Bought unseen problems returning

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LadyGascoyne said:
You can argue it either way (as with most things) but if I were arguing for the current owner, I would be framing:

A person with physical and mental health problems has bought a horse on the basis that it was advertised as an RDA candidate, and then discovered that only a week earlier it was advertised at a sale as green and requiring a confident rider to bring back into work.

I don't think I'd have a problem taking that line, if a return and refund was sought.

What would be more difficult is to return and refund on a vet issue as the buyer elected not to have it vetted before the purchase. So if it is a refund situation, I'd rely on the unsuitability argument.

Personally though, I'd hold onto the horse if all is well vet wise, because I think it's very cute.
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If I was the dealer I would be fuming especially if I had read this thread and I would be pursuing Jasmine. I cannot see anything in the advert that is a lie or even misleading. I think Ozzy had been ridden by a 10yo I read somewhere so mother and daughter share is OK.

advertised as an RDA candidate doesn't say he has been trained as one. He may be suitable given the correct training. . It only says he is a candidate, when trained he may fail at it.

did the dealer know Jasmine had health problems? if she had made that clear and any horse must fit in with that then OK but if not why would it come into it. It would be her responsibility to make sure the horse she was buying was suitable for health problems by looking at it, getting it professionally assessed.

This dealer may have a reputation I have no idea but from what has been said (and I suspect there is stuff that has not been said, we only recently learnt Jasmine rode Ozzie last week) I cannot see what legal case J has.
The price was reasonable, he was not advertised as anything he wasn't.

For someone buying him there was a lot they could have done to protect themselves before buying. Get him vetted at the dealers and watch how he behaved. Visit and lead him, tack him up, ride him in traffic or anywhere else. It seems to have been pretty easy for people on here in 1 night to have come up with his entire history, pics etc and details of his previous owner. They could have been contacted prior to purchase to discuss if he would be suitable.The dealer could have been googled both him personally and as a dealer. Now there is also a pic of him on the auction website.

There was no reason to take much of a risk buying Ozzie. Just do your homework.

The problem here appears to have been the Jasmine's total lack of experience both in horse handling and especially lack of recognition that some new horses take a long time to settle. In that settling in period the new horse is not going to behave like a saint. Also in having a go at the dealer on a public forum which in this particular instance appears to have been unnecessary. It would have been better to get qualified help to assess the situation and then go back to the dealer with a professional opinion if there was a problem which there doesn't even seem to be.

Jasmine2023 said:
I found Ozzy on the auction website. He was sold on the 24th May and then Devine put him up for sale on the 25th absolutely disgusting.
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Devine is a horse dealer, that is how he makes his living. He saw a suitable horse, bought it and advertised it. Full stop. Many horse dealers do the same. He did't buy the horse as a pet to keep so obviously he put him up for sale. I'm not sure what difference the timing makes. If he collected Ozzie on the 24th then on that day or the 25th he must have got the girl riding and taken pics so after a day at the sales and rehoused Ozzie was perfectly manageable and per his video apparently easy to tack up.

To be very very blunt here (and I appreciate this will not get many likes) I don't understand why J is considering legal action, if I was her I would keep my head down and hope Devine goes away. Also, even more bluntly, spend the time instead of worrying about legal action, commenting on auction sites and previous owners actions sending to auction on getting to know Ozzie and handling him.

I see a lovely horse here and I really hope he gets a good home but something is starting to seem odd and it is not Ozzie.
 
Jasmine2023 said:
I found Ozzy on the auction website. He was sold on the 24th May and then Devine put him up for sale on the 25th absolutely disgusting.
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It's business some people just don't have the emotional attachment to animals but do run a business.
I wouldn't be to upset about him going to an auction some people especially if in real Wales don't want the hassle of people viewing etc.
It's not like he was ever going to end up on a meat wagon.
So please don't waste your emotions.

If anything I think you've possibly got a half decent pony actually worth twice what you paid. He just needs some condition on and regular work.
 
Tiddlypom said:
Not more auction bashing, please. They are a regulated way for a vendor to get a hassle free sale.

There’s already another thread running that is trying to make out that horses end up at auction need rescuing.
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They might be regulated but the thought of any animal of mine going through that turns my stomach.

However what's done is done and I agree with @paddy555 that it's time to move on. Ozzy has hopefully been lucky and found a lovely home 😊
 
AdorableAlice said:
Have you ever tried regulating the community where the horse came from ? Anarchy covers it.
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I know, but was in response to those saying dealer did nothing wrong or dealer could come for poster etc. Actually the dealer is not following the law themselves.

