Bone spurs on hocks

[ycbm]

I've just had some x rays and scans taken of Ludo's hind legs because I had a niggling doubt there was an issue, in spite of him being as sound as a pound (maybe not such a good meme these days ?).

He has clean stifles and no sign of PSD but there is a small bone spur on each hock that the vet thinks he was probably born with. The right one catches occasionally causing a misstep.

The vet says it is possible they will become arthritic as he ages and there are good treatment options if/when he goes lame. I asked if we could do anything preventative to head this off and was told no, quite definitively.

On the basis only that 500 heads are better than one, and I desperately want to keep him going 20 years until I'm done riding, I'd be very interested if anyone has a different view of this. If you're a vet and need anonymity, PM me and no-one will ever know.

Thanks in advance.

 

[AmyMay]

Not a vet clearly. But the first thing I’d do is get him on a good joint supplement.

 

[ycbm]

Not a vet clearly. But the first thing I’d do is get him on a good joint supplement.

What would you use AM? There are so many!
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[Birker2020]

I've just had some x rays and scans taken of Ludo's hind legs because I had a niggling doubt there was an issue, in spite of him being as sound as a pound (maybe not such a good meme these days ?).

He has clean stifles and no sign of PSD but there is a small bone spur on each hock that the vet thinks he was probably born with. The right one catches occasionally causing a misstep.

The vet says it is possible they will become arthritic as he ages and there are good treatment options if/when he goes lame. I asked if we could do anything preventative to head this off and was told no, quite definitively.

On the basis only that 500 heads are better than one, and I desperately want to keep him going 20 years until I'm done riding, I'd be very interested if anyone has a different view of this. If you're a vet and need anonymity, PM me and no-one will ever know.

Thanks in advance.

Uneven loading

Uneven loading causes excessive compression of the cartilage and bone on one side, and strain in the joint capsule and supporting ligaments on the other side. When the joint is repeatedly overloaded, exostoses, or ‘bone spurs’, occur. Strain of the supporting ligaments can cause exostosis around the joint as well.
https://www.ed.ac.uk/sites/default/files/atoms/files/bone_spavin.pdf

So I'd be asking how you prevent excessive uneven loading? Lateral/medial foot balance possibly? I'm not sure. Maybe xrays of foot balance might be a starting point.

Like AM says a good joint supplement although these are very subjective.
Riding on decent surfaces. No excessive trotting on roads (not suggesting you do).
Regular shoeing or trimming.
Lots of turnout.
Keeping weight off.

The usual culprits.

Edited to say don't panic. Just because it shows on xray doesn't necessarily mean the horse is suffering from it.
What exactly is the bone spur catching on that causes him to have a misstep?

 

[AmyMay]

What would you use AM? There are so many!
.

That I’m not sure off as I’m long out of horses. And I’m sure others will have a range of suggestions for you.

 

[ycbm]

Uneven loading

Uneven loading causes excessive compression of the cartilage and bone on one side, and strain in the joint capsule and supporting ligaments on the other side. When the joint is repeatedly overloaded, exostoses, or ‘bone spurs’, occur. Strain of the supporting ligaments can cause exostosis around the joint as well.
https://www.ed.ac.uk/sites/default/files/atoms/files/bone_spavin.pdf

So I'd be asking how you prevent excessive uneven loading? Lateral/medial foot balance possibly? I'm not sure. Maybe xrays of foot balance might be a starting point.

Like AM says a good joint supplement although these are very subjective.
Riding on decent surfaces. No excessive trotting on roads (not suggesting you do).
Regular shoeing or trimming.
Lots of turnout.
Keeping weight off.

The usual culprits.

It wasn't caused by unlevel loading, B, the x rays are balanced and the vet thinks he was born with them because of the density of them being the same as all the bone it's attached to.
.

 

[Birker2020]

It wasn't caused by unlevel loading, B, the x rays are balanced and the vet thinks he was born with them because of the density of them being the same as all the bone it's attached to.
.

That's fair enough then. Good news.

So why did he have them xrayed? You said there was a niggling doubt there was an issue, was it just the leg that gets left behind? What is the spur catching on?

 

[Equi]

What would you use AM? There are so many!
.

I saw massive improvement with science supplements flexibility pro, only issue is it’s pricey.

 

[ycbm]

That's fair enough then. Good news.

So why did he have them xrayed? You said there was a niggling doubt there was an issue, was it just the leg that gets left behind? What is the spur catching on?

See my other thread, B.

 

[SEL]

I had the late Ardennes on Equine Answers joint supplement and I've just bought their one without devil's claw to see if it helps the microcob. Was impressed with it for the big boy but I know that what works for one doesn't for another.

Is he reacting to flexion tests with those hocks? If not I'd keep up with regular bodywork asking your physio to shout if there's anything that starts to show up which could imply he's not using them properly. Also watch him walk, trot from behind sometimes - they get a bit of a characteristic "wobble" when they stop using the joint properly. That's when I'd go straight for arthramid.

The other thing to potentially consider is cartrophen if you get any vibes that he's not quite right.

One of my biggest regrets with the Appy is not insisting on more active intervention with her hocks earlier - she has a hook on her left and not using the leg properly buggered that suspensory. I'm a bit more assertive with vets these days.

Relieved it was nothing major for you both ?

 

[ycbm]

The flexions were spectacularly good! I shall watch for the wobble. If I have the slightest excuse, and willingness of a vet, to go for cartrophen and/or arthramid, I will.
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[NinjaPony]

I’d put him on a decent joint supplement now, and consider regular cartrophen injections (every 4 months or so). It’s quite a cost effective option if your horse is happy with needles. I used to do mine myself as my boy was very chilled about injections, so I was only paying for the drug not the vet call out.

