Box on a budget

[sarahmac77]

Hi there - I've been scoping around thinking about buying a 3.5 ton box on VERRRY little money. I don't care about - colour, looks, even mileage really, but just that it's safe, in okay shape, not SO old that it has its own bus pass, and can take 2 x 16.2s ideally, or have a payload of over 1200.
I'm a total beginner with boxes, and sadly I can't get a trailer because I live in London and can't afford to keep a car to tow it in the ULEZ.
So - what are you essentials to look out for? Am I being MENTAL?
I've been looking at boxes max £7k, btw (as I also have to pay a parking fee at my yard). (I know! I know! It's not a lot of money - but it IS to me.). I'm baffled as to how people afford the £25k+ boxes!

 

[Squeak]

Have you got your HGV or LGV licence? I think you'll find it very hard to find a 3.5t that will take two 16.2's. Do you know how much the two horses weigh? My experience is that a 16.2 can easily weight 600kg each and that would mean that as soon as you have a driver, fuel, water, hay and tack on the lorry you would be overweight.

You could look at a 4.5t or 3.9t to carry two 16.2's but you would then need the LGV or HGV. I'm not too sure as to prices at the moment but I've heard that the market is very hot for the 3.5t's now. Others might have a better idea of what you can get for 7k.

 

[sarahmac77]

I don't have it, no - but my horse is 580kg and just under 16.3. TBH it could be a bit less... but if the payload was 1100 that'd work...
I don't want to drive a bigger box tbh.

 

[Squeak]

I don't have it, no - but my horse is 580kg and just under 16.3. TBH it could be a bit less... but if the payload was 1100 that'd work...
I don't want to drive a bigger box tbh.

Do you just have the one horse you need to transport? Sadly it's the frustrating thing with 3.5t's that you can't transport more than one horse - small ponies you can just about do. You'd get away with 1 x 580kg horse but not two. Otherwise you've got 1160kg of just horses weight leaving 40kg for person, fuel, water and equipment.

 

[milliepops]

My old 3.5t was in your budget but the payload was only enough for one horse. I sold it for 5.5k and it was over 20 yrars old! I also think you'll really struggle to find something to carry 2 big horses in that budget, the older boxes were generally built before the payload was considered really. The newer ones are possibly built light enough but they would be way more expensive.

 

[sarahmac77]

Do you just have the one horse you need to transport? Sadly it's the frustrating thing with 3.5t's that you can't transport more than one horse - small ponies you can just about do. You'd get away with 1 x 580kg horse but not two. Otherwise you've got 1160kg of just horses weight leaving 40kg for person, fuel, water and equipment.

I'm VERY light.
Just kidding. well, I travelled him with a cob recently in a 3.5... I guess the reason is to try and claw back a bit of money by sharing the costs and journeys. Also heading to events solo might be a bit of a sad affair so if i could take a friend it'd be better (for general safety and support too!). If it's 1200 I can take mine, friend (cob or smaller horse) and have space for tack and us I think...

 

[milliepops]

Most of the ones I could afford with a 7k budget had payload c900kg so be really careful. I agree an uprated one would be a better option but they seem rare as hen's teeth.

 

[Squeak]

I'm VERY light.
Just kidding. well, I travelled him with a cob recently in a 3.5... I guess the reason is to try and claw back a bit of money by sharing the costs and journeys. Also heading to events solo might be a bit of a sad affair so if i could take a friend it'd be better (for general safety and support too!). If it's 1200 I can take mine, friend (cob or smaller horse) and have space for tack and us I think...

I'd really double check your figures on this. Allowing the friends horse to be light at 400kg you'd end up with:

1 horse 580kg
1 pony 400kg
2 light people 100kg
Fuel 100kg
2 x Tack 25kg

Which would take you to 1205 but 400kg is a pony and this still doesn't allow for hay or water for the horses or any spare gear. It also assumes that both people are under the average weight of 60kg.

And as MP says it's fairly rare for 3.5t's especially the older ones to have a 1200kg payload.

