Bought a lame pony - what would you do?

[bonny]

The pony was vetted.

I was thinking insured, oops

 

[SilverLinings]

Unfortunately even if the pony's issue could be proved to have existed prior to sale, that doesn't mean that the previous owner knew about it, or that the vetting vet could detect it. Either lameness couldn't be detected, or the owner wasn't knowledgeable to detect it, or they knew about it and lied, but I don't know how you could prove the third option unless the previous owner put it in writing somewhere (e.g. a SM post).

Even a video of the horse looking lame prior to the sale doesn't prove that the seller knew/could see the lameness, or that it was lame when vetted. If you have a good quality video of the actual vetting and it shows obvious lameness then you might have a chance to pursue the vetting vet.

Buying horses is a gamble, and as others have already said I think it is unlikely you will be able to prove guilt/mal-practice/deception by the vet or seller.

 

[HorsesRule2009]

I don't think you'd have much success going after the vetting vetting or previous owner, you have owned tge pony several months.
Perhaps if you'd gone back to them when pony was first lame may have had a better chance.
Just because the issue(s) found are long standing doesn't mean the previous owner new about them, some horses/ponies are very stoic so don't show anything for a long time, but also like people horses have different pain tolerances so may not have been lame previously.
Did you ever run the vetting bloods?

Also unfortunately a vetting is only valid for that day, dependant on price possibly consider vetting x-rays along with vetting

 

[Glitter's fun]

11th November
"Haven’t had blood results back yet maybe that will give a clue."

What did the bloods show?

 

[paddy555]

Would you just leave it and deal with the broken ‘goods’ you’ve bought which might mean not being able to do the things your child wanted to do with it.

it's a pony for heavens sake, an animal. With an animal you are not buying a piece of machinery. It can "break" sometimes irretrievably at any moment in time. Not all animals can do what kids want to do. Sometimes the child has to learn that hard lesson. Very very many people on here have learnt that.

As you haven't commented about the blood then I think we can presume it tested negative.

I'm not sure how you will get vet support to sue. To me you are throwing away money that could be used to treat the pony.

I think it would be better if you detailed the problem ie exactly what the current vet has found and why he thinks it is the cause of the lameness, what tests he has carried out to establish that, what he thinks you should do about the problem. Some people here will have considerable experience of the problem (there are a wide variety on here with experiences of most conditions) they will then be able to make suggestions as to what they have found to be most successful or alternatively if you are on a hiding to nothing even trying to treat. .

Does the vet think the pony can work and if so what level of work and it's age.

 

[ILuvCowparsely]

If they are refusing access to records, there is something being hidden

So true.
My livery bought a lovely grey cob - really sweet, but the girl had not ridden for 30 years or had a horse during that time. We all offered to do with her or to take someone with her when she viewed, she didn't and bout the cob for £ 5000+. Got it back here and 3 days later it bronked her off. Badly - she got the saddler out to checked the fit, and she got on and it bronked her off again.

She did history checked on passport and contacted a person on it and they said. " Oh that mare she was sold as companion only due to sacral issues" She is now stuck with a sweet mare which she is keeping but worth £ 1000 if your lucky as she is not old.

I told her get bloods checked for bute and calmer before you buy but no she didn't. Same with another person I know who bought a 12.2hh driving pony who someone on here found, he was great on trial and they had competed him., but when home he ran in the carriage and petrified of it.

I always now when vet say we keep blood for insurance I say I want it checked.

OP try get your money back.



I was told by my seller mare does not spook yet she did a huge one on trial, but doesn't bother me as old mare did.

Is the pony barefoot??

I asked this as I lost all my sharer's because my pony bronked the kids off, (recent post on here) out of character for her, saddle and back checked, girl coming to ride her again today if rain holds off. Turned out to be her feet, put her scoot boots on and she is a different pony.

 

[Ample Prosecco]

This thread is going round in circles.

Many posters have said they would not release vet records, months after sale, for a buyer on a fishing trip. That - alone - is not suspect. Genuinely dodgy vets are rare, particularly ones connected to private sellers. Proving a vet made a mistake amounting to negligence is also very hard.

To claim miss-selling for a private sale OP would have to prove owners knew. As pony passed a vetting I have no idea how you can prove pony was lame on the day to an obvious enough degree that owner could not have missed it. Historical lameness is irrelevant unless sale contract specifically stated no history of lameness.

