Bolting... is it me?!

[littleshetland]

I feed mine hay and fibre nuts...nothing else but basically just grass. No sugars, no Alfalfa, no grains etc etc. He's got loads of energy, and doesn't really need any more. I've heard that in Spain they're used to sparse diet, and do well on it. I don't mean to sound pompous about your riding ability..I'm certainly no expert.. but perhaps you're trying too hard to achieve the perfect outline? Ive found with mine, to settle his busy little brain, that I do a lot of lateral work to keep him thinking. Shoulder-in, leg yields, half passes etc and then he settles, and actually can become a bit lazy but willing (?) I know this sounds contradictory , but they're funny little horses aren't they...but I do love them!

 

[littleshetland]

From what you're writing, it seems like your aids may be shouting rather than whispering. If the horses' normal way of going isn't in an outline, they are unlikely to have the muscle memory to stay in an outline for a long time. This leads to fatigue and discomfort. Then they will want to move away from that, if there's no give then they'll panic.

I would suggest short and sweet bits of outline, with soft contact rather than holding them in, the back end does the work so you need to power that up. Maybe a long stretchy trot on a 20m circle, gently gathering up the reins to find the sweet spot. Then let them stretch for a circuit or two before gathering them up again. You don't need to hold them together, they can do that themselves.

Yes, this too. Lateral work will help straighten them up and aid collection without the use of girt big aids.

 

[CanteringCarrot]

I also find that mine enjoys ground work. He likes doing tricks and learning new things. I also began shoulder in and some leg yielding type work with him on the ground when he was younger. He gets a lot of confidence from his rider/handler, so I make sure to stroke his ego a bit and let him know that he's the best horse at all things horse when he does something correctly. So really make sure you are "showing them the way" and what you want.

I've occasionally left mine hanging, as in didn't give him direction in a situation where he needed direction and he then made up his own answer ...which was usually a bit "extra" so if you feel them start to suck back or question something (hey, mine spooked at his own pile of poo when he was younger) be there to guide them forward. Give them the confidence. Eventually they'll need less support from you as their training progresses.

Also, If the horse spooks don't carry on about it for minutes on end, just push them through it and continue with what you were doing. I generally* ignore mine and continue with whatever we are doing. If I give him a way out/evasion, he will take it. So I have to be careful there. If he spooks doing something during a difficult exercise or something he doesn't particularly care for, and and I switch to something else, his little devil horns pop up and he thinks "hehe now we're doing something else instead of that other thing"

So if the spook is small and rideable, continue. If you've got to take a detour in your plan to manage the spook, make sure to return to what you were doing before. Or maybe this is just my creature who is both hot and lazy ?

*you've got to feel it out though. Most of the time carrying on is best, but sometimes their "worry basket" over flows and they need to take a moment or have a good hard look/introduction to what they were spooking at.

 

[iberianfr]

From what you're writing, it seems like your aids may be shouting rather than whispering. If the horses' normal way of going isn't in an outline, they are unlikely to have the muscle memory to stay in an outline for a long time. This leads to fatigue and discomfort. Then they will want to move away from that, if there's no give then they'll panic.

I would suggest short and sweet bits of outline, with soft contact rather than holding them in, the back end does the work so you need to power that up. Maybe a long stretchy trot on a 20m circle, gently gathering up the reins to find the sweet spot. Then let them stretch for a circuit or two before gathering them up again. You don't need to hold them together, they can do that themselves.

By the way, I really dislike the phrase "on the bit". It's not correct, a horse isn't going correctly if you're hanging onto the reins to get the curled up neck effect. That's only one quarter of the horse underneath you.

That makes sense - they are both 5 so obviously not very experienced so maybe I'm just asking for too much in one session. I was really just trying to get them to lower their heads and focus on me as they are also quite reactive to the surrounding (e.g. horses around, sound of cars even if they are away from the yard etc)

 

[PinkvSantaboots]

Does the owner ride them?

