Bobby Roberts' Circus

ladyt25

ladyt25

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I have just seen the bit on The One Show where they were talking to Bobby (I assume, missed the first bit) and them with Anne the elephant. I actually feel a little sorry for them and in some ways the animal rights people make me a little angry. I think they go over the top - I mean, how dare the threaten someone's life and children?

I do not agree with an elephant being in a circus or any wild animal. However, what people seem to have forgotten is this elephant has been in that circus for 50 years, that was when it was acceptable and normal for wild animals to be in a circus. It isn't easy to rehome an elephant after all. Its seems sad it has taken an incident like this for the elephant to actually be offered a home when, from the sounds of it they have tried to rehome her over the last 2 years.

I really think the protestors need more before they act. I have never seen this circus and do not know what other animals they may have that aren't domesticated. I don't have an issue with horses or dogs etc being in a circus, i don't see it as any different to a normal working life for these animals, providing they are well cared for etc.

Sorry, i am rambling - my point is it angers me how the people protesting and wanting to ruin these people's livelihoods seem to act as badly, if not worse than the abuser in the first place. An abuser whose actions it sounds like they were genuinely not aware of.

I actually hope they do come through this - I have seen circuses (with acrobatics, no animals) and I think they are great entertainment, especially for kids. I don't think we should want tolose them for good.

I was angry an upset seeing the beating of that elephant but I am glad I have seen the other side of the story.
 
As always there are two side to a story, im also glad we have heard the otherside of this one and that Ann will finally have somewhere safe to retire to. People have been quick to judge Bobby, however this man has grown up with Ann much the same as we do with our horses, change isnt always easy to have thrust upon us. I hope now that both
Bobby and Ann find the peace they deserve and that the circus can continue to entertain families for years to come.
 
Sorry but i am goign to disagree here.
Not only annie was abused - if you watch the videos the horses were too.
Now i am not an elephant expert so cant comment on annie - but im sure if someone started abusing my horse i would know about it - if they were previously well looked after and suddenly abused woudlnt their personalities change, woudlnt it be obvious to a loving carign owner soemthing was wrong?

At the end of the day the responsibility lies with the owner - he should have ensured his animals were looked after properly - and taken immediate action when it became sureley obvious they werent?

As an example - i have a shih tsu who needs regular clipping.
I once sent him to a local clipper and my poor boy came back very distressed, nervous - woudlnt eat, hid under my bed.

I cannot proove anything but i just know he had suffered an "unpleasant" experience with this groomer - he did nto go back and with every groomer since i spelled out what happened to my boy and i did not - want a repeat experience - ie i looked out for my lad, made sure i looked after my lad by letting people know i could tell immediateley if he had been hurt.

If this elephant had been in this mans care for 50 years, well loved and cared for - sureley he woudl noticed any distress???

Also - the shackling - on an arthritic animal - horrific - im sorry but ive no sympathy for the man at all
 
I agree with narkymare.

I didnt think that Annie look happy there and the fact that Bobby wouldn't comment on the abuse the animal had inflicked on it didnt sit well with me, he looked guily. I also find it a bit odd that they said they had tried to find Annie a home for sometime with no luck but as soon as this was brought to the publics attention Longleat came forwards and said they would take the animal.
 
Anne will be well cared for in her retirement at Longleat. She is due to arrive in a few days, and the sooner the better.

Thanks to the Daily Mail for having brought her plight to the attention of the public.
 
Its a shame that it takes 'the attention of the public' so many times in this country for things to be sorted in cases of animal cruelty, without that and the media spin too much seems to be left to continue.
I have no doubt had this not become an issue in the papers Ann would still be at the hands of her abusers and there would be no animal parks promising her a home. I do question why this place was not offered before as surely as she was the last elephant in a circus in the country her postion would have been well known about by the RSPCA and other people who have dealings with an animal of this size including the other animal parks.
I am glad for her now,hopefully she will settle quickly into her new lifw which after so long is well over due. It just annoys me that it takes our questionable media to jump on the wagon for a problem to be such that it gets sorted so quickly.
 
What complete and utter clap trap and tosh! -tried to rehome for 2 years - why on earth then would he not sell her to the mirror whom rasied 20k a few years back to relive the poor girls suffering - why can you find pleas, pertitions and evidence that investigations into the welfare of this animal have been ongoing since at least 2007!