 

[Goldenstar]

I think you are best xraying every year and as soon as they see a change put in arthimid or a similar product .
A joint supplement may or may not help but all you have to waste is money , however you might be better putting the money towards cartrophen

 

[ycbm]

I think you are best xraying every year and as soon as they see a change put in arthimid or a similar product .
A joint supplement may or may not help but all you have to waste is money , however you might be better putting the money towards cartrophen

Good call GS, I hadn't thought of repeating them.
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[Rowreach]

I think you are best xraying every year and as soon as they see a change put in arthimid or a similar product .
A joint supplement may or may not help but all you have to waste is money , however you might be better putting the money towards cartrophen

This.

 

[AandK]

Out of interest, those who use cartrophen, how often do you use it and roughly how much is it please?

 

[Regandal]

I’d go for good quality boswellia. Anti inflammatory, kind on the stomach and may slow the progression of arthritis.

 

[Bernster]

For joint supp i use Naf superflex. I know not everyone rates him but David Marlin has this graph which looks useful. And makes me think the feedmark one with boswellia might actually be a better one. For a better pic, it’s on Facebook under his name and joint supplements.

 

[ycbm]

I have been thinking about why he has these spurs. It's obvious from their density that they have been there a very long time. But I do wonder if it was serving 7 free range mares bigger than himself at 2 years old that did it. It seems quite likely to me?
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[SEL]

Out of interest, those who use cartrophen, how often do you use it and roughly how much is it please?

You start at 1 X week then move to 1 X month. It's intra muscular so you can do it yourself with a bit of instruction

Not sure on cost. The Appy didn't respond and the Ardennes lost the plot with weekly injections (although it really helped him) so I gave up.

 

[Hormonal Filly]

Just came across this post @ycbm

My Welsh had his hocks CT scanned for free by the vets when he had his PSD surgery back in 2019. They had only just started using CT scans to look at hocks apparently, so it was to help their knowledge. It showed bone spurs on both his hocks, yet hocks were clean from arthritis/anything else. He was 8.

Vets weren’t able to tell me if it meant anything, the report said probably of no significance. One vet said a lot of the horses they had CTed hocks on, had bone spurs. Interestingly.

Probably no help, but thought worth posting.

 

[scats]

I’ve tried so many joint supplements, but have found the most success recently with Equimins flexijoint.

 

[ycbm]

Very helpful thanks, give me hope they will never develop into anything worse.
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[scats]

Sorry, got the name wrong, its flexijoint. Just edited.

 

[ycbm]

Sorry, got the name wrong, its flexijoint. Just edited.

Already realised when I went looking for it.
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[ycbm]

Update.
Sadly I know he's not sound, and for the meanwhile he will only be hacking on straight lines. I can feel it on circles even in a 40m arena, and he has started to buck in canter on both reins, which he never even did as a newly backed horse. I could swear he was saying sorry when I led him back to the stables to turn him out, and I told him it's OK, I know he's got problems and I'm listening.

I still don't think he's going to show up lame for a vet, and the bucking will be labelled "behavioural", but I'm not taking no for an answer and I will search until I find a vet who will treat his hocks.

I'm starting with a call to the senior orthopedic vet at the hospital which took the x rays. I'll update when I've had that conversation.
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[ycbm]

ETA he has recently developed a shiver when trying to pick out the left hind. While I'm aware of a possible greater risk of PSSM2 due to his breeding, this is on one side only and the right hock (taking all the weight when picking out the left foot) is the one he "falls off" more often, though he hardly ever does that unless he's working on wax.
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[Hormonal Filly]

Sadly I know he's not sound, and for the meanwhile he will only be hacking on straight lines. I can feel it on circles even in a 40m arena, and he has started to buck in canter on both reins, which he never even did as a newly backed horse. I could swear he was saying sorry when I led him back to the stables to turn him out, and I told him it's OK, I know he's got problems and I'm listening.

I still don't think he's going to show up lame for a vet, and the bucking will be labelled "behavioural", but I'm not taking no for an answer and I will search until I find a vet who will treat his hocks.

I'm starting with a call to the senior orthopedic vet at the hospital which took the x rays. I'll update when I've had that conversation.
.

Sorry to hear this ycbm. We know our horses. Try and find a good (ideally independent) vet that will listen - they shouldn't say behavioural if you're saying its unusual for him. My current vet really listens and takes on board what I say, he was a good find. If you feel he isn't right on a circle, a good vet should be able to see that on a ridden assessment?

 

[ycbm]

Sorry to hear this ycbm. We know our horses. Try and find a good (ideally independent) vet that will listen - they shouldn't say behavioural if you're saying its unusual for him. My current vet really listens and takes on board what I say, he was a good find. If you feel he isn't right on a circle, a good vet should be able to see that on a ridden assessment?

I can't see it in the mirrors. He's still stepping well under himself in the canter with a big hind leg separation. Then suddenly he'll throw a buck, and in the last week those bucks are increasing in frequency In trot, there is just a reluctance to change bend without bobbing his head up. I know my horse though, I backed him nearly 5 years ago. He isn't right.
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[Hormonal Filly]

I can't see it in the mirrors. He's still stepping well under himself in the canter with a big hind leg separation. Then suddenly he'll throw a buck, and in the last week those bucks are increasing in frequency In trot, there is just a reluctance to change bend without bobbing his head up. I know my horse though, I backed him nearly 5 years ago. He isn't right.
.

If only they could talk and tell us.. Hope you get some answers, everything crossed the orthopaedic vet will be able to help. Would be interesting to block his hock/s and see if you feel any difference.