 

[iberianfr]

I also find that mine enjoys ground work. He likes doing tricks and learning new things. I also began shoulder in and some leg yielding type work with him on the ground when he was younger. He gets a lot of confidence from his rider/handler, so I make sure to stroke his ego a bit and let him know that he's the best horse at all things horse when he does something correctly. So really make sure you are "showing them the way" and what you want.

I've occasionally left mine hanging, as in didn't give him direction in a situation where he needed direction and he then made up his own answer ...which was usually a bit "extra" so if you feel them start to suck back or question something (hey, mine spooked at his own pile of poo when he was younger) be there to guide them forward. Give them the confidence. Eventually they'll need less support from you as their training progresses.

Also, If the horse spooks don't carry on about it for minutes on end, just push them through it and continue with what you were doing. I generally* ignore mine and continue with whatever we are doing. If I give him a way out/evasion, he will take it. So I have to be careful there. If he spooks doing something during a difficult exercise or something he doesn't particularly care for, and and I switch to something else, his little devil horns pop up and he thinks "hehe now we're doing something else instead of that other thing"

So if the spook is small and rideable, continue. If you've got to take a detour in your plan to manage the spook, make sure to return to what you were doing before. Or maybe this is just my creature who is both hot and lazy ?

*you've got to feel it out though. Most of the time carrying on is best, but sometimes their "worry basket" over flows and they need to take a moment or have a good hard look/introduction to what they were spooking at.

When mine spook they take a ''bolt'' (again, i just use this word) around the arena, it can go on for minutes in proper extended canter where I obviously don't pull on the reins as it will just set them off even more so i just have to sit through it until they get tired and stop. What is your opinion on keeping them in canter despite them wanting to slow down after a while? i heard that can teach a horse that taking off doens't pay off as then he will have to put a lot of effort

 

[iberianfr]

Does the owner ride them?

Not currently as she is heavily pregnant so she hasn't in a month or two. They get lunged by yard staff on days when I don't come to ride.

 

[Flamenco]

When I first rode my PRE he did everything too fast. He needs literally a tenth of the hand and leg aids of most TBs.

He listens to your weight aids, and if he spooks/ shoots off he stops almost instantly the second your weight aids say stop. However if you lose your balance or have a tendancy to lean forwards (when he spooks?) your weight is saying "go" so he ignores the less important to him rein aids.

I let one of the teenagers at the yard (who is a lovely rider) ride mine for a treat as he's a lovely schoolmaster but she found him a nightmare. All her aids were too strong, she held him into an outline and he felt trapped.

Instead of thinking outline think soft contact. A bit like how you hold a toddlers hand gently most of the time and only more firmly to stop them running into the road etc. Don't worry about where his head is, just contain the forward energy and you'll get a proper outline.

Hopefully some of this helps!

 

[iberianfr]

I feed mine hay and fibre nuts...nothing else but basically just grass. No sugars, no Alfalfa, no grains etc etc. He's got loads of energy, and doesn't really need any more. I've heard that in Spain they're used to sparse diet, and do well on it. I don't mean to sound pompous about your riding ability..I'm certainly no expert.. but perhaps you're trying too hard to achieve the perfect outline? Ive found with mine, to settle his busy little brain, that I do a lot of lateral work to keep him thinking. Shoulder-in, leg yields, half passes etc and then he settles, and actually can become a bit lazy but willing (?) I know this sounds contradictory , but they're funny little horses aren't they...but I do love them!

