Borrowing or Stealing?

definition of borrowing is using something with the persons permission and intending to return it hence you cannot borrow a toilet
Stealing definition is to permanently deprive someone of their possession with no intention of returning it
There is a grey area where people borrow without permission but intend to return the item
Or ppeople borrow with permission but no intention of returning the item
 
Does it count if you're left out of a ride by a bunch of sexist blokes who tell you to stay and make them lunch, so you take a couple of ponies, ride bareback into the outback and go skinny-dipping?

Ponies were back, and pancakes on the fire when they got home, so i don't think this counts. My conscience is clear :P
 
I have decided to move my horse to a field if I can find one to share because I am sick of another livery taking my hay and feed and not returning it over the last 3 months. When I complained to the culprit she went and told her best friend who came up to me and stated that she had only been borrowing it and I am a troublemaker. I have found out that the YO knows all about it but because she will lose 3 horses if this woman leaves won't say anything. Most of the other liveries have lost the same which I didn't know before so they are backing me up but I go the yard to enjoy my horse not to be called a troublemaker. The YO and her OH are now avoiding me. It has really upset me as I have loved my time there and there is great hacking and facilities but I cannot afford to keep replacing things that aren't returned. I posted a message previously about grazing fields so I will be moving as soon as I can find one.
 
I'm guessing the OP posted about a situation that has happened to them, realised that they had said too much and edited the post!

Ah yes seen new post that makes more sense!
 
Well i guess you can put a padlock on your feed bins, but hay is a little more difficult.

What a spineless and cowardly way to act if indeed the YO is not acting on this. What a shame for you.

Money talks it seems...sadly, and from what you've posted, she's happier to keep 3 paying liveries on and lose 1.

I feel for you and hope you find somewhere OP. What a tragic World we live in sometimes...
 
Thanks Guys! I'm devastated because the yard has everything I need and the owners are lovely people. They just want a yard that is happy but I cannot afford to provide hay and food for another horse. So if anyone knows of a decent field between South Newbury, Kingsclere and Whitchurch please pm me.
 
I have 'stolen' a bag of food before now - and bought a replacement a few days later ... not sure if that is technically stealing as I did intend to 'permanently deprive' of that specific sack but did replace with an identical sack...
 
Why not install a cheap little CCTV camera over your area it might just do the trick and you can continue enjoying the yard if everything else is ok.
 
And when does this person plan on replacing he stuff she has 'borrowed' ?!

In my books if something's borrowed, it's on amicable terms with both party's and returned or replaced with the same thing in the same condition! If someone borrowed hay from me I'd expect it to be a few bales at most , any more(3months worth for example) is taking the p***!

Good luck with your move OP.
 
Do you have a trailer or box at the yard you could lock your stuff in? Bit of a faff I know and a pain when you want to go out but it would make your point loud and clear.
 
No I don't have a trailer or lorry and I doubt if the YO would let me put a camera up but also I'm not sure that the other owners would feel comfortable with a camera there all the time.

It really has caused a lot of trouble as most of the other owners want the culprit and her friend to leave and have spoken to the YO about it but she has just said that she doesn't want to hear another word about it. Two other owners have told me that they are leaving as well because they have lost too many things as well. So in fact the YO is going to lose 3 liveries anyway.
 
Why do people think it is acceptable and just 'borrowing'? It's theft pure and simple...

There was a girl at a yard I used to be on who would take a whole bag out of someone's feed bin (who used an expensive feed) and then would replace it with a cheap no-mark brand and stir it up so noone would notice. Until she got caught in the act...
 
I don't understand; if the yard is as good as you say then she should not have any trouble filling boxes? She is going to have 3 to fill anyway now and many more as this kind if thing gives yards a bad reputation. Really if anything the YO needs to man up. Can you call a yard meeting/approach YO in a group/have leaving livery explain why she is leaving.
 
Urgh this other livery sounds awful! If she hasn't paid you for it or replaced it then it is stealing pure and simple.

Next time she steals food, tell her you will be getting the police involved for theft and that you are keeping a note of every time food and hay has been taken or moved. They may not actually do ****** all about it, especially eithoit proof, but a threat to this stupid person may get them to stop.

Failing that, get a nice big feed bin for you feed, padlock it. Harder with the hay, but perhaps you can conveniently 'borrow' her stuff?!

As for the YO what a gutless person!!! She should be stepping in especially if others have also had same issues. Maybe you can all sit down with her and tell her that she will lose more than three liveries if it continues? If she still does nothing... Find another YO who has control over her facilities!
 
I would just leave the yard, if the YO doesn't thinking stealing between her clients is bad and doesn't think she should deal with it properly then she is just as bad as them!! I would put it down as a learning curve and invest in a box or something that you can lock shut.

Go an find somewhere else and maybe she will realise that loosing 4 horses is worse then loosing 3 and it sounds like not many people are happy there.
 
