Bought unseen problems returning

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The OP has started several times now that she doesn't have the experience or want to work with him which is fine, her confidence has been knocked & by the sounds of it this horse needs consistent, calm handing which OP can't provide.
The problem is though she is stuck with the horse.
If she sends him back she can say Goodbye to her money.
She is left with few options. Either sell him on as he is. Unfair on the horse and she will lose money.
Keep him and get him properly vetted so she has a better idea whats wrong and then sell him (If she can) Pay someone to work with him and sort out his issues ( if he is not too broken)
Or possibly find grass livery to turn him out for a few weeks and see if time and rest can help him. Pts and cut her losses. Or of course simply send him back to go back on the horrible merry go round with the dealer but she will lose her money.
I think if it were me I would get some one experienced to handle him for a vetting and then depending on the outcome turn him away for a month .
As it stands he is her horse now and simply keeping him locked up in a stable is not going to help.
 
Don't all horses need calm consistent handling?
That's why I said with the right help
A good trainer will train the handler a
Of course. However not everyone is cut out to provide that to an anxious animal and OP has said several times now she can't do this for him

Who's handling him in between sessions? The OP isn't up to it & the yard doesn't sound overly competent either. OP has stated she can't afford to send him away either.
The problem is though she is stuck with the horse.
If she sends him back she can say Goodbye to her money.
She is left with few options. Either sell him on as he is. Unfair on the horse and she will lose money.
Keep him and get him properly vetted so she has a better idea whats wrong and then sell him (If she can) Pay someone to work with him and sort out his issues ( if he is not too broken)
Or possibly find grass livery to turn him out for a few weeks and see if time and rest can help him. Pts and cut her losses. Or of course simply send him back to go back on the horrible merry go round with the dealer but she will lose her money.
I think if it were me I would get some one experienced to handle him for a vetting and then depending on the outcome turn him away for a month .
As it stands he is her horse now and simply keeping him locked up in a stable is not going to help.
As I said in my original response the way I see it her options are sending him back and lose the horse and money (not what I would do personally), or get him turned out for a few weeks, vetted and depending on the outcome try and find him a new home.

There is no point in people going on and on about sending him to a pro etc if she can't afford it she can't afford it.

The only other option is PTS to get him off this merry go round.
 
There is no point in people going on and on about sending him to a pro etc if she can't afford it she can't afford it.
Perhaps I'm being naive, but I would like to think there might be someone reading this thread who would either take this horse and work with him for a few weeks pro bono or who has their own land and might offer a free space to turn him away for a while? Or could someone experienced help @Jasmine2023 to contact WHW?
 
So actually her horse her circus, she doesn't have to do anything she doesn't want to or is unable to. We don't know if she has unlimited pockets for trainers, vets, rehab etc. Yes she might lose money on a sale, but from a pure finance point of view she may also lose a lot less than if she goes down the route of trying to fix him in the way of spending money. Mind you someone said he would be worth 15k if a safe as houses cobs so maybe she won't lose loads on moving him on.

I agree with a couple of posters, with a frightened bargy cob that even a vet can't do a proper vetting on, if he doesn't get handled correctly the situation may get worse and the horse may be in an even worse place then when he arrived.

I'm not on the you have to fix it bandwagon, you don't, regardless of what advice here says you have to do or your only option is. Sometimes the best option is to admit you are not the right person for the job. but of course, it would be much nicer for the horse I'd you found someone who were able to take on this horse and finally be able to get him out of this spiral in whatever shape this may be. Sometimes life just isn't fair for anyone.
 
Surely the first thing that needs to happen is to get him some decent turnout? Any issues behavioural or otherwise are only going to exacerbated by keeping him shut in a stable.

It’s such a shame my toddler has recently taken a greater interest in the horses else I’d have said he could be turned away with our boys whilst OP decides what to do. Unfortunately it’s stressful enough keeping her out of the field with horses I’ve known forever so not a risk I’m able to take right now, but hopefully someone else with land might be able to help in the short term.
 
Perhaps I'm being naive, but I would like to think there might be someone reading this thread who would either take this horse and work with him for a few weeks pro bono or who has their own land and might offer a free space to turn him away for a while? Or could someone experienced help @Jasmine2023 to contact WHW?
The horse very likely has veterinary issues which need to be addressed. The photos show a horse camped under with poor muscle development for an 8 yo cob. If the current owner can't get him examined by a vet nobody knows what treatment or remedial work is appropriate or how much pain the horse is currently in.
 
