Blocking up fox holes

[Binkle&Flip]

HAHA-so its quite acceptable for foxes to kill lambs and chickens then?

Have foxes started blocking up the lambs and chickens now or are we jumping subject Not sure what chickens and lambs have to do with this subject

 

[EAST KENT]

Sorry to be picky you antis x 2, but foxes have "earths" not "den holes" or "nests" either . It is legal to use terriers if in the protection of game birds,strangely though not for the protection of sheep.
Earth stopping may well have been to bung Charlie IN so as not to offend you bunny huggers..might it not ?

 

[Binkle&Flip]

Sorry for being a bit thick, but has it been established if stopping holes is in fact illegal, I thought it was under the hunting act 2004 but im not 100% sure.
Would like to know.

Yes it is illegal. You can only cover a hole with a net or flush to shoot.

 

[combat_claire]

Have foxes started blocking up the lambs and chickens now or are we jumping subject Not sure what chickens and lambs have to do with this subject

It is relevant because you copied guidance relating to terrier work and rightly stated that it is legal to work terriers below ground to protect game birds, but if a farmer was to ask someone to work terriers below ground to protect his lambs that would be illegal as the Hunting Act currently stands.

Does this not cause you for one moment to question the logic of the Hunting Act???

 

[combat_claire]

Who are we to decide whether another species has the right to kill to survive? We do enough of it ourselves and waste so much of what we have killed.
We only dislike foxes killing our domestic animals because we loose money and they're 'ours'. Chickens are only killed em masse by foxes because of the way we shut them in.

What was the point of earth stopping prior to hunting anyway?

The irony in your post is quite staggering. Why do you think that the lambs, chickens and piglets have less right to life than the fox that wishes to predate them?

Some antis tell us we should shut the livestock up more securely to prevent fox predation, and now you are saying that being shut up together is what makes predation more likely. Will your side kindly make its mind up.

 

[amandap]

It is relevant because you copied guidance relating to terrier work and rightly stated that it is legal to work terriers below ground to protect game birds, but if a farmer was to ask someone to work terriers below ground to protect his lambs that would be illegal as the Hunting Act currently stands.

Does this not cause you for one moment to question the logic of the Hunting Act???

It shows me that the act is still in favour of killing for sport rather than 'pest' control. I believe a lot of the phesants shot are buried anyway! So galling to me. Breed em to kill and don't even bother to eat them!

 

[Binkle&Flip]

Sorry to be picky you antis x 2, but foxes have "earths" not "den holes" or "nests" either . It is legal to use terriers if in the protection of game birds,strangely though not for the protection of sheep.
Earth stopping may well have been to bung Charlie IN so as not to offend you bunny huggers..might it not ?

Nooooooo, we were all doing so well, not one bit of name calling East Kent

Not sure who you are addressing with the anti x 2, and bunny hugger comments so lets just agree that foxes have 'holes', and dont want them filled by us humans.

 

[amandap]

The irony in your post is quite staggering. Why do you think that the lambs, chickens and piglets have less right to life than the fox that wishes to predate them?

I certainly do not believe that lambs or chicken have less right to live than foxes neither do I believe they have more right. My point was... what gives us the right to choose which should live or die when something is killing to eat and survive?

As for defense against fox kill... we have supposedly got the bigger brains so surely we can come up with something that stops foxes most of the time?

 

[Binkle&Flip]

It is relevant because you copied guidance relating to terrier work and rightly stated that it is legal to work terriers below ground to protect game birds, but if a farmer was to ask someone to work terriers below ground to protect his lambs that would be illegal as the Hunting Act currently stands.

Does this not cause you for one moment to question the logic of the Hunting Act???

I understand what you are saying and perhaps you are right it does not seem logical although my solution to the unfairness may be different to your own.
On the thread topic it is illegal to block 'earth entrances', ( for East Kent), with anything other than nets is it not?

 

[Binkle&Flip]

In fairness to the writer of the opening post why are some intent on decending this thread into and anti or pro debate! The topic is simple is it at PRESENT legal or illegal to block fox earth openings and deploy terriers?

 

[oakash]

What an exraordinary thread, which perfectly demonstrates how confusing and non-sensicle the Hunting Act is. Surely no anti could think it is 'doing good' for wildlife? Foxes are being killed indiscrimately to protect lambs in hill areas, by methods far, far 'crueller' than hunting. By the way, I regularly fill in any holes I see on my land. They have nothing to do with foxes, of course. But when hunting is restored, foxes will not be able to get into them. Presumably the antis would like me to leave holes all over my fields?