To be honest I'm starting to think the more I try to improve the worse effects it's giving me... There were times before when I had a 'recreational' riding phase and I didn't pay any attention to half halts or collection, I was just doing trail rides on the beach etc. and most of my horses were completely confident and not misbehaving at all. Then I started schooling and clearly no matter how hard I try, it's just getting worse and worse

 

[CanteringCarrot]

When mine spook they take a ''bolt'' (again, i just use this word) around the arena, it can go on for minutes in proper extended canter where I obviously don't pull on the reins as it will just set them off even more so i just have to sit through it until they get tired and stop. What is your opinion on keeping them in canter despite them wanting to slow down after a while? i heard that can teach a horse that taking off doens't pay off as then he will have to put a lot of effort

Yes, I have used that before. If the horse wanted to run/canter around, then we did. When they wanted to stop, we kept going. We stopped when I said stop. It was no longer the horse's idea and it became work, therefore less fun. But that was with a horse that was genuinely taking the P and not scared, hurt, or otherwise. So I would only recommend this with the supervision of a professional. If you begin telling them to run they could also think "wow, so that really was something to run away from" and could wind them up more.

It's hard to recommend things sometimes without being on or around the horse and rider, so it's really best to keep working with your instructor as often as possible and remember the feeling you get during your lessons and try to remember that on your own. You could also listen to music while riding to help things relax.

 

[iberianfr]

Yes, I have used that before. If the horse wanted to run/canter around, then we did. When they wanted to stop, we kept going. We stopped when I said stop. It was no longer the horse's idea and it became work, therefore less fun. But that was with a horse that was genuinely taking the P and not scared, hurt, or otherwise. So I would only recommend this with the supervision of a professional. If you begin telling them to run they could also think "wow, so that really was something to run away from" and could wind them up more.

It's hard to recommend things sometimes without being on or around the horse and rider, so it's really best to keep working with your instructor as often as possible and remember the feeling you get during your lessons and try to remember that on your own. You could also listen to music while riding to help things relax.

Yeah I'm also starting to feel less confident in my instructor as he does tell me to half halt all the time and very firmly until the horses get their head down and curl the neck... He doesn't completely ignore my legs but he definitely puts a lot of emphasis on my hands and it seems like the horses don't like it

 

[HeyMich]

I was really just trying to get them to lower their heads and focus on me as they are also quite reactive to the surrounding (e.g. horses around, sound of cars even if they are away from the yard etc)

If you are trying to get them to lower their heads, forget about an 'outline' as such, but instead try getting them to stretch long and low. It's a much kinder and gentler way to get them to engage their core and stretch out the neck muscles, rather than tightening them.

And by the way you say that they both react the same, I'd agree that it's your reactions/riding, rather than a problem with them, so to speak. I'd get a decent instructor, with experience of iberians, and see what they can see from the ground. Good luck x

 

[splashgirl45]

i would ask that you stop using the word bolting, they are spooking and running off which is completely normal, if you use the word bolting it will get fixed in peoples minds and they will have a reputation that they dont deserve. they are both very young to be forced into an outline and it sounds like your instructor isnt as sympathetic as he could be. i have never ridden an iberian horse but friends who own them say it took them a long time to get the hang of riding them so you may just need to spend longer hacking them out and getting to know the best way to manage their way of going. if they are both going along with their heads in the air you need to soften your hands and try lots of transitions , also leg yield is a good exercise to get them to lower. if you go online you can find lots of exercises to do which helps to get the back end engaged and therefore the front will improve naturally. the other thing you could do is get someone to video you when you are riding on your own and watch yourself back and analyse how you think the rider (you) could do something different. good luck

 

[littleshetland]

Can you find an instructor who's more familiar with PRE's or similar 'hot' types? I think we all know how difficult it is to ride horses when their heads are stuck-up in the air, and their necks and bodies feel like iron. It sounds like you just need a bit of help finding the right way forward. Try sourcing some different help, and perhaps make discreet enquiries about the type of feed they're having (this can have a huge impact). And don't think you're failing...Pre's are a bit different from other horses. I think it's the sign of a good horseman/horsewoman when they are prepared to seek out help and advice. Good luck!

 

[Arzada]

They get lunged by yard staff on days when I don't come to ride.

That would worry me.

Are they being schooled on the lunge and if so how are they being schooled and for how long?