 

[Squeak]

I'd really double check your figures on this. Allowing the friends horse to be light at 400kg you'd end up with:

1 horse 580kg
1 pony 400kg
2 light people 100kg
Fuel 100kg
2 x Tack 25kg

Which would take you to 1205 but 400kg is a pony and this still doesn't allow for hay or water for the horses or any spare gear. It also assumes that both people are under the average weight of 60kg.

And as MP says it's fairly rare for 3.5t's especially the older ones to have a 1200kg payload.

ETA you'd be surprised by how many people take two on a 3.5t and don't realise that they're overweight. If you have an accident and are overweight it can invalidate your insurance or if the police check your weight you can get quite a big fine. It also damages the horsebox/ vehicle as they aren't built for the weight ( I think it's brakes and suspension). It's one of those that just because you can physically fit two big horses on a 3.5t it doesn't mean you should.

 

[milliepops]

Also you need to check what was on the box when it was weighed.i could have sold mine with a higher payload on the certificate if I'd taken out the partition, spare wheel etc but those are all things you need!

 

[sarahmac77]

I'd really double check your figures on this. Allowing the friends horse to be light at 400kg you'd end up with:

1 horse 580kg
1 pony 400kg
2 light people 100kg
Fuel 100kg
2 x Tack 25kg

Which would take you to 1205 but 400kg is a pony and this still doesn't allow for hay or water for the horses or any spare gear. It also assumes that both people are under the average weight of 60kg.

And as MP says it's fairly rare for 3.5t's especially the older ones to have a 1200kg payload.

Only one person drove and the other and the tack went in the car due to COVID restrictions - but point taken. It was a hire box and definitely not over the payload.
thanks though. All good points.

 

[Nicnac]

Sorry but that's not doable. You'd need a 5t ideally. For your budget you'd be better off going to a short wheel base 6.5t to get the payload as they're cheaper to buy than a 3.5t. Bank loan is your answer if you want more budget as that's how people afford the bigger ones or else they're very rich!

Somebody above gave you some weights but didn't include water - which is 1kg per litre so 50l of diesel and 50l of water is close to 100kg (diesel is very slightly lighter than water but not much!)

 

[eggs]

I'm sorry but you won't get a 3.5 ton lorry that can safely and legally carry two horses on your budget. You would be much better off getting your licence to drive over 3.5 tons and buying a lorry then.

Don't forget that the payload includes everything that will be in the box and not just the weight of the horses.

 

[Surbie]

If budget's that tight, without wanting to sound rude, will you be able to afford the maintenance too? It's lovely to have the freedom to just go out but they can cost a bit to keep running smoothly. Rats ate the wiring on my friend's one recently...
I agree with the others on weight constraints for 3.5t's. I personally don't think 2x 16.2hh plus driver, water, fuel etc would work. I had a bit of a surprise when my 15.3hh horse went on a weighbridge too. He weight-tapes at 574kg, but was 696kg on the weighbridge. Admittedly he's built like a brick privy but I did assume the margin of error for tapes was lower than 20%!

 

[sarahmac77]

If budget's that tight, without wanting to sound rude, will you be able to afford the maintenance too? It's lovely to have the freedom to just go out but they can cost a bit to keep running smoothly. Rats ate the wiring on my friend's one recently...
I agree with the others on weight constraints for 3.5t's. I personally don't think 2x 16.2hh plus driver, water, fuel etc would work. I had a bit of a surprise when my 15.3hh horse went on a weighbridge too. He weight-tapes at 574kg, but was 696kg on the weighbridge. Admittedly he's built like a brick privy but I did assume the margin of error for tapes was lower than 20%!

Yes I can afford the maintenance. I've factored that in. And my horse was weighed last week and is actually 579kg to be accurate!
Thanks all for the insight. Carrying 2 x 16.2s was a hope but if it can carry my boy and someone at the yard's pony to away days and clinics, that'd do. We could always take a car and take water and tack in it.
All doable.