If he cared so much for her - why was she shown shackled to two chains in the presance of Bobby - when now all of a sudden media attention is around, she is in a stall the size of an aircraft hanger with more room to move and more straw than she has probably seen in her life.

Why when you look at her you get a sense of imense pity for her and you can almost taste her fear - the poor girl is so obviously frazzled by the sudden change in her circumstances and she has obviously not got a clue how to react to this kindness, she shows trepdiation when taking the treats - but her eyes tell you she is waiting for something to happen. She is not happy and she certainly is not relxaed in this barbarians presance and i hope with all my heart that her abusers are prevented from ever seeing her again. I am pretty sure animals react the same way to humans - they form some type of dependancy- even love to there capture - and she will neve be truly free of this fear until she does not see them, hear them or smell them.

I hope that they do have to close down and i pray that the other poor mites in there care (abuse) are taken off them. Anyone whom has any kind of rapport with animals would know if someone was abusing them - obvious signs like head shynes, anxiety rushing, backing off from people. And you honestly tell me that none of these signs were evident? Dont think so.
 
I didn't see anything in the news about them prosecuting the Romanian? Can someone please clarify if he has been delt with?
 
Ahh the old' get some sympathy off the public' act. The circus abusers do this often so it would seem. If there IS proof he and his family has been threatend, I hope those responsible are dealt with, as this is never acceptable. But this is exactly what I said would happen! Exactly! He would start raving on about animal terrorists! :rolleyes:

Yes, as with anything there is a percentage who take things too far, but many people who are angry at this animal abusing thug, are just ordinary Joe public who don't like seeing animals abused.

Also if it wasn't for the animal defenders, Anne would still be living in that hell hole! But now I bet he gets a new elephant to replace her.

BOYCOTT CIRCUSES WITH ANIMALS!!!

No sympathy for that pig whatsoever! Try and tell me he wasn't involved in abuse over the years!:rolleyes:
 
I am not saying that it is right for aan elephant to be in a circus. I didn't see the horses being abused, I didn't see the conditions they were kept in so I can't comment on that but surely, the circus has been going for years, are they not monitored at all by the likes of the RSPCA etc? Maybe I am naive and they are not. I could not tell whether anne looked distressed or unhappy on the One Show's footage as I wouldn't know what signs to look for - she seemed content enough stood with them at that time.

I think the shackles are horrid but they do seem to be quite common place where elephants are concerned - i have seen one of those zoo progs (can't recall which one) and they had the elephant shackled whilst it was giving birth. I thought that was dreadful. I assume it was to prevent her injuring the baby but I don't think it was a particularly nice thing. At the end of the day elephants shouldn't be in captivity full stop but sadly, because of us, they are.

I am very glad Anne will finally have a retirement home and no, it should not have come to this for it to happen but I don't agree with people being threatened by protestors. That just makes them as bad as those responsible in the first place.
 
They are not going to abuse the animals whilst the RSPCA inspectors are there are they? As long as the living conditions meet DEFRAs/RSPCA requirements, food/water/shelter etc then what can they do? They only see what the circus wants them to see.(They have security on their gates so know who is coming in) Isn't it common sense to know that an animal like and elephant who in the wild would spend days roaming on instinct, is not going to be happy chained or living in a small enclosure? (I'm not a fan of zoos either, but these animals spend days on a trailer too and in a very small enclosure) During the winter months they are enclosed inside alltogether, All in the name of entertainment, not conservation.

I the 'Great british circus' website (after they had a similar abuse incident with elephants last year, they blamed a romanian worker too) They stated the animals are free to roam the fields when they are with the circus on the road. How can you have elephants/tigers etc roaming open fields? They were in my area and when I drove past they were clearly all in tiny metal pens. There are tons of videos on YT showing many different circuses, with animals being abused and displaying mental distress (rocking back and fourth/pacing/jumping up and down on the spot etc) The way I have seen them 'train' their animals is with violence, which I presume is quicker and safer when you're trying to force a tiger/elephant perform unatural tricks. You may think a tiger/elephant would fight back, but they do not. Honestly just search YT, many undercover videos.
Now I am not saying that ALL circuses train their animals with violence or abuse them..... But I am really only just saying that as I feel I have to, but I don;t know do I?
It is a sad, barbaric life for any animal and one which I believe should not be allowed in this day and age.