Most posters don’t believe OP has a leg to stand on but a conversation with an equine solicitor would strike me as the obvious next move. None of us actually know!

 

[Glitter's fun]

Not bought unseen - op tried and assessed him herself.
Passed a vetting with clear bloods (presumably). Vetting done by well-recommended vet of buyer's choice.
I'd say the chances of making a claim five months later = zero.
All this circling around is just costing more money & causing more upset.

Telling the child he's staying no matter what will go a long way towards making her less upset. Tell her bad things happen; sometimes even because bad people do things to us, however we can still take control & make the world a better place, in this case we can do the right thing by our pony & make sure he is comfortable .

 

[MagicMelon]

I think technically this is a private sale, as paid directly. So have less right then if buying through a dealer. And July was 3.5 months ago. Did you contact the seller with concerns 9 days into purchase when your daughter was bucked off. I am not sure you have good grounds for legal action in this case.

This. Its a private sale as you paid direct to seller, also the fact the dealer signed the pony off as not a bucker etc. means nothing since she isnt the seller you paid. Id personally send a solicitor letter to the dealer now (by email also) stating you want a full refund as pony is not as described. Did you have the pony vetted? If not, itll be harder to get your money back... you'll just have to hope the seller gets worried by the threat and refunds you. I would personally have asked to have seen the vet records prior to purchase. They dont really need to disclose anything after you've paid.

 

[Birker2020]

This thread is going round in circles.

Many posters have said they would not release vet records, months after sale, for a buyer on a fishing trip. That - alone - is not suspect. Genuinely dodgy vets are rare, particularly ones connected to private sellers. Proving a vet made a mistake amounting to negligence is also very hard.

To claim miss-selling for a private sale OP would have to prove owners knew. As pony passed a vetting I have no idea how you can prove pony was lame on the day to an obvious enough degree that owner could not have missed it. Historical lameness is irrelevant unless sale contract specifically stated no history of lameness.

Most posters don’t believe OP has a leg to stand on but a conversation with an equine solicitor would strike me as the obvious next move. None of us actually know!

I wouldn't be impressed if the seller did release her vet records, it only proves that nothing significant has been done to the pony by THAT vet. The seller could have got another vet involved in xrays, scans, injections, investigations, but they obviously wouldn't supply full clinical history of THAT vet. So really asking for vet records is pretty pointless, I soon came to that conclusion when I found out you could use more than one vet for your horse at the same time.

I didn't pursue Lari being missold as much as I could have because by the time I realised there was a problem of the magnitude that there was there is no way I could have surrendered him back to the seller in return for my money as I'd developed strong feelings for him on account of all the rehab and groundwork I'd carried out.

 

[WelshD]

Would it make a difference if I have lots of video of the pony a few days before the vetting - showing the same lameness that it has now?

You asked this above - I think if anything that would go against you if you had seen these prior to buying.

If you have a video of your viewing and the pony looks fine and the videos you mention are between that and the vetting and previously unseen by you then you may have HAD reason to complain

But we are months down the line and I really think this needs to be filed under 's**t happens' unless you can be absolutely sure the previous owner knew about the lameness - you could have a look on the last owners social media though - its amazing how many times owners will mention that their horse is poorly, a friend of mine pulled out of a sale as she found a post on social media about the pony missing shows because it was footy - people can be very indiscrete and don't think ahead!

I am currently keep an eye out for a pony for my friend and have just put my own out on loan after considering (briefly) his value - I know that some of these kids ponies are going for monopoly money currently and so you may be facing a huge loss - that's incredibly frustrating and I think if this is the case definitely consult a specialist solicitor - if you bought at the low end of the market then I would turn the pony away and see if it comes good

 

[Kaylum]

They might not have had the vet to it in the past so records might not show anyway.

 

[Nasicus]

I wouldn't be impressed if the seller did release her vet records, it only proves that nothing significant has been done to the pony by THAT vet. The seller could have got another vet involved in xrays, scans, injections, investigations, but they obviously wouldn't supply full clinical history of THAT vet. So really asking for vet records is pretty pointless, I soon came to that conclusion when I found out you could use more than one vet for your horse at the same time.

I know a few people that do this for that exact reason, I think it's pretty crappy of them and really shows where their interests actually lie.

