Boggle- USA bound!

Well Atlas is still lame.. sigh. He looks great in walk but not in trot although he does look more comfortable on his feet in general in terms of stride length etc but definitely unlevel. He came sound and then it seems any amount of running around and being a fool re aggravates things. This is a hard pill to swallow having just spent five figures for him to be hospitalized for some kind of virus, and also a kidney issue that may or may not get him short term or long term- fine for now, but he has one kidney smaller than another and had a huge reaction to bute he was on for lameness.

I'm honestly at a bit of a loss, I have to assume some kind of soft tissue injury in the foot at this point though I'll be getting some blocks at the very least to be sure it's the feet but it sure seems that way. I don't really feel like spending $4,000 ish for an MRI when I've already plowed so much money into him and I'm not even sure what it would change given I would not do any kind of months on end stall rest.

He is currently chilling out on stall/run rest at the barn I used to be at. He's in great spirits and I'm confident with a few weeks rest and no running around, he would be fit/sound enough to travel to California and he will have had a good chunk of time to recover from his illness with consistent great bloodwork (the vets said give him a month, I'm aiming for 6 weeks). Up until he galloped around like a lunatic, he looked really good and sound and I was confident that the composite shoes I'd had put on him had sorted him out. Sigh. I'd honestly prefer to leave him here in Colorado and forget about him for a bit but frankly I don't feel like the snow and ice that's incoming is a great option for a horse with a lameness issue either and I feel like he does need careful eyes on him (my eyes).

But what do I do with him then? Stall/run rest and do some kind of in hand rehab assuming it's soft tissue and/or the sidebone is active? Lob him out in a pasture (he's not a quiet, unplayful pasture mate). Find a happy medium and maybe do 6 weeks stall/run with in hand rehab to try and get him a little further along and then lob him out?

It's sooooo tempting to go chasing diagnostics but I'm honestly not even sure what an MRI would change in terms of what I do. Even if it was pretty dire news, I'd at the very least want to give him a year turned away to give him some sort of chance at coming pasture sound but even then what- he gets fat on fresh air. He's not the kind of horse you can just turn away in a grassy pasture 24/7 and I don't believe those dry lot type situations are really fun for a horse for the rest of it's life when it's getting no stimulus from being ridden etc.

I'm trying to remember the last time I got consistent joy from owning horses and it truly feels like a distant memory :( If I was reading this I'd be thinking PTS PTS PTS this horse has too much going on, but it's really hard when you have a very cheeky, cheerful, beautiful little horse in front of you that does seem to have a way of overcoming things against all odds.

My gut is saying take him to CA, do a 6 week or so stall and run rest period with controlled walking under my care and then turn him out and cross my fingers. But maybe that's just pointless and stupid, IDK at this point.

Sorry all I know this is boring I’m just at a loss :(
 
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If it was me I'd rest him while hes there and then try paddock rest. Having rehabbed a suspensory that was insured and threw the book at it then rehabbing with nothing but time and controlled exercise I'm not sure it made much difference upping the treatment level. Different to hoof soft tissue injuries I know but mine wouldn't box rest so he carried on with turnout as normal.
 
With Skylla she was on livery and I just didn't ride or look to hard after she ran round o_O. After 6 months she looked 'sound' so I started riding her, I could still feel a faint something going downhill but no one else could spot it, I could feel it ridden though. After light hacking for another 12 months, no fast work everything pretty much just in walk, plus a yard move to much kinder flatter grazing she now looks and feels 100% sound.

Not box resting means the process is way way longer, and I don't know the stats to say how many horses would be chronically unsound because they hadn't box rested, but for my case study of one she has come right...
 
It doesn't sound as if you are at the end of the diagnostic road yet and this recent lameness may a) have aggravated the last condition or b) pulled something else new. I think your plan to get him sound enough to travel to CA is a good one and then just see what the vets there make of the whole picture these last few months. He has had a lot going on in that time for a youngster so, depending on their opinion, maybe some extended time just chilling is what might be needed.