So actually her horse her circus, she doesn't have to do anything she doesn't want to or is unable to. We don't know if she has unlimited pockets for trainers, vets, rehab etc. Yes she might lose money on a sale, but from a pure finance point of view she may also lose a lot less than if she goes down the route of trying to fix him in the way of spending money. Mind you someone said he would be worth 15k if a safe as houses cobs so maybe she won't lose loads on moving him on.

I agree with a couple of posters, with a frightened bargy cob that even a vet can't do a proper vetting on, if he doesn't get handled correctly the situation may get worse and the horse may be in an even worse place then when he arrived.

I'm not on the you have to fix it bandwagon, you don't, regardless of what advice here says you have to do or your only option is. Sometimes the best option is to admit you are not the right person for the job. but of course, it would be much nicer for the horse I'd you found someone who were able to take on this horse and finally be able to get him out of this spiral in whatever shape this may be. Sometimes life just isn't fair for anyone.
yes, it is her horse which is why people are trying to suggest ways to help.
Maybe the vet could not vet him because hes been shut in a stable with no turnout in a strange place with possibly someone handling him who is not experienced enough to handle him well.
Of course she does not have to fix him but she has to find a answer.
Be that send him back, get some help to sort him out physically and mentally or sell him on or pts.
 
I hope you are ok OP.

Really hard for you to have to make a decision about what to do next.

I think you need a behavioural trainer to come to the yard and help first before your vet can assess him properly. Not sure where you are in the country but hopefully someone can recommend an appropriate trainer and go from there.
I am not okay sadly. I suffer with depression, have done most of my life, and am now not in a good place. Certainly not good enough to make any decisions. This horse was to supposed to help get me out of the house for my mental health and my disabilities. I now understand I won't get my money back, I do not want to return for another horse, I cannot spend loads of money on him either. So as of yet I have no clue what to do and cannot think straight. He is getting turned out every day now so you don't need to be concerned about him stuck in the stable.
 
Dodgy dealers make my blood boil. Cruel to horses, place buyers at risk, fleece them of all their cash and utterly ignore the law. And the law lets them - as they are expert at having no money on paper despite continuing to trade.

I also have very mixed feelings about what is best to do in these situations. Yes a horse you buy is now your responsibility but equally failure to ever fight back just further empowers these people.

OP I am so sorry you are in this situation. But as @I'm Dun said upthread you are where you are so you need to look at pros and cons of each option.

1) Send back. They will have the horse AND your money which is highly unlikely you will ever get back. Plus the horse is returned to a bad situation so no one wins except the dealer.
2) Exchange. This horse is returned to a bad situation but another one escapes it. The dealer is then forced to re-sell horse A. Causes at least SOME disruption to him. Ethically I could live with this, though I know others don't feel the same way. The horse you get in return will also have issues. So you could be out of the frying pan into the fire but if you take a very experienced person with you, you can mitigate some risk. I dropped my missold horse off myself and picked up another there and then which I would advise. Because there is no guarantee they will send you another whatever they agree. And if they get to choose they will unload a total dud
3) Sell the hosrse now with full disclosure. You won't get much back. But may get someone willing to take a punt for £1-2K
4) Set a budget for getting help to work with the horse to get him more saleable. 24/7 turnout in company to let him decompress. Zero feed. Daily calm consistent handling. Then a short term spell with a pro. Or do it on a sales livery basis. Send to someone who offers both schooling and sales livery. You may spend 1K and be able to sell for £5K. Or you may spend £1k to discover he's a physical wreck and you've thrown good money after bad. No way of knowing at this point.
5) Keep him and commit to doing the best you can by him with a lot of expert help. He's not the horse you wanted but hes the horse you've got and if you take a longer term view, he may turn out ok for what you wanted - low level hacking - even if he does have some issues to work through first. You are not confident now but if he changes, then your feelings about him may change too.
6) PTS. The quickest solution that ends the stress and saga now and means you don't need to commit anymore money.

Sit with all options and see what feels right, wthout letting your judgement be clouded by angger/bitterness. Raking over the woulda/should/coulda won't help you get clarity on how to move forward.
 