 

[Rowreach]

And then again there are some perfectly genuine sellers who don't know that a horse has anything wrong with it at the time of sale, allow a full five stage vetting with bloods, take the payment, assume everything is fine, and then months later the buyer wants to see vet records and is accusing them of selling a lame horse with videos "showing" the lameness prior to sale. As the seller I would be telling the buyer to jog on and hoping they did the right thing by the pony and treated whatever it is (we still don't know) that the vet has diagnosed it with.

 

[Birker2020]

I know a few people that do this for that exact reason, I think it's pretty crappy of them and really shows where their interests actually lie.

It's dreadful being ripped off, it's totally heartbreaking in fact. These people are s*um as far as I'm concerned.

 

[suebou]

I sold a 13.2 genuine child’s pony to what I thought was a competent mother and a boy rider who would have loads of fun jumping this pony. She’d done PC, xc, qualified for BS UK finals when it was very rare up here!
never sick sorry and we had no hesitation in saying she’s never bucked or reared. I knew her full history. About 20 days later, a phone call came, she’s reared several times!
no idea what went on but I was in a position to take her back so home she came. Sold her locally, no sign of a rear or any other issues. There are ALWAYS two sides to a story….

 

[Birker2020]

I sold a 13.2 genuine child’s pony to what I thought was a competent mother and a boy rider who would have loads of fun jumping this pony. She’d done PC, xc, qualified for BS UK finals when it was very rare up here!
never sick sorry and we had no hesitation in saying she’s never bucked or reared. I knew her full history. About 20 days later, a phone call came, she’s reared several times!
no idea what went on but I was in a position to take her back so home she came. Sold her locally, no sign of a rear or any other issues. There are ALWAYS two sides to a story….

Yes there are two sides to a story, I agree.

People can over horse themselves, or keep a new horse cosseted in a stable and feed it full of heating foods whilst they give it 'time to settle in' and then encounter problems.

 

[expanding_horizon]

Yes there are two sides to a story, I agree.

People can over horse themselves, or keep a new horse cosseted in a stable and feed it full of heating foods whilst they give it 'time to settle in' and then encounter problems.

I’m not sure it even has to be two sides. I bought an 11 year old horse that was never right, and after 3 year of trying to get him right (via various vet hospital work ups) he was PTS.

I think he was very finely balanced in old long term home and something in changing home /lifestyle / rider / farrier / bodyworker caused the stack of dominos to fall.

My vet thinks the seller knew. I don’t think so. But I’ll never know.

 

[Ample Prosecco]

There’s no evidence the OP has been ripped off. Dodgy sellers with lame ponies don’t generally offer 5 stage vettings. Whatever the problem is was subtle or ambiguous enough for a vet to miss.

I’ve bought 2 ponies that went wrong almost immediately. Both almost certainly with pre-existing issues. It’s sad and stressful. One was PTS at 5 and 1 retired at 6. They are not machines. They break. They both passed vettings. It never even occurred to me to try and claim miss-selling

 

[Birker2020]

There’s no evidence the OP has been ripped off. Dodgy sellers with lame ponies don’t generally offer 5 stage vettings. Whatever the problem is was subtle or ambiguous enough for a vet to miss.

I’ve bought 2 ponies that went wrong almost immediately. Both almost certainly with pre-existing issues. It’s sad and stressful. One was PTS at 5 and 1 retired at 6. They are not machines. They break. They both passed vettings. It never even occurred to me to try and claim miss-selling

Yes but you could maybe afford to take the hit or you have other horses to ride. When your a one horse owner on a livery yard with nothing else to ride you might possibly feel a bit hard done by if you want to ride. Or when you've paid several thousand pounds and it's all you've dreamed about and kept you going after losing a much loved previous horse.

The OP in this case has the pony for her daughter. I assume whilst she has this pony the daughter is unable to ride and they cannot afford another one. Not everyone is in the position that you might be in so maybe you can afford to think like that. Some of us are not so lucky.

 

[Ample Prosecco]

I didn’t suck it up because I could afford to, but because I did not believe I had a prayer in getting anywhere with a claim. And I wasn’t sure trying to claim was justified either. I suspect that the dealer who sold the 5 year old did know she wasn’t right but had no way of proving it. I very much doubt the private seller who sold the 6 year old did, so blaming her would have felt very unfair.

 

[ycbm]

Yes but you could maybe afford to take the hit or you have other horses to ride. When your a one horse owner on a livery yard with nothing else to ride you might possibly feel a bit hard done by if you want to ride. Or when you've paid several thousand pounds and it's all you've dreamed about and kept you going after losing a much loved previous horse.

