Blocking up fox holes

[KautoStar1]

Is it not illegal for hunt staff (or anyone for that matter) to block up foxes den holes ?

I only ask because our local hunt were out on Sunday doing just that and I thought this was not allowed, even pre ban.

Assuming it is illegal, is this not the sort of act that alientates hunting further still from the general public, those whose very support hunting needs, especially now with the push for repeal ?

I'm certainly not anti hunting, but I find this type of thing totally unacceptable. Almost to the point that I feel like reporting it. As this was taking place on private land (our livery yard) I can only assume our YO had given permission. Not that it makes it any more appropriate.

Enlighten me please ??

 

[mystiandsunny]

I don't think it is illegal. This advice is given by Derbyshire CC:
Moving foxes on

If you can find the fox’s den you will often see more than one hole. Fill these holes with brick
and rubble, leaving one exit hole. Place leaves or twigs across this hole so you can see if this
stays in use. If there is a strong smell of musk or more holes have been dug, again fill in,
leaving one hole open. Leave for a few days and repeat this until the twigs are undisturbed
then block up the last hole. You should find that the fox would then move on.

http://www.derby.gov.uk/NR/rdonlyres/659FC4C8-047C-44FE-80D2-C2FB8D0965AB/0/FS8FOXES.pdf

Similar advice here:
http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/HomeAndCommunity/InYourHome/PestAndWeedControl/DG_172742

 

[Sandstone1]

I dont know much about it, but also thought it was not legal now?

 

[Binkle&Flip]

Is it not illegal for hunt staff (or anyone for that matter) to block up foxes den holes ?

I only ask because our local hunt were out on Sunday doing just that and I thought this was not allowed, even pre ban.

Assuming it is illegal, is this not the sort of act that alientates hunting further still from the general public, those whose very support hunting needs, especially now with the push for repeal ?

I'm certainly not anti hunting, but I find this type of thing totally unacceptable. Almost to the point that I feel like reporting it. As this was taking place on private land (our livery yard) I can only assume our YO had given permission. Not that it makes it any more appropriate.

Enlighten me please ??

Absolutely illegal and should be reported. The other advice you have been given is with regard to urban foxes solely for the purpose of moving them away from your land.

1.Using more than one 'soft terrier' (those that habitually stand off and bark at the wild mammal) to bolt a fox is illegal. Terriers that are ‘hard’ (those that habitually fight) must not be used.

2.Using a terrier other than to bolt a fox for the purpose of reducing damage to game birds being kept for shooting, is now illegal. Fox example, you could not do it on a farm that just had sheep.

3.Written permission must be kept by the terrierman showing he has the permission of the landowner.

4.The aim must be to bolt a fox. Entering a terrier into a hole with its exit blocked is illegal, as is digging down and shooting the fox. Indeed anything that will prevent the fox bolting is illegal.

 

[AmyMay]

It's not illegal.

However, in terms of hunting - it of course may fall under a different set of rules - as hunting with hounds is now outlawed..........

 

[Binkle&Flip]

It's not illegal.

However, in terms of hunting - it of course may fall under a different set of rules - as hunting with hounds is now outlawed..........

It is 100% illegal for a hunt to block holes if hunting foxes.

 

[Binkle&Flip]

This, regarding the law is taken from the National Working Terrier Federation web page.

This Act (schedule 1 paragraph 2) permits the use of a single dog below ground to flush out wild mammals solely for the purpose of preventing or reducing serious damage to game birds or wild birds being kept or preserved to be shot. The person must carry with them written permission and intend to shoot the wild mammal as soon as possible after it is flushed.

All reasonable steps must be taken to prevent risk or injury to the dog and the manner in which it is used must comply with the following code issued by the Secretary of State:

•The terrier's role is to locate and flush the mammal, not to fight with it.
•Only 'soft' terriers which stand back and bark are to be used.
•Care must be taken to ensure the safety of those involved and to minimise the risk of injury to either the terrier or the wild mammal.
•The terrier's time below ground must be kept as short as is possible.
•The terrier must always be fitted with an electronic locator.
•Once it is determined a terrier is trapped, assistance must be given to release it immediately.
Under the Act nothing other than nets may be placed over entrance/exit holes during the flushing. It is not permitted to use a terrier to locate, dig down and dispatch the quarry. But if the dog is removed, relocated, secured and not used again, then the quarry may be dug down to and dispatched. The hunting of rats and rabbits is exempt from the above, but does require the landowner or occupiers permission in order to be exempt.

 

[Lizzie66]

It is 100% illegal for a hunt to block holes if hunting foxes.

You seem to be missing the point. The hunting of foxes may now be illegal (using more than two hounds ....), the blocking of the holes isn't.

 

[amandap]

If permanantly blocking holes isn't illegal it certainly should be! Putting nets over to catch after flushing isn't the same. Not that it's something I like but do accept.

The excerpt form the Working Terrier Federation seems clear enough to me. I take it this isn't an overall standard though.

 

[KautoStar1]

um !!

3 chaps with spades, 4 terriers and all of a sudden a number of foxes seen dashing across our fields. They would have to had permission to come onto our land, you can only reach it via a private roadway.