Dodgy dealers make my blood boil. Cruel to horses, place buyers at risk, fleece them of all their cash and utterly ignore the law. And the law lets them - as they are expert at having no money on paper despite continuing to trade.

I also have very mixed feelings about what is best to do in these situations. Yes a horse you buy is now your responsibility but equally failure to ever fight back just further empowers these people.

OP I am so sorry you are in this situation. But as @I'm Dun said upthread you are where you are so you need to look at pros and cons of each option.

1) Send back. They will have the horse AND your money which is highly unlikely you will ever get back. Plus the horse is returned to a bad situation so no one wins except the dealer.
2) Exchange. This horse is returned to a bad situation but another one escapes it. The dealer is then forced to re-sell horse A. Causes at least SOME disruption to him. Ethically I could live with this, though I know others don't feel the same way. The horse you get in return will also have issues. So you could be out of the frying pan into the fire but if you take a very experienced person with you, you can mitigate some risk. I dropped my missold horse off myself and picked up another there and then which I would advise. Because there is no guarantee they will send you another whatever they agree. And if they get to choose they will unload a total dud
3) Sell the hosrse now with full disclosure. You won't get much back. But may get someone willing to take a punt for £1-2K
4) Set a budget for getting help to work with the horse to get him more saleable. 24/7 turnout in company to let him decompress. Zero feed. Daily calm consistent handling. Then a short term spell with a pro. Or do it on a sales livery basis. Send to someone who offers both schooling and sales livery. You may spend 1K and be able to sell for £5K. Or you may spend £1k to discover he's a physical wreck and you've thrown good money after bad. No way of knowing at this point.
5) Keep him and commit to doing the best you can by him with a lot of expert help. He's not the horse you wanted but hes the horse you've got and if you take a longer term view, he may turn out ok for what you wanted - low level hacking - even if he does have some issues to work through first. You are not confident now but if he changes, then your feelings about him may change too.
6) PTS. The quickest solution that ends the stress and saga now and means you don't need to commit anymore money.

Sit with all options and see what feels right, wthout letting your judgement be clouded by angger/bitterness. Raking over the woulda/should/coulda won't help you get clarity on how to move forward.
Yes, whats done is done now. You just have to find a way of moving forward. I would guess if you are going to try and get some money back you will need a vets report and one on his behaviour in any case which will cost you money anyway. Maybe pay a pro to handle him for the vet and you will then at least have a idea of what you are dealing with.
Im sorry you are in this position.
 
His passport says 8.
Does his passport have the name of his breeder and other previous owners? If so, great, you might be able to contact a previous owner for help/suggestions. If not, its probably a replacement passport with made up details.
Thank goodness he is now turned out, so that it is more likely that someone can get near enough to him to present him for a vetting. When you know more about him, you will be in a better place to make a decision about his/your future.
You said that you bought him as a mother/daughter share, is your daughter confident enough to handle him enough to build his confidence in his new home?
 
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Glad to hear he's getting some turnout now op and hopefully he settles a bit and becomes easier to handle which will take some of the stress away.

Take a look at Sophie Seymour Equestrian on FB. She occasionally takes on problem horses and rehabs them. You won't get any money back this way but if he's able to be sorted and be a useful sort then she would find him a decent home. Disclaimer I have never used her personally but followed her a long time and she seems decent.
 
Do we know that he is actually 8?

8 is a lovely expensive age so I doubt it. i just keep coming back to him being 5k which means the dealer paid 1k. If he went through clithero and was sound he should have made 3k give or take,maybe more. A big pretty colour 8yr cob is worth good money to anyone if theres no issues. I'll bet money I dont have that this is someones cast off broken horse that they got rid of and hes entered the downward spiral of crappy dealers. If he goes back he will be shunted off to another dealer and the merry go round will start again.
 
OP I'm over in the Cotswolds so too far to be of any practical use.

I'm not trying to make things harder but I think maybe your yard isnt best placed to help. I know he was being difficult for the vet but honestly as cobs go he sounds very easy, my big lump is lethal, he attacks with his front legs and he bites and means business. He was cut late and has been starved and abused and was a very damaged soul when I got him. It only happens under extreme duress now and is much milder but in the early days the yard staff went in with a yard brush to be able to keep him back out of their space. The root cause of his violence was pain.

But these things can be managed and worked through safely by a competent person, esp if its just to get some vet input to get you some answers.
 