I don't agree with the people being threatened. Nor do I agree with circuses which use animals for entertainment.
 
I go back to times when a visit to a circus was something amounting to shock and awe! No hint of cruelty then - they were after all - called "Liberty Horses" despite being goaded to canter around a small ring by a trainer with a long whip which he or she felt compelled to crack every so often. Lions and Tigers were treated the same way without the slightest complaint from the public who ooohed and ahhhed at the antics of the "Tamer" again with a big whip - the only animals that seemed to do tricks because they wanted to were Seals and Sealions. The guy who put his head under the Elephant's foot always got the best applause though I suspect some of the crowd would have liked to see him crushed!

As a child, I remember being fascinated looking at the sawdust ring left in the grass after the "big top" had gone and seeing how small it really was. The whole business looked exceedingly grubby and down at heal to me even then, with lots of shady looking foreigners smoking out the back still with smears of makeup on their faces - but I also remember how three tapeze artists risked their lives doing triple change sommersalts without a safety net to amuse me and no more than forty other children and parents.

That was as I said a very different era but the Spanish Riding School Vienna still trains Lippanzannas to capriole by some extremely doubious methods involving the animal being severely constricted between strudy fixtures. Is this O.K. because it's done in more salubrious surroundings?
 
I have known circus people well,and not one of them was anything other than a concientious animal lover,can only speak as I have found. It is a wholly different concept keeping working animals on the road,not ideal to be sure, but to keep the animals well and working on view all the time must take skill.
In the old days we were able to wander around the back after the performance at Billy Smarts and Chipperfields, the conditions were fine and comfortable for most,the cat pens were too small;elephants are routinely chained even when working in the Far East, so nothing different there.
Circus care in Britain was always pretty good,if your livliehood is derived from your animals it makes sense to look after them well,same as in any other livestock business.
The people I know ,although no longer in circus,have a standard of care that puts the vast majority of us to shame.
 
millhouse said:
Anne will be well cared for in her retirement at Longleat. She is due to arrive in a few days, and the sooner the better.

Thanks to the Daily Mail for having brought her plight to the attention of the public.
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Sincerely I hope she will not have to continue in solitary confinement, elephants are such family orientated animals,almost more than any other.
 
I'm sure Bobby is a sweetheart...

I don't agree with animals in circus. BUT it should be perfectly possible to have them and treat them humanely. That elephant was abused. There was evidence. No more to say IMO.
Plenty of circuses make money without animals.
 
OP I just cannot agree with you and have no idea where you are coming from. Yes threatening behaviour is dreadful and low, but as far as I understand it does not come from the organisation who "outed" the circus. I frequently despair at "animal rights" organisations and have always firmly believed they do far more harm than good. But in this case, they did good.

I'm astonished at your OP to be honest. Bobby Roberts is now doing the time for the crime, that is all I can see. I still have concerns for Anne's welfare, yes she will undoubtedly be better off, but she needs other elephant company. Otherwise our animal welfare laws are still contravened as far as I can make out. If she's too old/infirm to make the journey, bring others to her. But I'm sure it will be left now. As for the other animals in the circus I am still at a loss as to why Bobby Roberts is not just prosecuted and the animals removed from him, like any council estate animal torturer. He was ultimately responsible, he made the money from her and the other animals, he chose the staff, he paid them a pittance. Anne meant £8k a year outlay to him. Think on that. As for the threats, no I don't agree, but he is reaping what he sowed and that still is nowhere near enough in my view.
 
Watch this - warning to the fainthearted, it's not pretty and pulls no punches. There are numerous such videos, just go to youtube and type in "elephant kills man".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mw4ZORGREqQ

Even if you have little sympathy for the animals, you may conclude that Bobby Roberts was putting millions of human lives in danger with his actions.

I know very little about elephants, but I do know that WE can cause such reactions in them. They are such gentle, intelligent, complex and peaceful creatures, the fact that we create these sorts of incidents should make people of this man's ilk take note. The fact that they do not is THEIR responsibility, should anything similar happen in one of their "circuses".
 
ladyt25 said:
I really think the protestors need more before they act.
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What more, exactly, do you want? This "organisation" clearly knew enough to plant the hidden camera. Well done them I say.

Sorry to go on but you have royally chuffed me off, and that is not easy to do. What is your point, exactly?
 
