Bitting advice?

Kokopelli

Kokopelli

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I've been racking my brain for days and I'm totally stumped!
Basically I need a stronger bit for Andy until schooled him for a bit more but temporarily I really think we need some more brakes as I'm really struggling in a snaffle. He is in a loose ring snaffle with a french link, and has a relatively small mouth. Teeth, back and saddle are fine.

He kind of just runs through my reins and sometimes he put his head up but sometimes he doesn't but he seems to get faster and faster until I have little control (this is due to excitement.) He is failry sensitive so wouldn't like too much in his mouth and he is not very happy about too much poll pressure.

Martingales are a big NO! I had him in a sheepskin noseband for a while but just found out its not PC legal so half the time I won't be able to use as we will be at rallies or other PC events.

So any advice on bits? I want to steer clear of gags and other elevation bits as he has a high head carriage as it is.

Someone recommended me a scourier bit but they sound so harsh in the way they work I wasn't that keen on it.
He only needs something stronger for a little while he is normally fine in the snaffle but for the moments he isn't I do need some breaks so I was thinking something I can use with 2 reins would be good.

ETA: Also been recommended a pelham if I think he will go okay this which mouthpiece would be best? (I'm not a huge fan pf pelhams though)
 
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Does he lean on your hands when he tries to run through the reins? If yes, you could try a Waterford Snaffle.

Another option would be a Wilkie Snaffle as this provide you with more breaks than a standard snaffle but without as much leverage as a gag, so it shouldn't scare him.
 
not sure if this is any use but...im not sure if your lad is the same as mine but i had the same issues where he just had a steam roller trot and was fighting me a lot with his head in the air or just running through the reins, and just fussing so much i couldnt get him settled into a contact at all.


i switched him to a dr cooks bitless and the difference was amazing. without the bit to battle against he just settled so much after a session or two and is much calmer and focused. he has come on leaps and bounds in it, so im hoping that he gets out of some of his autopilot bad habits (giraffe head, shaking, steamrolling) and then i can switch him back into a normal bit again. i havent a clue if this will work but my gut says it will! it better, or else il be back on this thread to see what was suggested!
 
He doesn't lean on you he just runs (its hard to explain)

A friend has a wilkie I could borrow but I don't think he will like the poll pressure from it.

He is happy in the snaffle 90% of the time and is very settles in it and just seems happy but the 10% of the time when he gets excited or worried he's gone and theres not much stopping him. I had to point him at a fence once and another time I circled him to slow him down.
 
He sounds very much like one of mine. He used to run through the bit, with his neck arched and his head tucked in so he was very overbent - he actually felt very light in the mouth but he gave me the feeling that if I used anymore leg I would lose control. I change him to a snaffle with a straight bar mouthpiece to encourage him to 'take the bit' and the improvement has been amazing. I can now put my leg on and ride him forwards into a contact. He no longer overbends, and is now much more relaxed through his head and neck.
 
ShowJumping Superstars said:
He sounds very much like one of mine. He used to run through the bit, with his neck arched and his head tucked in so he was very overbent - he actually felt very light in the mouth but he gave me the feeling that if I used anymore leg I would lose control. I change him to a snaffle with a straight bar mouthpiece to encourage him to 'take the bit' and the improvement has been amazing. I can now put my leg on and ride him forwards into a contact. He no longer overbends, and is now much more relaxed through his head and neck.
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He's not like this either :o

I'm just uploading a video now of one of our moments which isn't helped by the fact I have no stirrups...
 
Your video isn;t available for viewing- think it's your privacy settings.

Our TB does the same- head up and runs through the rein leaving A with minimal control or steering. Essentially, it's been a year of schooling him but we did put him in a martingale and he is always ridden in one unless he's actually doing a dressage test. It is loose enough for him to not really notice it until he does his 'head up and go' trick, at which point he notices there's an extra bit of "no" there! Might be worth a shot- he doesn;t need it anymore really, it's there for safety (there's too much of him to not keep it as a safety measure!).