Or are they being sent round on a circle to let off steam? Or as you put it when you are riding 'they take a ''bolt'' (again, i just use this word) around the arena, it can go on for minutes in proper extended canter where I obviously don't pull on the reins as it will just set them off even more so i just have to sit through it until they get tired and stop.'

 

[iberianfr]

That would worry me.

Are they being schooled on the lunge and if so how are they being schooled and for how long?

Or are they being sent round on a circle to let off steam? Or as you put it when you are riding 'they take a ''bolt'' (again, i just use this word) around the arena, it can go on for minutes in proper extended canter where I obviously don't pull on the reins as it will just set them off even more so i just have to sit through it until they get tired and stop.'

I'm not there when they get schooled of course so I can't tell if this is 100 % true but I was told they get lots of transitions and are not cantered much, at the moment mostly working on walk and trot. So it would be weird if they got used to cantering from the lunging. One more thing I was considering is excess energy in general as currently they don't go out to the field at all so they are kind of in lockdown, only allowed out for their daily exercise...

 

[iberianfr]

Can you find an instructor who's more familiar with PRE's or similar 'hot' types? I think we all know how difficult it is to ride horses when their heads are stuck-up in the air, and their necks and bodies feel like iron. It sounds like you just need a bit of help finding the right way forward. Try sourcing some different help, and perhaps make discreet enquiries about the type of feed they're having (this can have a huge impact). And don't think you're failing...Pre's are a bit different from other horses. I think it's the sign of a good horseman/horsewoman when they are prepared to seek out help and advice. Good luck!

Was thinking about it a little however everybody praises my instructor so much, he's very popular at the yard and he tends to train other people who have thoroughbreds and arabs so I thought an iberian wouldn't be an issue at all

 

[littleshetland]

I'm not there when they get schooled of course so I can't tell if this is 100 % true but I was told they get lots of transitions and are not cantered much, at the moment mostly working on walk and trot. So it would be weird if they got used to cantering from the lunging. One more thing I was considering is excess energy in general as currently they don't go out to the field at all so they are kind of in lockdown, only allowed out for their daily exercise...

So, they're getting lunged..but only in walk and trot? no cantering? and they're not getting any turn out at all? and you're not sure of what type of feed they're receiving?

 

[HeyMich]

One more thing I was considering is excess energy in general as currently they don't go out to the field at all so they are kind of in lockdown, only allowed out for their daily exercise...

Ah, this might go a little way to explain things.

Also, are you hacking/riding solo or in company? 5 yrs old isn't very old at all really, they may not have been out and seen the world, so a lack of confidence (and therefore spooking/running) may be expected.

 

[iberianfr]

So, they're getting lunged..but only in walk and trot? no cantering? and they're not getting any turn out at all? and you're not sure of what type of feed they're receiving?

I know how it sounds lol! But they're not my horses so I can't be dictating what the owner does with them...

The lounging sounds like they get a proper session as it's long and engaging. But yes, no turn out for 5 year old horses can definitely affect them I know.

 

[littleshetland]

Was thinking about it a little however everybody praises my instructor so much, he's very popular at the yard and he tends to train other people who have thoroughbreds and arabs so I thought an iberian wouldn't be an issue at all

Does he ride them at all?

 

[iberianfr]

Ah, this might go a little way to explain things.

Also, are you hacking/riding solo or in company? 5 yrs old isn't very old at all really, they may not have been out and seen the world, so a lack of confidence (and therefore spooking/running) may be expected.

I'm not currently hacking as I thought they're not really ready for it based on their behavior in the arena. Unfortunately their spookiness isn't affected by whether there are other horses in the arena for them to seek reassurance from or not. When there aren't any horses, they spook, when there are, they spook too but also keep on trying to trot up to the other horses to make a friend.