With all the tests you have had done on him there surely can't be too much more they can test (or am I being naive?!!) and it is their expert opinion you need so I would just take a deep breath for now and get yourselves settled in your new location and try and get some steady routine into all your lives before making any final decisions.
 
Oh M 😮‍💨 No wonder you’re at a loss, they break your heart these horses don’t they!
I think follow your gut. My young gorgeous, funny, needy, cuddly lad was having issues following various treatments. My gut said bring him home from full livery so that (as you said) I could have ‘my’ eyes on him. I hoped to turn him away and see how he went, even resigned myself to a very loooong retirement for him, sadly his deterioration continued catastrophically 😢 BUT I was so glad I spent the time with him, I was his human.
You know Atlas better than anyone and you can trust yourself to do right by/for him. You are in a position where you can try and get him comfortable enough to be turned away and cross your fingers. On the other hand I can’t imagine you’d ever PTS without a definite diagnosis. How much would it cost to keep him for 18 months versus cost of an MRI? Also on another thought, is it still the same foot that had the abscess? Again these can rumble along - and coincidentally my lad that had recurring abscesses also had intolerance to any form of anti inflammatories 🤷‍♀️
Trying to do right for any of our animals can be so overwhelming at times. We can only look at what’s in front of us and make our decisions with their best interests at heart, even though it does sometimes feel like playing god.

Echo Troupers advise above about taking a deep breath too 👍🏻
 
Trouper said:
It doesn't sound as if you are at the end of the diagnostic road yet and this recent lameness may a) have aggravated the last condition or b) pulled something else new. I think your plan to get him sound enough to travel to CA is a good one and then just see what the vets there make of the whole picture these last few months. He has had a lot going on in that time for a youngster so, depending on their opinion, maybe some extended time just chilling is what might be needed.

With all the tests you have had done on him there surely can't be too much more they can test (or am I being naive?!!) and it is their expert opinion you need so I would just take a deep breath for now and get yourselves settled in your new location and try and get some steady routine into all your lives before making any final decisions.
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I think realistically all that's left is an MRI and nerve blocking to isolate as much as we can as to where it is in the hoof.

On a more bigger picture, it's unlucky that he got EPM. It's unlucky that he "may" have renal dysplasia, his kidneys are currently ok, but one is smaller and it takes time for bloodwork to show a huge loss in function, they have had to have lost a lot, so that may be in store for him soon. Or not. It's unlucky that he got some random virus/infection that landed him in hospital albeit he was treated so aggressively he didn't develop laminitis or pneumonia.

Or, it's not unlucky and, lameness aside, this is a horse with a weakened immune system or something systemically wrong. Apparently there are some immunity type tests I can run (simple enough bloodwork) and I will definitely be doing that in the next couple of weeks once his normal bloods are run.

Hard, urgh. He's just such a happy little dude!
 
Floofball said:
Oh M 😮‍💨 No wonder you’re at a loss, they break your heart these horses don’t they!
I think follow your gut. My young gorgeous, funny, needy, cuddly lad was having issues following various treatments. My gut said bring him home from full livery so that (as you said) I could have ‘my’ eyes on him. I hoped to turn him away and see how he went, even resigned myself to a very loooong retirement for him, sadly his deterioration continued catastrophically 😢 BUT I was so glad I spent the time with him, I was his human.
You know Atlas better than anyone and you can trust yourself to do right by/for him. You are in a position where you can try and get him comfortable enough to be turned away and cross your fingers. On the other hand I can’t imagine you’d ever PTS without a definite diagnosis. How much would it cost to keep him for 18 months versus cost of an MRI? Also on another thought, is it still the same foot that had the abscess? Again these can rumble along - and coincidentally my lad that had recurring abscesses also had intolerance to any form of anti inflammatories 🤷‍♀️
Trying to do right for any of our animals can be so overwhelming at times. We can only look at what’s in front of us and make our decisions with their best interests at heart, even though it does sometimes feel like playing god.