 

[amandap]

Yes, I'll shut up now cos I'm leading the thread astray.

 

[AmyMay]

Sorry for being a bit thick, but has it been established if stopping holes is in fact illegal, I thought it was under the hunting act 2004 but im not 100% sure.
Would like to know.

Blocking holes is not illegal.

HOWEVER, hunts may not block up holes in order to hunt a fox. As the hunting of foxes is now against the law.

 

[combat_claire]

It shows me that the act is still in favour of killing for sport rather than 'pest' control. I believe a lot of the phesants shot are buried anyway! So galling to me. Breed em to kill and don't even bother to eat them!

It shows me that the Act is an illogical and cruel piece of legislation. Those making the law applied no clear thought process whatsoever. It is either wrong to use terriers below ground or it isn't. There can't be a halfway house where you can use them to protect game but not to protect domestic livestock.

As far as I am aware the burying of shot game is an old myth - promotion of game today is a lot better and it is now available in the supermarkets, this combined with changes to the game dealing laws mean that excess shot game can always find an outlet and that frozen game can be sold and eaten out of season. I love game and can't get enough of it. Indeed I have a pheasant in the freezer waiting for me to decide what delicious recipe he is going to be used in! If you haven't eaten any form of game (not just pheasants) then I can truly recommend it. I have a great recipe for pigeon in a chilli and mushroom sauce if anyone wants it. Yum yum.

 

[amandap]

I grew up eating well hung phesant btw. The last time I was told that burying of phesants still goes on was four years ago when I still lived in N. Yorks.
I really will shut up now.

 

[KautoStar1]

[ Earth stopping may well have been to bung Charlie IN so as not to offend you bunny huggers..might it not ? [/QUOTE]

Now you KNOW thats not true !!

 

[Alec Swan]

It shows me that the Act is an illogical and cruel piece of legislation. Those making the law applied no clear thought process whatsoever. It is either wrong to use terriers below ground or it isn't. There can't be a halfway house where you can use them to protect game but not to protect domestic livestock........

Perhaps the way to repeal the Hunting Act, is not too attempt it in one fell swoop, but to dismember it, by working away at the separate sections, and a start could be made on the ridiculous and completely illogical legislation, which you've highlighted above. It defies any logic, whatsoever.

A war is a series of individual battles, generally!

Alec.

 

[rosie fronfelen]

Amandap, have you seen a lamb torn to shreds?

 

[rosie fronfelen]

Is anything not illegal anymore?

 

[Binkle&Flip]

Yes, I'll shut up now cos I'm leading the thread astray.

Not you

 

[amandap]

Amandap, have you seen a lamb torn to shreds?

Only by humans. Oh I have seen one torn to shreds by dogs a few years ago. I take it you mean by foxes then no but I have seen birds, rabbits and numerous animals torn to shreds by my cats and lots of wildlife film of animals killing and eating prey. It's not pleasant to watch and see I know but does our indignation give us a right to make choices as to which animals are allowed to kill to live and feed their young and which are not. If animals are to be persecuted purely for killing to live then we should be persecuted too surely? We kill to live on an epic scale.
Killing to live is part of life for all meat eating species we have to accept that and get some balance and perspective in our thinking imo that's all.

Btw... I didn't say this, I'm not here. lol

 

[Orangehorse]

So the idea is that you put a net over the exit, put a terrier in, which flushes the fox, it gets caught in the net and it is shot at close range with a shotgun. To protect game birds but not sheep. That is legal?

 

[Binkle&Flip]

What an exraordinary thread, which perfectly demonstrates how confusing and non-sensicle the Hunting Act is. Surely no anti could think it is 'doing good' for wildlife? Foxes are being killed indiscrimately to protect lambs in hill areas, by methods far, far 'crueller' than hunting. By the way, I regularly fill in any holes I see on my land. They have nothing to do with foxes, of course. But when hunting is restored, foxes will not be able to get into them. Presumably the antis would like me to leave holes all over my fields?

Actually a very clear thread asking for an honest response to a simple situation. The confusion has only been created by non-sensicle posts made to create a smokescreen

 

[rosie fronfelen]

Only by humans. Oh I have seen one torn to shreds by dogs a few years ago. I take it you mean by foxes then no but I have seen birds, rabbits and numerous animals torn to shreds by my cats and lots of wildlife film of animals killing and eating prey. It's not pleasant to watch and see I know but does our indignation give us a right to make choices as to which animals are allowed to kill to live and feed their young and which are not. If animals are to be persecuted purely for killing to live then we should be persecuted too surely? We kill to live on an epic scale.
Killing to live is part of life for all meat eating species we have to accept that and get some balance and perspective in our thinking imo that's all.