 

[Arzada]

I'm not there when they get schooled of course so I can't tell if this is 100 % true but I was told they get lots of transitions and are not cantered much, at the moment mostly working on walk and trot. So it would be weird if they got used to cantering from the lunging. One more thing I was considering is excess energy in general as currently they don't go out to the field at all so they are kind of in lockdown, only allowed out for their daily exercise...

Well I wouldn't school a horse on the lunge for more than 20 minutes and most likely not even that long. These young horses are pretty much 'stabled' 24/7. I would not be involved in this scenario at all. If you remain involved please stay safe.

 

[iberianfr]

Does he ride them at all?

Not at the moment but I think the owner is going to ask him to

 

[HeyMich]

So, just to re-cap...

2 x 5 yr old PREs, who's owner is effectively totally hands off. You have no control over their feeding regime. They get no turnout and no daily interaction with other horses. They are only ridden/lunged in an arena. They are lunged by yard staff when you cannot ride. Your instructor may not have any experience of iberian horses. Yet it's you who is potentially injured/killed when they spook.

Hmm... I'd maybe take a moment and think about your situation, and if it's right for you. Please stay safe.

 

[littleshetland]

I know how it sounds lol! But they're not my horses so I can't be dictating what the owner does with them...

The lounging sounds like they get a proper session as it's long and engaging. But yes, no turn out for 5 year old horses can definitely affect them I know.

If you're responsible for schooling/riding them, then you're having a direct impact on them. I would say its very much your business to find out what type of feeding and management regime they're on. Its for your safety and confidence and will have a huge impact on the progress of the horses themselves. They're only babies, and how they're ridden and their management now will impact them for the rest of their lives.

 

[mini_b]

Baby horses
No turnout
Unsure of the feeding regimen
Lack of consistency in work

this sounds like a management issue not just whatever you are doing when you’re in the saddle.
Even if you take some tips and adapt your riding, without a holistic approach they are unlikely to get much better.

I know absolutely nothing about PRE’s but would say the above about any horse.

 

[iberianfr]

So, just to re-cap...

2 x 5 yr old PREs, who's owner is effectively totally hands off. You have no control over their feeding regime. They get no turnout and no daily interaction with other horses. They are only ridden/lunged in an arena. They are lunged by yard staff when you cannot ride. Your instructor may not have any experience of iberian horses. Yet it's you who is potentially injured/killed when they spook.

Hmm... I'd maybe take a moment and think about your situation, and if it's right for you. Please stay safe.

Well, the owner has had multiple different breeds before (and she did have PREs) and she has way more experience than me so it was only reasonable of me to trust in her feeding/exercising regime (again, all her other horses are fed the same as well, maybe slightly more or less in quantity depending on age etc). On top of that she told me that sometimes she used to not exercise them for days at a time and just keep them out on the field and then get on and they'd be totally fine. So I guess I just assumed it's mainly me

 

[littleshetland]

Well, the owner has had multiple different breeds before (and she did have PREs) and she has way more experience than me so it was only reasonable of me to trust in her feeding/exercising regime (again, all her other horses are fed the same as well, maybe slightly more or less in quantity depending on age etc). On top of that she told me that sometimes she used to not exercise them for days at a time and just keep them out on the field and then get on and they'd be totally fine. So I guess I just assumed it's mainly me

..'not exercise them for days at a time and just keep them out in the field .....' Keeping horse out in the field goes a long way to ensuring their energy levels are at a sensible level. Can you have a serious discussion with the owner about how they're managed? Perhaps request that they have some turn out? and, please try and find out what their being fed...I can't stress this enough!!

 

[iberianfr]

..'not exercise them for days at a time and just keep them out in the field .....' Keeping horse out in the field goes a long way to ensuring their energy levels are at a sensible level. Can you have a serious discussion with the owner about how they're managed? Perhaps request that they have some turn out? and, please try and find out what their being fed...I can't stress this enough!!

Yeah I completely agree. I did ask before but I was told they are prone to get mud fever and the weather has been so wet as usual in winter months