Whether we agree with the law in regards to horses is neither here nor there, that is what the law says.
 
For an animal from that dealer op has been extremely extremely lucky.

She's also banned from keeping horses yet clearly still does and legal action would likely to potentially costly without achieving anything and be additional stress op does not need.

In their shoes I'd block dealer and cut my losses and just accept I'd (very much against the odds) seemingly managed to get a very nice cob from one of the most notorious dodgy dealers out there

ETA I have pony envy of Ozzy, I think he looks smashing 😍
 
paddy555 said:
If I was the dealer I would be fuming especially if I had read this thread and I would be pursuing Jasmine. I cannot see anything in the advert that is a lie or even misleading. I think Ozzy had been ridden by a 10yo I read somewhere so mother and daughter share is OK.

advertised as an RDA candidate doesn't say he has been trained as one. He may be suitable given the correct training. . It only says he is a candidate, when trained he may fail at it.

did the dealer know Jasmine had health problems? if she had made that clear and any horse must fit in with that then OK but if not why would it come into it. It would be her responsibility to make sure the horse she was buying was suitable for health problems by looking at it, getting it professionally assessed.

This dealer may have a reputation I have no idea but from what has been said (and I suspect there is stuff that has not been said, we only recently learnt Jasmine rode Ozzie last week) I cannot see what legal case J has.
The price was reasonable, he was not advertised as anything he wasn't.

For someone buying him there was a lot they could have done to protect themselves before buying. Get him vetted at the dealers and watch how he behaved. Visit and lead him, tack him up, ride him in traffic or anywhere else. It seems to have been pretty easy for people on here in 1 night to have come up with his entire history, pics etc and details of his previous owner. They could have been contacted prior to purchase to discuss if he would be suitable.The dealer could have been googled both him personally and as a dealer. Now there is also a pic of him on the auction website.

There was no reason to take much of a risk buying Ozzie. Just do your homework.

The problem here appears to have been the Jasmine's total lack of experience both in horse handling and especially lack of recognition that some new horses take a long time to settle. In that settling in period the new horse is not going to behave like a saint. Also in having a go at the dealer on a public forum which in this particular instance appears to have been unnecessary. It would have been better to get qualified help to assess the situation and then go back to the dealer with a professional opinion if there was a problem which there doesn't even seem to be.


Devine is a horse dealer, that is how he makes his living. He saw a suitable horse, bought it and advertised it. Full stop. Many horse dealers do the same. He did't buy the horse as a pet to keep so obviously he put him up for sale. I'm not sure what difference the timing makes. If he collected Ozzie on the 24th then on that day or the 25th he must have got the girl riding and taken pics so after a day at the sales and rehoused Ozzie was perfectly manageable and per his video apparently easy to tack up.

To be very very blunt here (and I appreciate this will not get many likes) I don't understand why J is considering legal action, if I was her I would keep my head down and hope Devine goes away. Also, even more bluntly, spend the time instead of worrying about legal action, commenting on auction sites and previous owners actions sending to auction on getting to know Ozzie and handling him.

I see a lovely horse here and I really hope he gets a good home but something is starting to seem odd and it is not Ozzie.
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I actually agree with most of this. At this point I’d be happy I got such a beautiful horse for a reasonable price.
 
Tiddlypom said:
Not more auction bashing, please. They are a regulated way for a vendor to get a hassle free sale.

There’s already another thread running that is trying to make out that horses end up at auction need rescuing.
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Well tbf the OP of that thread was actually saying that buying g from an auction isn' t rescuing.
 
@Jasmine2023

Now you have managed to piece together where Ozzy has come from and what happened in between, you can now understand why your boy was so overwhelmed when he arrived at your yard. Looking at the post with the videos of him at home and the children riding him, I honestly think you have got a lovely cob with a heart of gold.
I know it was very upsetting what you saw on the day he arrived but try and put it out your head and start on your new journey of getting to know him.
I wish you and your new boy the very best of luck and have lots of fun with him.
 
paddy555 said:
If I was the dealer I would be fuming especially if I had read this thread and I would be pursuing Jasmine. I cannot see anything in the advert that is a lie or even misleading. I think Ozzy had been ridden by a 10yo I read somewhere so mother and daughter share is OK.
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If this dealer does not want to comply with the law with regards to distance selling regulations then he should stop selling horses unseen. You are entitled to return the horse and have a refund for any reason or none regardless of whether the dealer makes up their own terms and conditions on fb. This applies even if you got the horse home and decided you wanted a dog instead. He spends enough time on dodgy dealer pages arguing with disgruntled customers and getting his mates to wade in on them to be aware of this. I don't agree with the law and think that if you don't have the where with all to go in person to view a horse to see at least at a basic level if you are compatible then you going to find horse ownership very very challenging especially with limited experience and funds. Buying unseen is fine for people who are much more flexible and prepared to work with whatever turns up.