How awful OP :( Similar happened to me at my old yard. It was small yard and the YO used to hay and feed all the horses in the morning over winter. My pony was in his own field and I asked that he got half a small bale of hay in the morning and I gave him the other half in the afternoon. He really started to lose weight and seemed ravenous by the evening. I upped his hay intake to 3/4 in the morning and 3/4 in the evening but he was still thin. I called the vet to discuss and she was in the area so popped up to check him over and run some bloods. When I got there to meet her about 10am, my pony was stood with no food while the others were happily eating hay. I had a suspicion that my hay was being used to feed other horses as he doesn't eat that fast, but I didnt have proof and the YO came across as so nice. So I started doing him myself each morning, and after a couple of weeks he was back to a good weight and still had a little hay left each evening/morning. I moved him shortly after this as all trust had gone :(

So I know how it feels to be stolen off, it is really awful. If people cannot afford to feed their animasl, DON'T HAVE THEM!
 
Could you, and the other liveries that are thinking of moving, all go to the YO together and explain why you are looking elsewhere? It would let her know that she is at risk of losing more people if she just allows a thief to operate without any consequence.

How do you buy your hay? If you buy a bale at a time from the YO you could lock it in one of those cheap plastic trunks you can get from B&Q. If you have a few bales, you could wrap it in tarp and use the corner holes in the tarp to tie it together / padlock it, just to make it really difficult for someone else to get it out. It would be a faff, but would at least help prevent your stuff going missing.
 
HaffiesRock said:
How awful OP :( Similar happened to me at my old yard. It was small yard and the YO used to hay and feed all the horses in the morning over winter. My pony was in his own field and I asked that he got half a small bale of hay in the morning and I gave him the other half in the afternoon. He really started to lose weight and seemed ravenous by the evening. I upped his hay intake to 3/4 in the morning and 3/4 in the evening but he was still thin. I called the vet to discuss and she was in the area so popped up to check him over and run some bloods. When I got there to meet her about 10am, my pony was stood with no food while the others were happily eating hay. I had a suspicion that my hay was being used to feed other horses as he doesn't eat that fast, but I didnt have proof and the YO came across as so nice. So I started doing him myself each morning, and after a couple of weeks he was back to a good weight and still had a little hay left each evening/morning. I moved him shortly after this as all trust had gone :(

So I know how it feels to be stolen off, it is really awful. If people cannot afford to feed their animasl, DON'T HAVE THEM!
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I had this but from a friend, couldnt understand why both my 2 were losing weight, but they were not being fed or not getting all their food, as soon as I moved they put their weight back on.

Awful situation, but the YO reaction would make me want to move asap, regardless of borrowing with the intention to replace, ask the owner, most will oblige!!
 
Fjord said:
Could you, and the other liveries that are thinking of moving, all go to the YO together and explain why you are looking elsewhere? It would let her know that she is at risk of losing more people if she just allows a thief to operate without any consequence.

How do you buy your hay? If you buy a bale at a time from the YO you could lock it in one of those cheap plastic trunks you can get from B&Q. If you have a few bales, you could wrap it in tarp and use the corner holes in the tarp to tie it together / padlock it, just to make it really difficult for someone else to get it out. It would be a faff, but would at least help prevent your stuff going missing.
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The B&Q trunks are no good really, as the plastic bit pops out and can be popped back in with no sign of tampering (I used to have one and used to do this when I forgot my keys) Unless the design has changed on them,
 
Myhorseeatsmoney said:
Thanks Guys! I'm devastated because the yard has everything I need and the owners are lovely people. They just want a yard that is happy but I cannot afford to provide hay and food for another horse. So if anyone knows of a decent field between South Newbury, Kingsclere and Whitchurch please pm me.
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Have you seen the large bags that hold a bale of hay? They have a zip that you can padlock.

Another thing I saw recently was that the large wheely bins hold a bale of hay and they are easy to fit a lock to. What I saw had a hole cut in the base for the horse to get at the hay, great for the paddock, secure to the fence and hay stays clean and dry, and you don't have to carry it
 
If enough of you are discontent and want to leave the YO will lose more money than if they'd just dealt with the thief and then they might deal with it and you won't have to leave. If it otherwise suits you to be at the yard why should this person drive you out? I know I've had times when I have felt like leaving my yard, though never about stealing, and I am usually glad in the end that I stayed.

From the perspective of the YO's business, if enough people walk word will soon be round that thieving goes unchecked at their yard, they won't get anyone decent in the end. It won't be any good for them
 
At my last yard the yard owner took my best fleece rug off my shelves to use on one of her competition horses and stored it in her trunk. A lovely new lightweight turnout also vanished. Another owner at the yard discovered all her best rugs in the YO's trailer and someone else had their gymkhana games equipment "borrowed" and stored in her trailer. The other items that vanished were schooling whips (the nice new ones)!
 
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