Btw... I didn't say this, I'm not here. lol

Im off too before i am driven insane by bunny/ fox huggers.

 

[amandap]

So the idea is that you put a net over the exit, put a terrier in, which flushes the fox, it gets caught in the net and it is shot at close range with a shotgun. To protect game birds but not sheep. That is legal?

It seems that way and even I can see that is totally ridiculous!

Im off too before i am driven insane by bunny/ fox huggers.

Hehe! I love to hug all animals even some humans. Er no, I take that back I don't think I could hug a spider.

 

[Binkle&Flip]

Blocking holes is not illegal.

HOWEVER, hunts may not block up holes in order to hunt a fox. As the hunting of foxes is now against the law.

It took a long time for you to address the point of the opening post but at least you made it in the end amymay

 

[Binkle&Flip]

It shows me that the Act is an illogical and cruel piece of legislation. Those making the law applied no clear thought process whatsoever. It is either wrong to use terriers below ground or it isn't. There can't be a halfway house where you can use them to protect game but not to protect domestic livestock.

Correct me please if I am wrong, but wasnt it originally proposed that all terrier work be stopped. The exemption being forced on the government at the time by the shooting lobby/Lords.

 

[Binkle&Flip]

Is anything not illegal anymore?

Hugging bunnies

 

[Binkle&Flip]

Perhaps the way to repeal the Hunting Act, is not too attempt it in one fell swoop, but to dismember it, by working away at the separate sections, and a start could be made on the ridiculous and completely illogical legislation, which you've highlighted above. It defies any logic, whatsoever.

A war is a series of individual battles, generally!

Alec.

Is there not a risk that it could lead to tightening of certain aspects of the act Alec? ie the exemption for game birds lost rather than for protection of sheep allowed.

Winning some battles doesnt always win the war.

 

[Herne]

The hunt aren't due to meet over our way just yet, so any foxes flushed out now would presumably find another hole quite easily.

KS, this situation seems a bit confused.

First, if the Hunt aren’t due round in your area then the activities were probably unconnected with the Hunt. Even if you saw some people who may go hunting when the Hunt is out, that does not mean that they are always acting for or on behalf of the Hunt 24/7. People do have private lives, time off etc. – so don’t assume that whatever you saw was connected with the Hunt unless you are absolutely certain. No hunt I know (in the UK) operates on a Sunday.

Second, your original post asked whether blocking holes was illegal, but your next post says that foxes were running away – which rather implies that the holes were unblocked. If what you saw taking place was terrier-work, then that is very much within the Law – provided that it meets the conditions laid out therein and follows the necessary Code.

The requirement for terrier-work is that the fox is flushed out to be shot – however, the Code of Practice makes allowance for the obvious precaution that a shot should only be taken if it is safe for the terriers and human participants – so it is entirely possible that what you saw was completely within the law.

In fairness to the writer of the opening post why are some intent on decending this thread into and anti or pro debate! The topic is simple is it at PRESENT legal or illegal to block fox earth openings and deploy terriers?

No it isn’t. The question was “is it illegal to block fox holes” and the answer to that is an emphatic No. You can go out and block up as many fox holes as you wish, right in front of as many policemen as you wish, and you do not commit a crime under the hunting Act or any other Act.

Badger holes are a different matter, but that is covered under the Badgers Act, not the Hunting Act.

You, B&F are the one who is trying to obfuscate the topic by answering a question that was not actually asked.

For the what it’s worth, however, your answer is not strictly accurate anyway. There is nothing within the act or the code that says that you may not block a hole – merely that you must flush and shoot the animal as quickly as possible.

In most cases that would infer that the exits should not be blocked.

However, imagine a hypothetical scenario where there are two equally possible exits from a den from which you could flush the fox – one of which opened onto an area where a safe shot could be taken and one of which opened onto an area where the shot would be unsafe.

Providing that you could do it in such a way that there was no risk of the fox becoming trapped by the blockage, it could be argued that not only would it be legal to block the “unsafe” exit, but that it might even be required to do so – to ensure that the flushed fox was indeed shot at and not just allowed to escape because the shot was unsafe.