FieldOrnaments said:
She's also banned from keeping horses yet clearly still does and legal action would likely to potentially costly without achieving anything and be additional stress op does not need.
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Dealer is not banned. As well as dealing mostly in cobs or draught types he also shows cobs and breeds them. The girl riding looks like Lucia Stanton but in any case the court order may not preclude her from riding other peoples horses.
 
Oh Jasmine, just read updates on this thread. Ozzy is just beautiful, from the research from other posters he seems like such a genuine, willing and with some trust built will become the sort of cob everyone is after. Which is actually really rare now.

I know your determined with Devine to get a refund but realistically that's not going to happen. What should be done and what will be are very different. Also noted you and the YO have put a timescale on how long to work with him. Your anxiety will be through the roof with that too and more stress is not what you need. Maybe take the timescale away and try give both you and Ozzy time to bond. Was he going to be on working livery?

If you decided to sell privately. Don't think you would have to look far at all, even your YO (she may already haver her eye on him). Even then, you can't guarantee he would not be passed around again or end up with a dealer posing as a private buyer, thats the horsey world only experience end up teaching us all. Ozzy seemed to be in a loving home, bought by dealer then on to you very quickly. It doesn't strike that he's an abuse case that will require alot of rehab.

Have a great day today, really rooting for you and Ozzy x
 
nutjob said:
If this dealer does not want to comply with the law with regards to distance selling regulations then he should stop selling horses unseen. You are entitled to return the horse and have a refund for any reason or none regardless of whether the dealer makes up their own terms and conditions on fb. This applies even if you got the horse home and decided you wanted a dog instead. He spends enough time on dodgy dealer pages arguing with disgruntled customers and getting his mates to wade in on them to be aware of this. I don't agree with the law and think that if you don't have the where with all to go in person to view a horse to see at least at a basic level if you are compatible then you going to find horse ownership very very challenging especially with limited experience and funds. Buying unseen is fine for people who are much more flexible and prepared to work with whatever turns up.



Dealer is not banned. As well as dealing mostly in cobs or draught types he also shows cobs and breeds them. The girl riding looks like Lucia Stanton but in any case the court order may not preclude her from riding other peoples horses.
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I thought Lucia Stanton / devine cobs were one and the same? Are they not?
 
Mrs. Jingle said:
I feel very sad for the OP, but I am sure she realises how very foolish she was to purchase a horse like this, sight unseen, no vetting etc. etc. so no point labouring the point. My main concern (sorry OP but it is a fact for me anyway) is the future of this poor horse. For one I could not bear the thought of sending him back to the dealer to continue on the merry go round of cruelty and abuse as he passes from one dealer to the next.

Because it is very much cruelty and abuse to offer a horse like this for sale when it very clearly has huge issues, either mentally or physically and never an offer of a permanent caring home willing to either get to the bottom of the issue or PTS. OP you are going to lose your money anyway, and I know that is a huge blow being a pensioner myself.

However, in view of that could you not just try at least to get a full vetting done to establish what, if any, health problems the horse has and then make decisions about trying to treat or get expert help if it is behaviour related? If you send him back I can guarantee you will not get any money back and any other horse offered to you will be the same if not worse. And can you truly rest easy knowing the poor horse is still in that cruel chain when you could have at least tried to help in. Big ask I know, but sometimes life throws huge curve balls at us, it is how we deal with them that makes the difference to not just ourselves but anyone or any animal that is affected by our more difficult life decisions.
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Agree 100 per cent.
 
FieldOrnaments said:
I thought Lucia Stanton / devine cobs were one and the same? Are they not?
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No. I won't name the contact I was given, and I was subsequently warned off by others, but tbh I think they're just one of those dealers where you need to have your wits about you rather than borderline criminal as some have suggested.
 
ester said:
I think most people would think more of a dealer that had done a decent assessment period before advertising. But it is what it is and arguably probably best he didn't spend too much time with this one. Seems like I might need to hunt out some badges.
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One of mine came from a dealer, sport horses so different market. I think the adverts went up immediately but he asked me to wait a week to let him settle before I tried.

I also follow some people who deal in ex racehorses on Facebook (reputable ones) and often a horse goes up on the page as just in as soon as they arrive and still under assessment.