Echo Troupers advise above about taking a deep breath too 👍🏻
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I mean including board at the location near to my house and not the options 45 mins away, and his fancy composite shoes, and his other things.. he's a $2,200 a month pony. That doesn't include my $400 a month (yep you read that right, USA tells me I'm a "new driver") truck insurance.

So it's pretty crazy. I could get this down to $500 or so by retiring him out of state, not shoeing, no supplements/EPM maintenance meds etc. Ultimately, longer term if he makes it that far, I'd hope to have a property that could keep him at home.

I guess though even if the MRI shows he's obliterated all his soft tissue, I'd still want to give him a year to give him a chance, so I'm not sure an MRI would change what I'd do? Unless it showed something really crazy but that seems unlikely given he does come sound with rest.

Thanks for your post I appreciate it. It is crazy overwhelming at times but I will figure it out, I always do!
 
Michen said:
Well Atlas is still lame.. sigh. He looks great in walk but not in trot although he does look more comfortable on his feet in general in terms of stride length etc but definitely unlevel. He came sound and then it seems any amount of running around and being a fool re aggravates things. This is a hard pill to swallow having just spent five figures for him to be hospitalized for some kind of virus, and also a kidney issue that may or may not get him short term or long term- fine for now, but he has one kidney smaller than another and had a huge reaction to bute he was on for lameness.

I'm honestly at a bit of a loss, I have to assume some kind of soft tissue injury in the foot at this point though I'll be getting some blocks at the very least to be sure it's the feet but it sure seems that way. I don't really feel like spending $4,000 ish for an MRI when I've already plowed so much money into him and I'm not even sure what it would change given I would not do any kind of months on end stall rest.

He is currently chilling out on stall/run rest at the barn I used to be at. He's in great spirits and I'm confident with a few weeks rest and no running around, he would be fit/sound enough to travel to California and he will have had a good chunk of time to recover from his illness with consistent great bloodwork (the vets said give him a month, I'm aiming for 6 weeks). Up until he galloped around like a lunatic, he looked really good and sound and I was confident that the composite shoes I'd had put on him had sorted him out. Sigh. I'd honestly prefer to leave him here in Colorado and forget about him for a bit but frankly I don't feel like the snow and ice that's incoming is a great option for a horse with a lameness issue either and I feel like he does need careful eyes on him (my eyes).

But what do I do with him then? Stall/run rest and do some kind of in hand rehab assuming it's soft tissue and/or the sidebone is active? Lob him out in a pasture (he's not a quiet, unplayful pasture mate). Find a happy medium and maybe do 6 weeks stall/run with in hand rehab to try and get him a little further along and then lob him out?

It's sooooo tempting to go chasing diagnostics but I'm honestly not even sure what an MRI would change in terms of what I do. Even if it was pretty dire news, I'd at the very least want to give him a year turned away to give him some sort of chance at coming pasture sound but even then what- he gets fat on fresh air. He's not the kind of horse you can just turn away in a grassy pasture 24/7 and I don't believe those dry lot type situations are really fun for a horse for the rest of it's life when it's getting no stimulus from being ridden etc.

I'm trying to remember the last time I got consistent joy from owning horses and it truly feels like a distant memory :( If I was reading this I'd be thinking PTS PTS PTS this horse has too much going on, but it's really hard when you have a very cheeky, cheerful, beautiful little horse in front of you that does seem to have a way of overcoming things against all odds.

My gut is saying take him to CA, do a 6 week or so stall and run rest period with controlled walking under my care and then turn him out and cross my fingers. But maybe that's just pointless and stupid, IDK at this point.

Sorry all I know this is boring I’m just at a loss :(
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Very sorry you have had another blow. It could be some very deep seated soft tissue injury/abscess. My old horse was hopping lame for 8 months, x rays etc did not find anything. We chucked him out in the field and he came sound. He was 8 and I rode him until he was 27 and he lived to 29. No idea if this is anything similar but if it not going to do him any harm maybe it is worth just resting him for a while and see what happens. 🤞you can get him right, you just seem to have had the most awful luck.
 
