Bolting... is it me?!

[splashgirl45]

what a horrible life these babies are having, stuck in a stable 24/7 and only allowed out to run round in circles and then schooled in the arena , its no wonder they are spooky, any horse would be when treated like that. keeping them out in the field would obviously make a massive difference to their energy levels as they could have a gallop and a buck and get all that out of their system and then be more relaxed when ridden.. did you not realise what a difference turn out makes to horses? not just pre's....lots of horses get mud fever but it can be managed, is there no way they can be turned out in the school for a bit of freedom and fun to just be a horse

 

[iberianfr]

what a horrible life these babies are having, stuck in a stable 24/7 and only allowed out to run round in circles and then schooled in the arena , its no wonder they are spooky, any horse would be when treated like that. keeping them out in the field would obviously make a massive difference to their energy levels as they could have a gallop and a buck and get all that out of their system and then be more relaxed when ridden.. did you not realise what a difference turn out makes to horses? not just pre's....lots of horses get mud fever but it can be managed, is there no way they can be turned out in the school for a bit of freedom and fun to just be a horse

again, it's not really up to me. i did ask the owner, she told me no. it's not like i am the one not letting them out but i understand what you all are saying.

other owners' horses seem to be much better even though they aren't turned out either - but then again they are not 5 and some of them also go in carriages in pairs.

 

[shortstuff99]

Quick question are you UK or Spain based as that sounds a typical way of keeping them in Spain. Also are they gelded or entire?

Riding a PRE long and low is very hardwork for them and takes a long time to build up to (mine took 8 years to get it properly)!

I would work on rhythm and suppleness, lots of lateral work into a soft steady contact (like holding a small bird). I would also look up stirrup stepping, this involves putting a small amount of weight into the stirrup (like pressing on an accelerator pedal) as you use a gentle squeeze on the reins. If you do this as the hind legs come under you will help to raise the forehand an slow the pace. The contact will then start to come.

 

[Arzada]

On top of that she told me that sometimes she used to not exercise them for days at a time and just keep them out on the field and then get on and they'd be totally fine. So I guess I just assumed it's mainly me

It isn't you. Extract yourself from this. Keeping horses in solitary confinement is completely unacceptable. Subjecting yourself to the effects of this on their bodies and minds is also completely unacceptable. It's guaranteed that they would be totally different living out ie in a way that suits a horse.

 

[iberianfr]

Quick question are you UK or Spain based as that sounds a typical way of keeping them in Spain. Also are they gelded or entire?

Riding a PRE long and low is very hardwork for them and takes a long time to build up to (mine took 8 years to get it properly)!

I would work on rhythm and suppleness, lots of lateral work into a soft steady contact (like holding a small bird). I would also look up stirrup stepping, this involves putting a small amount of weight into the stirrup (like pressing on an accelerator pedal) as you use a gentle squeeze on the reins. If you do this as the hind legs come under you will help to raise the forehand an slow the pace. The contact will then start to come.

I'm in UK actually! They are gelded.

I think maybe I have underestimated how much slow and steady work this requires - I had seen the owner and her sister ride them before the owner got too pregnant and they both kept them quite tight with their head low, not sure if with strength or they just figured it out better than me. I was then just trying to improve as much as I can as I think I will only be riding them during the owner's pregnancy and perhaps a little after she gives birth so I wanted to make the most out of my time with them and the trainer.

 

[iberianfr]

It isn't you. Extract yourself from this. Keeping horses in solitary confinement is completely unacceptable. Subjecting yourself to the effects of this on their bodies and minds is also completely unacceptable. It's guaranteed that they would be totally different living out ie in a way that suits a horse.

I mean, they are stabled next to other horses and they can look through to the other horse's stable. But I get they can't really play, groom one another and stuff. Just wanted to make sure you know they are not isolated without anyone in sight

 

[Arzada]

I mean, they are stabled next to other horses and they can look through to the other horse's stable. But I get they can't really play, groom one another and stuff. Just wanted to make sure you know they are not isolated without anyone in sight

I know that you do not decide on the way they are kept. Simply seeing others is still not acceptable. They are being denied freedom to move, freedom to be with others, etc. You are not in a position to change the way they are kept. I would not be complicit in this. Consider if you're OK with the way they are being treated. Not simply from their POV You are endangering yourself while they remain spooky and desperate for movement. I would be very surprised if they aren't shooting off on the lunge exactly as they are shooting off under saddle. If you stay involved I would suggest that you lunge them and let them tell you what usually happens on the lunge.