I do want to add one thing. Many of us leisure riders want a horse to be a friend not just do a job. Some perfectly behaved horses don't welcome humans all over them, I also know of some sharp to ride who are sweethearts in the stable. So meeting before you buy to see if you click is in my opinion important.
 
U.N.Owen said:
As it was a distance sale, as per the law, the dealer should have accepted return for refund regardless of whether the horse was as described or not.
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Yes but that's a different thing to going down the misrepresented route which in this case is more nuanced.

But op will have to fight for her money back with little likelihood of success. Dealer is offering an exchange and in this case not sure you'll get something better.
 
oh bless his heart, no wonder he was so stressed. seems like the pair of you have had a time off it through this process!

echo everyone else, i think you’ve managed to land yourself a lovely little horse who’ll be amazing given half a chance!

i’m sure we’d all love to follow along if you start a dedicated thread for him - you’ve got the well known user tag now, there’s no escaping us all!🤣
 
Hi Jasmine. Re your comment about selling at auction, I too wouldn’t want to sell through one but here in West Wales it is the done thing. I think it’s because we are so rural and that is how farmers move/sell their livestock so it is also done with horses. I’ve been looking on and off for a while for another horse and am now looking at auctions (never been to one in my life) because that’s where they are sold. I think I must be very close to Ozzy’s previous owner as the photo of him at The Three Horseshoes in Llangeitho is not that far from me. So she may well have put him through the auction thinking there was a good chance that a private individual would snap him up. ETA I do not know his previous owner nor where Ozzy was living!
 
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nutjob said:
If this dealer does not want to comply with the law with regards to distance selling regulations then he should stop selling horses unseen. You are entitled to return the horse and have a refund for any reason or none regardless of whether the dealer makes up their own terms and conditions on fb. This applies even if you got the horse home and decided you wanted a dog instead.
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My comment was about the accuracy of the advert. There was nothing to stop OP returning the horse and taking legal action to get a refund. She asked and people warned this may not be cost effective. There was nothing to stop her ignoring that advice. That was nothing to do with whether Ozzie was a candidate for RDA.

her comments were not that she really wanted a dog but how difficult the horse was despite what was said in the adverts. ie he was misdescribed whereas the problem appears to have stemmed from her own inexperience. We seem to have had 19 pages where it is has been clear what the problem with Ozzie was and Jasmine, to my mind, seemed to want to blame everyone rather than either load him in a lorry and return him and take action to recover her money or to deal with Ozzie.
I think there is a lot we don't know here. I don't feel any attraction coming through towards Ozzie so possibly the situation may be that having got a horse (any horse) that may in hindsight have been a bad idea in which case just sell him.
I genuinely don't understand the problem. He is a lovely horse, his history is known, he is a saint to have coped so well so just get on spend all your time with him and ride. If you are too scared to ride then lead him out in hand until you get to know each other better.
 
Just to clarify this dealer knew about my disabilties I told him what I needed. He also lied about having Ozzy for 6 weeks to assess, he clearly did not. That and others lies made me want to take the matter further and prevent anyone else for ending up in the same situation. That is why I posted about him Facebook as a lady was looking to purchase a horse from him and I didn't want her to end up with the same issue. As for my inexperience why do you think I wanted a safe steady horse. He has been handled by experts and still got the same behaviour today in his stable. Ozzy has not behaved as described in his advert he most definately doe not have good stable manners.
 
The horse I’ve known and ridden for well over a year (and now own) has taken a good 3 months to be really settled at our new yard since we moved. We had to go back to basics with him and install manners. He’s like a different horse now and coming along so lovely. He just turned 5 and is very green but we’re getting there. It has taken hard work and daily consistency, with a lesson every week and lots of hacking. He damn near killed me the first day I worked him at the new place. Traveling and moving really does upset them and it will take a while to settle. I think we underestimate the effect on them.

Ozzie could be a total gem after a few months of work — stick with him. He’s not the finished product but that’s not what you’re going to get from a dealer. It’s very much ‘buyer beware’. If you don’t click after a summer of schooling and sorting him out (teeth/worming/jabs etc), I’d imagine you should be able to make your money back if you decide to sell him on. That’s just me taking any emotion out of it, I don’t mean it to sound harsh. He’s lovely!

Also, the world of horse dealers is rough and if you’ve not been exposed to it, it can be quite shocking. But it is business and trust me it’s normal for people to buy/sell horses on like this without an emotional attachment. It’s sad, I know.
 
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