm sure in the future there will be more 'science' around the whole issue... In the meantime best to do everything with a good dose of common sense and sensitivity IMO :)
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My old mare definitely preferred an English hackamore to a bit. I trained her up to medium level dressage in it because she was having issues with bits. Finally I found a bit which suited her, the demi anky. So I was able to compete her. But all her training was done in the hackamore and easily translated to the bit. I also always hacked her in the hackamore as she was obviously more comfortable in it than her bit. She took a lot more of a hold in the hackamore though and I couldn't do any exciting work in it as she was too strong. So for cross country she wore her bit. But it showed me, that for her at least, the hackamore was much milder than the snaffle.
 
For her, possibly,... For mine, pressure on the nose gives me a LOT more control than any bit ;) so I'd say a hackamore would be more severe than a snaffle :p

My point was that either type of bridle depend on applying pressure to sensitive structures :)
 
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