 

[shortstuff99]

I'm in UK actually! They are gelded.

I think maybe I have underestimated how much slow and steady work this requires - I had seen the owner and her sister ride them before the owner got too pregnant and they both kept them quite tight with their head low, not sure if with strength or they just figured it out better than me. I was then just trying to improve as much as I can as I think I will only be riding them during the owner's pregnancy and perhaps a little after she gives birth so I wanted to make the most out of my time with them and the trainer.

Without watching them ride, but from how you describe I am guessing they are just forcing the head in using strength. This is not really a way to ride dressage and won't improve your riding either. While the process may seem slow you will learn a lot from it!

 

[littleshetland]

Try and organise some sort of turn out for them...even if its just a turn out area or arena. Try and find out what sort of feed they're on, and adjust (if you can) accordingly. Can YOU lunge before riding them? perhaps letting them lunge first before you get on may well help. Find a new job? Just one more question....how much schooling of horses have you done previously? There's a world of difference between trail riding and hacking and actually schooling a horse....

 

[Flamenco]

My PRE is very sensitive to sugar and was actually much quieter / less spooky when in 24/7 (due to mud fever, not my choice) so this isn't necessarily the issue. He is extremely sensitive to grass though. Lots are stabled 24/7 in Spain too...

Are they explosive or is it normal spooking? If explosive / reactive rather than responsive then its probably a diet (sugar/minerals) issue, so if you can't do anything about it I'd stay safe and walk away.

If its normal levels of spooking you may find they're better out hacking. Mine is, but I couldn't have done it safely before sorting out diet. They're also probably bored stiff of the arena!

I'd have a good chat with the owner and ask her for advice on how to get the best from them. If she can watch you ride then this will really help. I'm sure she'd like to help and its in her interest as "schooling" is meant to improve their way of going not risk teaching them bad habits which is extremely easy to do!

 

[iberianfr]

My PRE is very sensitive to sugar and was actually much quieter / less spooky when in 24/7 (due to mud fever, not my choice) so this isn't necessarily the issue. He is extremely sensitive to grass though. Lots are stabled 24/7 in Spain too...

Are they explosive or is it normal spooking? If explosive / reactive rather than responsive then its probably a diet (sugar/minerals) issue, so if you can't do anything about it I'd stay safe and walk away.

If its normal levels of spooking you may find they're better out hacking. Mine is, but I couldn't have done it safely before sorting out diet. They're also probably bored stiff of the arena!

I'd have a good chat with the owner and ask her for advice on how to get the best from them. If she can watch you ride then this will really help. I'm sure she'd like to help and its in her interest as "schooling" is meant to improve their way of going not risk teaching them bad habits which is extremely easy to do!

Not quite sure what the difference is between reactive and responsive? It's a big big spook, not shying, basically tanking off. And it can happen over little things like noise from a rat running by or a dog taking a poo in the bushes outside of the arena. I was quite scared of hacking cause if they do it in the arena they would have lots of other things to spook at outside of it

 

[shortstuff99]

Not quite sure what the difference is between reactive and responsive? It's a big big spook, not shying, basically tanking off. And it can happen over little things like noise from a rat running by or a dog taking a poo in the bushes outside of the arena. I was quite scared of hacking cause if they do it in the arena they would have lots of other things to spook at outside of it

Are you enjoying riding these horses or is it now a chore?

 

[HeyMich]

I was then just trying to improve as much as I can as I think I will only be riding them during the owner's pregnancy and perhaps a little after she gives birth so I wanted to make the most out of my time with them and the trainer.

I've said it before and I'll say it again... Not your monkey, not your circus.

I'd politely suggest to the owner that they are turned out in a herd somewhere for the rest of her pregnancy. It will do them the world of good, and when they are brought back into work, they'll be a bit older and hopefully more level headed.

 

[doodle]

Another here who would be saying thanks for the offer but no thanks. Robin would be just the same if he was in 24/7

 

[Flamenco]

Not quite sure what the difference is between reactive and responsive? It's a big big spook, not shying, basically tanking ofAnd it can happen over little things like noise from a rat running by or a dog taking a poo in the bushes outside of the arena. I was quite scared of hacking cause if they do it in the arena they would have lots of other things to spook at outside of it

This sounds like a management issue which is out of your control.

For diet info have a look at Calm Healthy Horses (particularly the when not to ride bit) and also signs of magnesium deficiency. Now I've sorted the diet he hardly spooks or if he does its a normal side step before it was a 180 spin, 12ft leap sideways or shoot off at normal things like you mention. However its not your horse, so this isn't your problem to solve. Please don't get hurt by ignoring the warning signs.