Maybe I just need to sit tight and save a bit more, or sell a kidney.
Anyone need a kidney? Some previous damage, one not very careful owner... frankly definitely been over its payload a few times in the 2000s....!

 

[sarahmac77]

If budget's that tight, without wanting to sound rude, will you be able to afford the maintenance too? It's lovely to have the freedom to just go out but they can cost a bit to keep running smoothly. Rats ate the wiring on my friend's one recently...
I agree with the others on weight constraints for 3.5t's. I personally don't think 2x 16.2hh plus driver, water, fuel etc would work. I had a bit of a surprise when my 15.3hh horse went on a weighbridge too. He weight-tapes at 574kg, but was 696kg on the weighbridge. Admittedly he's built like a brick privy but I did assume the margin of error for tapes was lower than 20%!

15.3 and 696kg! haha! I wouldn't want to accidentally spill his pint!

 

[Surbie]

15.3 and 696kg! haha! I wouldn't want to accidentally spill his pint!

???

It's not so much a leg at each corner as a fuzzy tree trunk. ?

 

[Cowpony]

Be really careful about maintenance! Do you know somebody who can do some of the basic things for you? I reckon I spent £5k over a 3 year period on my first lorry - a 6.5t so plating was £650 before servicing and repairs. I spent the same on my new lorry at its first service and plating! A 3.5t would be cheaper as it has an MOT rather than plating, but the other stuff would cost the same, especially if you get an older one. Battery, tyres, fuel injectors, brakes, floor.....it goes on and on!

 

[RachelFerd]

You can't get a 3.5 tonne that can safely carry two big horses, people and equipment - even with a £30k budget. Don't bother looking, it does not exist.

What I did in your position with a sub £10k budget, was spend £1k doing my C1 test, then bought a 7.5tonne lorry with plenty of payload and a good traceable history of maintenance for around £7k.

It does cost a lot to keep it on the road - but I do quite a few stay-away events so it is worth it for having the living, and I also often carry 2 big horses - with absolutely no concerns about my weight limits.

 

[RachelFerd]

You can't get a 3.5 tonne that can safely carry two big horses, people and equipment - even with a £30k budget. Don't bother looking, it does not exist.

What I did in your position with a sub £10k budget, was spend £1k doing my C1 test, then bought a 7.5tonne lorry with plenty of payload and a good traceable history of maintenance for around £7k.

It does cost a lot to keep it on the road - but I do quite a few stay-away events so it is worth it for having the living, and I also often carry 2 big horses - with absolutely no concerns about my weight limits.

Oh and PPS - if you do go down the 3.5 tonne route, be aware that some cheaper boxes on the market have so little payload you'll struggle to legally carry one horse. Friend of mine thought she'd got a bargain, but when she took it to a weighbridge and discovered there was less than 500kg payload... it was hopeless!

 

[sarahmac77]

Okay thanks though - this has gone down a payload route and lots of people saying the same thing - as I have said before, I can adjust that and work with the 1100/1200 payload. That's not priority - it was more queries about what people look for or hate (breast bars/stallion partitions and so on - or other things a beginner might not know!).
I'm at a yard where we go away en masse, so I can always take a little pony instead, or travel alone and take everyone's tack, for example.

 

[milliepops]

again you may struggle to choose your spec in budget, but you can get things modified. mine had a standard 4' wall when I bought it, so I had a checkplate climb barrier installed and an extra window put in the horse area. it was another thing to budget for but willingness to do stuff like that maximises your options when you are shopping.

other things are your preference really, if you've hired some then you may have some ideas already. I wanted a door between grooms area and horses, makes it easier to sleep in there if you ever want to and also giving access when you're loaded up without needing to let the ramp down.

I don't like stallion partitions much for a horse that travels well, mine prefer to be able to see out of the box when parked though for some horses they are a good choice.

 

[Tiddlypom]

Factor in travelling alone, never 1+ a pony.

If you want to travel two, get a bigger lorry or a trailer.