The OP in this case has the pony for her daughter. I assume whilst she has this pony the daughter is unable to ride and they cannot afford another one. Not everyone is in the position that you might be in so maybe you can afford to think like that. Some of us are not so lucky.

It isn't a question of being able to afford the money to "think like that". Horses are living animals, not pullovers with a split seam. And so many people can't spot a lame horse until it's on 3 legs, especially hind end.

Unless you can absolutely prove that the seller knew a horse was unsound when you bought it, it's libel to suggest that they did. And it's rubbing salt in an already very sore wound to allow it to dwell in your mind. I am speaking from experience.
.

 

[whizzer]

What shall I do??
I bought a pony (5 stage vetted) for my daughter in July this year as suitable for a nervous rider who doesn't buck, bolt rear etc (have written confirmation of this). The pony bucked my daughter off in her first official lesson about 9 days after purchase (I have video footage). Daughter's trainer said he didn't look happy and I should send him back. I thought I would give him the benefit of the doubt (trusted the dealer as she is known by so many people I know!).
To add - the dealer is acting on behalf of a private seller, although she has signed the sales receipt, I paid money direct to the private seller.
Anyway, after much stress and having another highly experienced trainer, and a physio, and my vet tell me that he is uncomfortable somewhere, I had him x-rayed yesterday which was inconclusive and needs further investigation.
I am having the vetting blood tested now (also - the previous owners are not allowing access to his vet records!).
Should I just try and return the pony who daughter loves but is being very grown up about the situation. Or spend more money diagnosing him..and treating him if this turns out to be an option.
I have already accessed a solicitor but have not yet instructed to proceed.
What would you do in this situation?

 

[Gamebird]

I’m not sure it even has to be two sides. I bought an 11 year old horse that was never right, and after 3 year of trying to get him right (via various vet hospital work ups) he was PTS.

I think he was very finely balanced in old long term home and something in changing home /lifestyle / rider / farrier / bodyworker caused the stack of dominos to fall.

I think this is SO often the case. As a vet I see this fairly often post-purchase. Most often it's the change in rider/workload (in either direction)/type of work, but it can also be yard/lifestyle/environment/farriery. A lot of times the horse genuinely was sound at the vetting, and doing OK in its previous home, but like you say, everything has been very well balanced, and the horse is well adapted to his lifestyle. Then things change, sometimes just slightly, and previously silent underlying issues come to the surface.

 

[ycbm]

I think this is SO often the case. As a vet I see this fairly often post-purchase. Most often it's the change in rider/workload (in either direction)/type of work, but it can also be yard/lifestyle/environment/farriery. A lot of times the horse genuinely was sound at the vetting, and doing OK in its previous home, but like you say, everything has been very well balanced, and the horse is well adapted to his lifestyle. Then things change, sometimes just slightly, and previously silent underlying issues come to the surface.

I sometimes wonder how much longer vets will agree to do pre purchase vettings when they take so much stick for things that go wrong shortly after purchase. I really feel for you!
.

 

[Ample Prosecco]

My vet hates them. The more expensive the horse the more anxious he feels about passing fit for purpose. And yes there is endless grief from disgruntled buyers when horses go wrong or old issues emerge.

 

[throwawayaccount]

I didn't pursue Lari being missold as much as I could have because by the time I realised there was a problem of the magnitude that there was there is no way I could have surrendered him back to the seller in return for my money as I'd developed strong feelings for him on account of all the rehab and groundwork I'd carried out.

same with my pony. i did actually reach out to a solicitor, sent all evidence over. i would have been able to get my money back but decided against this-- i didn't want to return my pony as i knew she'd just get sold on/ridden through her issues.

 

[blitznbobs]

Horses go lame every day - i had a mare go lame (2/10 ) 2 weeks ago - vet couldnt come for a few days and when they arrived swelling had gone down and she was sound - vet shrugged and left… should i declare this two days of non descript lameness to a buyer if i sold her 2 years from now? Probably not. Could there be something underlying- possibly or she had a minor injury in the field that got better… a fishing expedition proves nothing- a five stage vetting proves the horse was sound the day it was vetted and nothing more. I have had horses pass the vet and be crippled 6 weeks later and ‘thats horses for you’ they are animals not machines you cant just get a new part - and they can be fine one day and not fine the next… sometimes sh*t happens

 

[onemoretime]

The pony wasn’t vetted

 

[onemoretime]

Apparently the pony was vetted so should be able to run blood.