Responsive to your aids (listening to you) is lots of fun. Riding movements you've never ridden with the horse waiting for the next instruction. Over reacting to everything around you without thinking isn't!

Riding is meant to be fun. If its not then walk away.

 

[ycbm]

I feed mine hay and fibre nuts...nothing else but basically just grass. No sugars, no Alfalfa, no grains etc etc. He's got loads of energy, and doesn't really need any more. I've heard that in Spain they're used to sparse diet, and do well on it. I don't mean to sound pompous about your riding ability..I'm certainly no expert.. but perhaps you're trying too hard to achieve the perfect outline? Ive found with mine, to settle his busy little brain, that I do a lot of lateral work to keep him thinking. Shoulder-in, leg yields, half passes etc and then he settles, and actually can become a bit lazy but willing (?) I know this sounds contradictory , but they're funny little horses aren't they...but I do love them!

This is mine! The hottest lazy horse I've ever ridden. Or should I say the laziest hot one? ?

 

[iberianfr]

Are you enjoying riding these horses or is it now a chore?

I think atm I enjoy having the opportunity to ride as it's hard to find another share especially on such nice breed and I can't live and be mentally healthy without horse riding. But these spooks do make me feel stressed and like a shit rider

 

[HeyMich]

I think atm I enjoy having the opportunity to ride as it's hard to find another share especially on such nice breed and I can't live and be mentally healthy without horse riding. But these spooks do make me feel stressed and like a shit rider

Yeah, if it's knocking your confidence (making you feel like a shit rider, when you probably are no such thing!) then it's not a good match. That will do your mental health no end of damage.

Perhaps it's time to look for another share/loan that's better suited? Or explain all of this to the owner (show them the thread) and ask them how they plan to remedy the situation, as it clearly isn't working well at the moment. If they can't see the problem, then they are deluded/negligent, not you.

 

[littleshetland]

I think atm I enjoy having the opportunity to ride as it's hard to find another share especially on such nice breed and I can't live and be mentally healthy without horse riding. But these spooks do make me feel stressed and like a shit rider

I sure your a good rider, you're just having your confidence knocked at the moment. Every time we sit on a horse we learn something.

 

[MagicMelon]

They are sensitive, Ive only ever had 2 horses actually bolt with me. One is still with me now (now retired) and he's a lusitano x TB and is very sensitive. When I bought him as a green 5yo, early on he bolted once on a hack, a cow moved and he spooked and bolted - he truly bolted as he took me straight through a barbed wire fence, he only slowed as the field he'd launched into was extremely boggy. This began an issue with cows so soon after he did it again, except I felt him about to go so I jumped off, tried to hold onto him but he was off - he bolted full pelt down the road about 1.5 miles home. Terrifying. For everyones safety I stopped hacking him from then on. He turned into my once in a liftetime competition horse but we still never hacked again! Id suggest not hacking the horses, do they do the same in the school?

Mine is only a part bred but I always needed the quietest aids, I didnt even carry a whip on him (even eventing to a decent level etc.) and only had to think to change gear and he did it - literally he read my mind.

 

[Shysmum]

If I were you, I'd find other horses to ride, it sounds dangerous. You only have one body !

 

[mariew]

It's not fair on them or you. Youngsters need to be able to move and throw some shapes. Poor horses

 

[PinkvSantaboots]

It's no wonder they are spooking and running off they are cooped up in a stable with hardly any exercise and no turnout, most horses would not be easy to ride with this management and they are so young, it's really not fair on them or you I would speak to the owners about how they are kept, and if they are not willing to change how they are managed I am afraid I wouldn't ride them.

I have Arabs and they can be spooky idiots at times and they are 16 and 17 years old, I know if I stabled them 24-7 and didn't ride them hard everyday they would not be pleasant to ride when I did actually get round to it, mine live out most of the time and they can still be hot to ride in the winter.

 

[Pippity]

I have Arabs and they can be spooky idiots at times and they are 16 and 17 years old, I know if I stabled them 24-7 and didn't ride them hard everyday they would not be pleasant to ride when I did actually get round to it, mine live out most of the time and they can still be hot to ride in the winter.

I have an extremely sensible cob, and she'd be jumping out of her skin and tanking off with me if kept in 24/7.

OP, I know it's not what you want to hear, but this situation is just setting you up to fail.