ETA: The martingale was the advice of a well-respected instructor, and really was the making of them. And when it's taken off he behaves beautifully- he came 2nd in a dressage test the other day, when this time last year he came last by miles!
 
Lolo said:
Your video isn;t available for viewing- think it's your privacy settings.

Our TB does the same- head up and runs through the rein leaving A with minimal control or steering. Essentially, it's been a year of schooling him but we did put him in a martingale and he is always ridden in one unless he's actually doing a dressage test. It is loose enough for him to not really notice it until he does his 'head up and go' trick, at which point he notices there's an extra bit of "no" there! Might be worth a shot- he doesn;t need it anymore really, it's there for safety (there's too much of him to not keep it as a safety measure!).
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If my photobucket wasn't being a pain I could upload it on there :p

We really can't put one on him, he put his head up and just went crazy, I think he didn't like it as it acts on the bit.


Haven't considered kimblewick, might be worth a try thoug but not sure how he will react to curb but trial and error I suppose we have one somewhere so might try it.
 
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Another thing that was suggested to us, which has really helped, is to keep a strong contact and to keep them forwards into that contact all the time.

http://www.youtube.com/user/SomethingsUp55

You can see some of the videos of the horse I was talking about there- when he's being kept forwards and into a firm (elastic) contact he doesn't do the rushing. It felt too fast for A at first, but once you settle into it it just feels more powerful.
 
I can't see the video but if he's ok 90% of the time it'd be a shame to put more in his mouth...What does he do in a martingale? Have you tried a standing rather than a running? How's about a Market Harborough? It'll only come into play when he's chucking his head up and back off as soon as he stops.
 
Lolo said:
Another thing that was suggested to us, which has really helped, is to keep a strong contact and to keep them forwards into that contact all the time.

http://www.youtube.com/user/SomethingsUp55

You can see some of the videos of the horse I was talking about there- when he's being kept forwards and into a firm (elastic) contact he doesn't do the rushing. It felt too fast for A at first, but once you settle into it it just feels more powerful.
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We were doing this in my lesson and when I got it right it worked very well, but in moments whe he goes off suddenly it made things worse. Its so un-natural aswell to push them on when they go too fast but I'm getting there :)
 
Old Bat said:
I can't see the video but if he's ok 90% of the time it'd be a shame to put more in his mouth...What does he do in a martingale? Have you tried a standing rather than a running? How's about a Market Harborough? It'll only come into play when he's chucking his head up and back off as soon as he stops.
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This is my thought aswell but the 10% of the time we are having issues it does need sorting.
I'm not keen on jumping in a standing as I had to re-train a horse ruined by a standing and jumping. Never thought of Market Harborough though is it legal to use at comps?
 
Sadly no but it'd be a useful training aid. Standings are allowed in PC though, and if properly fitted they are very useful and don't interfere with jumping.
 
Old Bat said:
Sadly no but it'd be a useful training aid. Standings are allowed in PC though, and if properly fitted they are very useful and don't interfere with jumping.
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Well it might be handy for schooling and lessons, a friend has one which we could borrow aswell :)

dafthoss said:
how about a running martingale with the plastic rings so it is not as heavy on the rein?
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Would that make much difference?
 
Kokopelli said:
He doesn't lean on you he just runs (its hard to explain)

A friend has a wilkie I could borrow but I don't think he will like the poll pressure from it.

He is happy in the snaffle 90% of the time and is very settles in it and just seems happy but the 10% of the time when he gets excited or worried he's gone and theres not much stopping him. I had to point him at a fence once and another time I circled him to slow him down.
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mine can do this, its not a nice feeling (assuming pain ruled out) its general disobedience and rudeness. What does he do if you immediately put him on a small circle? Mine is the type you cant argue head on with, but I KNOW he can go very well in his snaffle so i wont change it for flatwork. As soon as he does it I have to ask him lots of different questions, keep his mind busy - cirlces, spirals walk-trot transitions, LOTS of them. As soon as he softens and submits you can go back to what you were working on.