Is it too early for females with cubs ? I was wondering if this practice was in some way to reduce the number of foxes by killing the young in their nests. The hunt aren't due to meet over our way just yet, so any foxes flushed out now would presumably find another hole quite easily.

 

[Binkle&Flip]

You seem to be missing the point. The hunting of foxes may now be illegal (using more than two hounds ....), the blocking of the holes isn't.

I am not sure that I am to be fair Lizzie. If you block a fox hole with anything other than a net then put a terrier in an open hole it is illegal.

 

[Binkle&Flip]

If permanantly blocking holes isn't illegal it certainly should be! Putting nets over to catch after flushing isn't the same. Not that it's something I like but do accept.

The excerpt form the Working Terrier Federation seems clear enough to me. I take it this isn't an overall standard though.

The excerpt from the NWTF is the actual law and must be followed by all.

 

[amandap]

Is it too early for females with cubs ? I was wondering if this practice was in some way to reduce the number of foxes by killing the young in their nests.

That was my thought tbh. Surely blocking holes to trap foxes in (or adults out away from young) to die/starve is not legal?

 

[Maesfen]

It is 100% illegal for a hunt to block holes if hunting foxes.

I thought it was illegal to hunt foxes except to a gun or a bird, ho hum.

Of course, you could look at it another way. They are blocking them in so they can't be hunted accidentally.

 

[Binkle&Flip]

um !!

3 chaps with spades, 4 terriers and all of a sudden a number of foxes seen dashing across our fields. They would have to had permission to come onto our land, you can only reach it via a private roadway.

Is it too early for females with cubs ? I was wondering if this practice was in some way to reduce the number of foxes by killing the young in their nests. The hunt aren't due to meet over our way just yet, so any foxes flushed out now would presumably find another hole quite easily.

Killing the young would be illegal I believe as they are not orphaned cubs and it is illegal just to flush foxes unless you intend to shoot them.

 

[amandap]

The excerpt from the NWTF is the actual law and must be followed by all.

Oh right thanks.

 

[Luci07]

From your description it does sound as if the foxes were being forced to move - why don't you just ask the land owner and put your mind at rest?

 

[Binkle&Flip]

I thought it was illegal to hunt foxes except to a gun or a bird, ho hum.

Of course, you could look at it another way. They are blocking them in so they can't be hunted accidentally.

It is Maesfen but as you say, at least they cannot if blocked in be 'accidentally', hunted

 

[AmyMay]

You seem to be missing the point. The hunting of foxes may now be illegal (using more than two hounds ....), the blocking of the holes isn't.

Exactly.

 

[rosie fronfelen]

How times have changed- years ago earth stopping was the norm the day before the hunt, noone gave it a second thought!!

 

[Binkle&Flip]

How times have changed- years ago earth stopping was the norm the day before the hunt, noone gave it a second thought!!

The good old dark ages

 

[Maesfen]

How times have changed- years ago earth stopping was the norm the day before the hunt, noone gave it a second thought!!

I've spent more than a few hours doing it myself, Rosie. Nothing's the same now worst luck.

 

[rosie fronfelen]

The good old dark ages

Believe you me- dark or not they were good days!!!

 

[Binkle&Flip]

Believe you me- dark or not they were good days!!!

Yes, I believe you gained pleasure from killing not only the 'sick, and the 'old', but also the healthy

 

[KautoStar1]

so it seems quite unclear depending on which side of the 'fence' you sit. because people have made valid points on both sides.

But, if hunting is to regain its legal status, do you not think that some practices, such as stopping up earths, should become illegal ?

My personal view is that yes, these practices should be illegal. AND if I was sure which hunt (I have a pretty good idea) AND I knew if was definately illegal, I would report it. I would also ask the land owner, but doubt they'd know what was legal or not !!!

AND i do want hunting to survive and be accecptable.

 

[rosie fronfelen]

Yes, I believe you gained pleasure from killing not only the 'sick, and the 'old', but also the healthy

HAHA-so its quite acceptable for foxes to kill lambs and chickens then?

 

[Maesfen]

If things get changed again - as I hope they will be, for the hunt staff alone if nothing else, then personally, I would rather they 'stopped' than allow terriers to be used if they get to ground but as I say, that is my own preference. I believe if a fox gets in it should be given best unless that farmer particularly wants any fox killed.

 

[combat_claire]

But, if hunting is to regain its legal status, do you not think that some practices, such as stopping up earths, should become illegal ?

The major justification for hunting is pest control and for me earth stopping and terrier work is a major management tool and should be retained if repeal is secured.

 

[Sandstone1]

Sorry for being a bit thick, but has it been established if stopping holes is in fact illegal, I thought it was under the hunting act 2004 but im not 100% sure.
Would like to know.

 

[amandap]

HAHA-so its quite acceptable for foxes to kill lambs and chickens then?

Who are we to decide whether another species has the right to kill to survive? We do enough of it ourselves and waste so much of what we have killed.
We only dislike foxes killing our domestic animals because we loose money and they're 'ours'. Chickens are only killed em masse by foxes because of the way we shut them in.

What was the point of earth stopping prior to hunting anyway?