Hi michen just a thought on the side bone,the yard I work at had a horse what fractured his side bone in 2 places which weren't found on initial x-rays. Apparently it's quite common to not see the hair line fractures until a couple of weeks once the bone has started to heal and the fracture has calcified,then it's easier to see as it shows up more prominent. It took a fair few months of watching him like a hawk but he made a full recovery but did have a rather large lump
 
Probably no comfort to you, but my broodmare has been lame on front right 2/10s and left front 1/10 for the best part of a year. Spent £££ on diagnostics with no answers. Didn't box rest as she would have hated it. Recently taken her off the bute and she's pretty much sound!!! No idea of cause but just thought I would post a positive story. Miracles do happen!
 
Michen said:
Well Atlas is still lame.. sigh. He looks great in walk but not in trot although he does look more comfortable on his feet in general in terms of stride length etc but definitely unlevel. He came sound and then it seems any amount of running around and being a fool re aggravates things. This is a hard pill to swallow having just spent five figures for him to be hospitalized for some kind of virus, and also a kidney issue that may or may not get him short term or long term- fine for now, but he has one kidney smaller than another and had a huge reaction to bute he was on for lameness.

I'm honestly at a bit of a loss, I have to assume some kind of soft tissue injury in the foot at this point though I'll be getting some blocks at the very least to be sure it's the feet but it sure seems that way. I don't really feel like spending $4,000 ish for an MRI when I've already plowed so much money into him and I'm not even sure what it would change given I would not do any kind of months on end stall rest.

He is currently chilling out on stall/run rest at the barn I used to be at. He's in great spirits and I'm confident with a few weeks rest and no running around, he would be fit/sound enough to travel to California and he will have had a good chunk of time to recover from his illness with consistent great bloodwork (the vets said give him a month, I'm aiming for 6 weeks). Up until he galloped around like a lunatic, he looked really good and sound and I was confident that the composite shoes I'd had put on him had sorted him out. Sigh. I'd honestly prefer to leave him here in Colorado and forget about him for a bit but frankly I don't feel like the snow and ice that's incoming is a great option for a horse with a lameness issue either and I feel like he does need careful eyes on him (my eyes).

But what do I do with him then? Stall/run rest and do some kind of in hand rehab assuming it's soft tissue and/or the sidebone is active? Lob him out in a pasture (he's not a quiet, unplayful pasture mate). Find a happy medium and maybe do 6 weeks stall/run with in hand rehab to try and get him a little further along and then lob him out?

It's sooooo tempting to go chasing diagnostics but I'm honestly not even sure what an MRI would change in terms of what I do. Even if it was pretty dire news, I'd at the very least want to give him a year turned away to give him some sort of chance at coming pasture sound but even then what- he gets fat on fresh air. He's not the kind of horse you can just turn away in a grassy pasture 24/7 and I don't believe those dry lot type situations are really fun for a horse for the rest of it's life when it's getting no stimulus from being ridden etc.

I'm trying to remember the last time I got consistent joy from owning horses and it truly feels like a distant memory :( If I was reading this I'd be thinking PTS PTS PTS this horse has too much going on, but it's really hard when you have a very cheeky, cheerful, beautiful little horse in front of you that does seem to have a way of overcoming things against all odds.

My gut is saying take him to CA, do a 6 week or so stall and run rest period with controlled walking under my care and then turn him out and cross my fingers. But maybe that's just pointless and stupid, IDK at this point.