Also, before you change the bit, have you tried a different noseband? like a drop?

I find it difficult to hack out in the snaffle tho and we use a martingale and kimblewick for jumping.
 
I dont know but it may be worth a go it seems to work for some and market harbourghs are allowed in BSJA so you may get away with it un affiliated this is what it says in the rule book "A market harbourgh may be used, but only with a plain snaffle, not a gag."
 
NeverSayNever said:
mine can do this, its not a nice feeling (assuming pain ruled out) its general disobedience and rudeness. What does he do if you immediately put him on a small circle? Mine is the type you cant argue head on with, but I KNOW he can go very well in his snaffle so i wont change it for flatwork. As soon as he does it I have to ask him lots of different questions, keep his mind busy - cirlces, spirals walk-trot transitions, LOTS of them. As soon as he softens and submits you can go back to what you were working on.

Also, before you change the bit, have you tried a different noseband? like a drop?

I find it difficult to hack out in the snaffle tho and we use a martingale and kimblewick for jumping.
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He was in a flash when we got him but was much happier when we put him in a plain cavesson, he doesn't open his mouth really.
Circles and turns seem to work well with him and if he does go off I can get him into an outline he is very easy to stop. Perhaps he is setting his neck?

cuppatea said:
is he getting his tongue over the bit at all? A couple of ours like to do this and they then feel a bit like you have described....
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I'm not sure, how can you tell if they have?

dafthoss said:
I dont know but it may be worth a go it seems to work for some and market harbourghs are allowed in BSJA so you may get away with it un affiliated this is what it says in the rule book "A market harbourgh may be used, but only with a plain snaffle, not a gag."
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Thanks for that, might be worth a look into still can't use it for PC though but its a start :)
 
Kokopelli said:
I'm not sure, how can you tell if they have?


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just a feeling on the bit really, unless you see his tongue outside of his mouth that is! Do you have anyone that can stand in with you and watch out for it? easily solved by a tongue port snaffle from old mill if he does rather than go down the noseband route again!
Also, check the corners of his lips, if he pulled that hard whilst racing he may well have split his lips and have a weakness or sensitivity there. You will either feel the cuts (if he's done it again) or the scar tissue from before.
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Baucher snaffle??? (hanging cheek) You get a "little" poll pressure (I know you said he doesnt like poll pressure). You could offset this by spreading the poll pressure with a poll pad / sheepskin etc. It would give you just a little extra control without overbitting him.

What about a double jointed snaffle of some kind? Less likely to incur a nutcracker action in the mouth, which he could also be objecting to...

Just random thoughts... :)
 
Anne_GTI said:
Have you ever tried a Myler bit? Because they are anatomically shaped they are very nice in the mouth of the horse. The bit is easily accepted.
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Perfect English Anne. :) Good thought. My youngster is in a double jointed Myler. You can get dressage legal ones. Not sure what they are called but they have the "D" rings.. They cannot lean on them as the 2 sides of the mouthpeice move independently. If you get the one with the rotating piece then it may give him something to think about too.
 
I'd also suggest a myler - we have a dressage legal one for tests (like the one Anne has suggested) and one with "hooks" for schooling in, that give a tiny bit of poll pressure but more importantly sit the bit in the mouth correctly rather than it just dropping onto the tongue which my sisters horse really really hates.
Or, how about a hanging cheek french link? just to give you a little more in the way of a no when you need it but being consistent for him as its dressage legal.
 
Thanks everyone will look into the mylers as they do sound good.
I really don't like hanging cheek snaffles and the way they act on the horse so I'm very un-willing to try one on him but have got one to try and if it works I'll use it but I'd rather not.
 
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