Or he might simply be ignorant
He could have gone from a home like he's in now with owners feeling out of their depth, to the dealer, and then quickly sold on without anyone ever taking the time to teach him decent manners
We don't know that he is actually 8 - he could be any age from 3 upwards

So why was he so cheap and at a dodgy dealer? Did you look at his sales photos? They scream issues.

It would be lovely if he just needed to settle but come on! Hes 10k cheaper than he could have been. Theres a reason for that and its not because he needed to have some work on his manners.
 
Yes, our cob could be a complete thug, however when ridden and worked he is a complete angel! With so much to give and with a heart of gold and bucket loads of talent

So many horses are written off when time and patience leads to both parties understanding each other and going places they never dreamt

Great he is going out, well done

Perhaps if you could make friends with him to start, he is lost, you are not in the best of health, this could be a chance for both of you to take some small steps forwards and help each other, even if you don't keep him forever, give the lad a chance, sit and think about him quietly, forget your woes, go and give him some time when you concentrate on him, it will do you good, if you could groom him and talk to him, give him some nice vibes, take time make eye contact

This why horses are so good for us, the small steps that seem like mountains are a huge achievement, not saying you will ever ride him, put that away for now, while you have him and thinking about which way to jump, make a connection with him for his sake, so he is not piece of meat, but a lost soul who needs help really

perhaps his teeth etc need attention is he immunised for tetanus, wormed , if you got a vet dentist they could sedate and do all that in one go and look him over for you
 
Or he might simply be ignorant
He could have gone from a home like he's in now with owners feeling out of their depth, to the dealer, and then quickly sold on without anyone ever taking the time to teach him decent manners
We don't know that he is actually 8 - he could be any age from 3 upwards


This is it, no one knows
 
You're not a million mines away from me but I've just found out I'm pregnant so while I'd usually offer I'm not really willing to risk it ATM.

I think your next step has to be getting him vet checked. You need to know if his issues are pain based or if he's just being anxious and badly mannered. That will likely mean paying a pro to hold him - your vet and farrier may know someone who can help.

I'd highly recommend testing for PSSM because it causes body pain and can lead to some very tricky behaviour.
 
8 is a lovely expensive age so I doubt it. i just keep coming back to him being 5k which means the dealer paid 1k. If he went through clithero and was sound he should have made 3k give or take,maybe more. A big pretty colour 8yr cob is worth good money to anyone if theres no issues. I'll bet money I dont have that this is someones cast off broken horse that they got rid of and hes entered the downward spiral of crappy dealers. If he goes back he will be shunted off to another dealer and the merry go round will start again.
I wondered if he might be younger and that might go some way to explain his behaviour. Perhaps wishful thinking on my part that he's not too physically compromised!

Hopefully with the turnout now he might settle enough that a vet can get a proper look at him and then go from there OP. It at least gives a bit of breathing space before making longer term decisions.
 
Does his passport have the name of his breeder and other previous owners? If so, great, you might be able to contact a previous owner for help/suggestions. If not, its probably a replacement passport with made up details.
Thank goodness he is now turned out, so that it is more likely that someone can get near enough to him to present him for a vetting. When you know more about him, you will be in a better place to make a decision about his/your future.
You said that you bought him as a mother/daughter share, is your daughter confident enough to handle him enough to build his confidence in his new home?
Sorry I meant he was advertised as that I don't have any children.
OP I'm over in the Cotswolds so too far to be of any practical use.

I'm not trying to make things harder but I think maybe your yard isnt best placed to help. I know he was being difficult for the vet but honestly as cobs go he sounds very easy, my big lump is lethal, he attacks with his front legs and he bites and means business. He was cut late and has been starved and abused and was a very damaged soul when I got him. It only happens under extreme duress now and is much milder but in the early days the yard staff went in with a yard brush to be able to keep him back out of their space. The root cause of his violence was pain.

But these things can be managed and worked through safely by a competent person, esp if its just to get some vet input to get you some answers.
He did kick out at the vet with his front leg.
So why was he so cheap and at a dodgy dealer? Did you look at his sales photos? They scream issues.

It would be lovely if he just needed to settle but come on! Hes 10k cheaper than he could have been. Theres a reason for that and its not because he needed to have some work on his manners.
I am not that experienced that's why I consulted the yard owner who thought he looked okay from the videos I was sent.
 
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