We could talk about this for ever but i think we need to remember that she has been in this circus for ''50 years'',its all well and good to call out ''set her free'' (for people who believe free willie was a documentary) for her now to go to longleat will be a massive massive change that might not be so good for her, elephants live typically 50 to 70 years so she might have 20 years at longleat or maybe 6 months who knows, in my experience dramatic changes like this more often than not kill the animal. I absolutely agree and am thrilled that she will go to longleat, but i wont be getting on my high horse about it because that circus has been her entire life and tho clearly it is a hard life, life is hard. Im no elephant psychologist but think how you would feel being taken from everything you've ever known. i don't disagree with domestic animals in circus but i do disagree with exotics! I've seen elephants and lions and i really do not think they belong in shows. i'm sure there are exceptions, but not in any show i have seen. saying that i have seen elephants in zoos who have looked even more miserable and have exhibited worse stress behavior than the circus animals i've seen. its a double edged sword!
 
bwpre said:
that circus has been her entire life and tho clearly it is a hard life, life is hard. Im no elephant psychologist but think how you would feel being taken from everything you've ever known.
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If everything I'd ever known had been violence, I'd be quite chuffed.

Yes life is hard, should it involve a daily beating though? Are you saying, leave her where she is?

Have you watched the video?
 
Yeah coz domestic pets have it so easy in circuses! They don't suffer at all!

Research into it, there are undercover videos of dogs being beaten at circuses!

ANY animal in a circus is wrong.

I agree that the change will be very hard for Anne. But at least she has a chance of happiness.
 
Not at all, i'm saying, don't make a vendetta out of something you don't understand. FYI elephants don't think like people! she wont think oh thank god you came and rescued me, she will see everything she has ever known and then she will see something completely alien to her "which is scary''!

also whilst on the point, people seem to have absolutely no apprehension when smacking there horse on the nose or using a whip on the flanks (Personally i never under any circumstances use any force whatsoever! JSYK), An elephants skin is an inch thick so an ankus has the same level of severity as your index finger on your horses nose, if i came into your yard and said you have been cruel to your horse for the last 50 years you would probably find it hard to accept that.

My most blunt point is that if you yourself have never come into contact with an elephant it afflict me that you feel you are apt to debate the topic!
yes you saw a video! this elephants life is 50 years long! how long was the video!
Dont get me wrong i think any amount of cruelty is awful and must be stopped, but taring with your brush would have me boxing up and 'rescuing' a lot of horses!
 
Sorry, but disagree hugely. You don't know what I or others 'understand' you don't know what I have researched or who I have contacted regarding circus animals.

But each to their own.
 
Slightly off topic, but some of the protesters they have interviewed want to ban the keeping of all animals in captivity.
This of course would involve horses, cats, dogs and even goldfish.
I can't agree with the keeping of animals in circus conditions, but there are also a lot of horses stabled most of the time and driven from venue to venue in the competition season, not that different a life to a lot of circus animals.
 
Although the elephant`s conditions are inadequate I do believe that moving her at a great age ,out of her known surroundings and routine ,will shock her enough to kill her.
Bear in mind that the process of "taming" any young elephant from the wild for work in the Far East is violent ,brutal and takes a long time. It is "breaking" in every sense of the word.Remarkable that such a capable huge beast for the most part prefers to submit rather than kill us.
Really they should be left entirely alone to continue their peaceful and complicated family life.
The people I have known would not have used brutality in training their animals ,in fact they are all vehement vegetarians and respect and treasure their horses/dogs etc much more than anyone I have come accross. It is unfair to base your opinion of circus people on the actions of an itinerent foreign worker. I have employed workers in my kennels who unknown to me had been less than kind,one I found out about when the dog bit him ..and now loathes all men in boots,and the other by a bitch`s attitude after The girl had left.Niether of them were outwardly rough,but obviously had been,dogs don`t lie.
 
Anne has completed her first 24 hours at Longleat. Here's wishing her a long and happy retirement where she will be well cared for and loved.
 
1stclassalan said:
That was as I said a very different era but the Spanish Riding School Vienna still trains Lippanzannas to capriole by some extremely doubious methods involving the animal being severely constricted between strudy fixtures. Is this O.K. because it's done in more salubrious surroundings?
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I didn't realise this. It doesn't excuse it, really, does it?

Is it me, or is there more animal cruelty about just lately? Or is it that we're just more aware of it all?
 
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