Sorry all I know this is boring I’m just at a loss :(
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There's no 'right' or 'wrong' in this, so just go with your gut xx
 
For a horse at his age and stage I don't think there is ever harm in just leaving them for several months and seeing what you are left with.
I know getting to that point is still a challenge (where you feel he is well enough to turn away) but if you can get through that in 6-8 weeks, move to Cali where the weather is more kind to turning away in the winter, and see what you have next easter after you have both had a break from this general c**p, that would be my preference.
Nerve blocking isn't expensive and could isolate the foot in the meantime. The only reason to spend more $$ on an MRI is if the results of it would dictate a PTS decision which I guess would save you several months of not knowing and ending up in the same position next spring, but only you can decide that. If you'd still be giving him a chance anyway then I don't see the sense in that now, you can save it up for the future if he isn't better
 
I also agree with just turning him away to pasture but with the support you would do if he was working/rehabbing. Like just hang out and grooming and loving on him. Don’t look at how sound he is (unless near crippled) see if your vet friend has any immune support supplements she thinks hold some merit and give him a year. It’s hard to do when they aren’t sound and aren’t quiet in turn out but honestly that pain can help deter some of the antics. He’s young see what you have at the end of a year. I’m not sure this is one knowing the answer will actually help. I’m the same in wanting to constantly dig for answers but sometimes it’s better to just wait and see. Also while it sucks these things can be an opportunity to reset and focus on enjoying the small steps forward and just enjoy existing with them even if it isn’t under great circumstances. He’s still happy and cheeky and unless he starts acting not like himself I would classify him as turnout suitable personally from how you’ve described it.
 
Thank you so much for the very thoughtful replies, and great advice!! You are all right as usual :)

I left Colorado for California on Monday, and on friday I head to Spain for a holiday that I delayed due to the Atlas drama. Actually, it's been good to get "out" of the situation and have some headspace. I have the vet arranged a few weeks from now and I'm going to go ahead with my plan to get him to California and see how things pan out. I do think I'll try and do a 6 week or so controlled rehab type thing, given it seems to be when he starts mucking around that he lames himself again. Hopefully whatever it is (and thank you for the info re the sidebone case, I do think that could be the source of our problems), will get him over the worst before he can be turned out.

I truly have no expectations for him at this point. I shouldn't really have from the moment he was ataxic in feb. Of course I got my hopes up that he could be a great ridden partner for me as he's such a cool little horse, but it is what it is.

It's been a lot the last few weeks, months, year. So much happiness and so much sadness. I don't know if it reached UK news but there was a school shooting in Evergreen, the town I've called home since being in this country. It happened as Atlas got sick (before we moved him to the ranch), and by chance D and I ended up staying with some friends and their kids and we were all just in our own bubble of despair. To have a shooting so close to "home", in a town you feel so safe in, was sickening and a stark reminder of the country we are in. I can't tell you the strengthened bond we formed over the last 2 weeks living with them. We all kind of grouped together and just formed this bubble, lots of meals, drinks, chat, connection. The kids just adore D (I've been replaced there, just like my dog replaced me with him!!) and despite the absolute s*** show of the last few weeks, it was also a really special time that I'll look back on, surprisingly, with fondness.There's not often a time where you'll end up living with friends for a couple of weeks in an emergency situation and all needing eachother for different reasons.

So, we didn't move out of Colorado as planned. Atlas nearly broke my heart (again), but we also had the most amazing extra few weeks in Colorado that would never have happened if it hadn't been for the bad circumstances. I am so, so sad to be leaving and I desperately don't want to... there's been a lot of tears. It's really hard when you builld an entire life in a new place, having left your entire life 3 years prior, to uproot everything again. I left Colorado so broken hearted over Boggle but I went back, with Atlas and with my OH and re created good memories. BUT we have an amazing life waiting for us in California, and I am loving throwing myself into my career which I never, ever dreamt of or expected.

I hope Atlas will come right, he will be given every chance. And in the mean time, maybe if you guys spy an extra cute Boggle/Atlas type of pony over in the UK you can send the advert my way .... ;) Ya know... just incase.

The crazy, harsh, beautiful adventure continues. Still with a cheeky ginger and a crazy spaniel in tow. And I miss my Bog every damn day, but what a life he set me up with. I am the most unspiritual person ever but I swear that pony never really left. I'll update when we are ALL landed in California!
 
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