 

[PinkvSantaboots]

As an example one of mine had a bad reaction to his jabs last week and he couldn't walk, so both were in for 24 hours while he was on Bute and the following morning he was absolutely desperate to get out he literally ran out of the stable and that was being in because he couldn't walk but he wasn't happy.

 

[sunnyone]

I'd be inclined to say it's likely to be the winter feed. Spanish horses get a less sugary mix than ours and even the hay resembles straw rather than lush grass. It could particularly be the answer to the second horse's behaviour. Has the owner recently changed brands, for example?

 

[Palindrome]

I don't think you are causing the behaviour, but possibly with more experience you will be able to manage the behaviour.
Is there any way they could be turned out together in the arena for say 20-30 minutes before you ride? This way they would be able to let of some steam and play before you get on and then be able to concentrate on their work.

Then, for the managing part, are you able to walk them in the arena on a long rein? If not, I would start with that, adding circles, shoulder in, etc... until the horse is able to go everywhere you want in the arena with very little rein aids. You can also do transitions (stop, walk and back up) and add ground pole to make it more varied. You will then be able to start controlling the shoulders and the hind end with your seat and legs and be able to control the spooks. The way to control the spook is by putting the horse in shoulder in (away from the scary thing) so he has to lower his head and engage his hind end. This will be much more comfortable for you and easier to seat to. Even if the horse starts trotting a bit, keep your position and balance and they will eventually calm down (adjust the bend of the shoulder in as needed, more bend if the horse gets faster, less bend if the horse gets calmer). When then calm down, carry on walking calmly (no stopping after the spook) and reward by giving long reins and a pat/good boy. Repeat as needed, you can do this in trot once the walk is mastered.

In the shoulder in, don't forget to use your seat and legs to bend the horse's whole body, don't just pull the head around.

 

[iberianfr]

I don't think you are causing the behaviour, but possibly with more experience you will be able to manage the behaviour.
Is there any way they could be turned out together in the arena for say 20-30 minutes before you ride? This way they would be able to let of some steam and play before you get on and then be able to concentrate on their work.

Then, for the managing part, are you able to walk them in the arena on a long rein? If not, I would start with that, adding circles, shoulder in, etc... until the horse is able to go everywhere you want in the arena with very little rein aids. You can also do transitions (stop, walk and back up) and add ground pole to make it more varied. You will then be able to start controlling the shoulders and the hind end with your seat and legs and be able to control the spooks. The way to control the spook is by putting the horse in shoulder in (away from the scary thing) so he has to lower his head and engage his hind end. This will be much more comfortable for you and easier to seat to. Even if the horse starts trotting a bit, keep your position and balance and they will eventually calm down (adjust the bend of the shoulder in as needed, more bend if the horse gets faster, less bend if the horse gets calmer). When then calm down, carry on walking calmly (no stopping after the spook) and reward by giving long reins and a pat/good boy. Repeat as needed, you can do this in trot once the walk is mastered.

In the shoulder in, don't forget to use your seat and legs to bend the horse's whole body, don't just pull the head around.

I'm afraid I can't do much of long rein at all otherwise he will try to trot up to other horses or just spook immediately. But yes re: shoulder in that is exactly what I'm trying to do

 

[Flamenco]

When my PRE is buzzy, he's worse at walk as he looks around for something to spook at. So I do the equivalent of two laps in walk on each rein, then on into trot/canter with constant changes of direction so he doesn't know where he's going next (e.g squares, diamonds, zig zags, demi volte, 3/4 lines), then move onto your lateral work etc. Do something as you pass at least every other marker. Then he relaxes and listens to you.

Mine also needs you to have the contact correct before he will settle, walking on a long rein or dropping the contact winds him up. I thought I understood contact / outline but didn't! I needed a different instructor.

Riding with 'too much' inside bend helps to stop them spooking as 99% time they spook at something outside.

BUT none of this helped and we made no progress until I realised he couldn't handle any sugar, needed a complete diet overhaul and soaked hay. Then he stopped spooking/over reacting and was a different horse.

I doubt the best rider in the world could get much from the equine equivalent of a sugar crazed, hyperactive child with ADHD, mainly fed sweets. Plus who has been locked in a cupboard for weeks / months only let out for an occasional hour and expected to behave.

This is why people are suggesting you walk away. Its no reflection on you or your riding abiity, this situation sets anyone up to fail, plus a real risk of getting hurt in the process!

 

[Sossigpoker]

When my sensitive cob has a fright he runs. I then panic and grip with my legs and pull on the reins which ends up in him bombing off. If I could react by remaining soft and calm it wouldn't be a problem. The problem is definitely me and it's so frustrating.