 

[PeterNatt]

If you want to take more than one horse then you will need a 6.5 or 7.5 ton so that you are legal and safe.
575Kg Weight of Horse
10Kg Riding hat, body protector, gloves, whip, lunge line, competition boots and yard boots
25Kg 2 x saddles, saddle cloth, girths, stirrups and bridles
40Kg 2 x 20 Litres water canisters (A 16hh horse can drink between 30-70 litres a day. Always ensure you travel with water in case of breakdown
10Kg Tack cleaning kit, grooming kit and horse and rider first aid, water bucket, muck rake and scoop
20Kg 2 x Haynets
100Kg Fuel tank of fuel and spare wheel
10Kg Cooler Rug, fly sheet, travel rug
200Kg Rider with 2 passengers
10Kg Picnic lunch, flasks, water bottles, handbags,
1,000Kg Total

I used to keep my horse in London and had a 7.5 Ton (Petrol)!

 

[chaps89]

Also you need to check what was on the box when it was weighed.i could have sold mine with a higher payload on the certificate if I'd taken out the partition, spare wheel etc but those are all things you need!

This with bells on.
My lorry came with a certificate for 1300kg payload.
I had it weighed myself, half a tank of diesel on board and things like partition/saddle rack/spare wheel (ie, stuff you need/fixtures/fittings) but otherwise totally empty and it actually has a payload of 1058kg. Fortunately I only take 2 ponies who are 450kg and 300kg at most, and I do that rarely. It makes me shudder to think the previous owner had 2 x 16 handers in it!

If you hired a lorry which comfortably took 2 (minus the stuff that went separately in the car) I would imagine it was quite new and if used for commercial transport it will have been built/designed to be quite lightweight so you'd have extra payload than you could probably expect to find in an older/cheaper model.

I know you don't want a towing vehicle because of ulez but would a 4x4 kept at the yard with trailer and a small run around for the rest of the time be an option?

 

[ycbm]

I'm afraid "box" and "on a budget" are uncomfortable bedfellows. Any box except one under warranty, and especially one bought with your budget, can dump a huge bill on you at any time. Older ones can be very difficult to source spares for and can quickly become an economic write off.

I hope you achieve your dream, but I felt I had to put the possible downside.
.

 

[humblepie]

Whatever you find - have a good mechanic look it over for you. Definitely not touting for business as not in your area but OH has does a full pre purchase or even post purchase checks over lorries and funnily enough the strangest looking converted 3.5 tonne was one of the ones he said was best put together and in best condition, much better than some of the modern recognised named makes. For him to have said it was a good buy, it must have been pretty good.

 

[Merry neddy man]

Take any box you decide to buy to a weigh bridge before you buy it, you can easily find a local one near the sellers on google, DO NOT take the sellers word for a weight certificate some remove the partition and rubber matting spare wheel even the passenger seats and take it with just a gallon of diesel in the tank, giving a totally false reading, go with them to a place you name and look at the readings yourself. Unfortunately you will struggle to find a 3.5 ton box to carry 2 on your budget.

 

[sarahmac77]

This with bells on.
My lorry came with a certificate for 1300kg payload.
I had it weighed myself, half a tank of diesel on board and things like partition/saddle rack/spare wheel (ie, stuff you need/fixtures/fittings) but otherwise totally empty and it actually has a payload of 1058kg. Fortunately I only take 2 ponies who are 450kg and 300kg at most, and I do that rarely. It makes me shudder to think the previous owner had 2 x 16 handers in it!

If you hired a lorry which comfortably took 2 (minus the stuff that went separately in the car) I would imagine it was quite new and if used for commercial transport it will have been built/designed to be quite lightweight so you'd have extra payload than you could probably expect to find in an older/cheaper model.

I know you don't want a towing vehicle because of ulez but would a 4x4 kept at the yard with trailer and a small run around for the rest of the time be an option?

I've briefly thought of that too but there's a steep parking charge for vehicles at my yard, which also adds. Not a mad idea though...! I also wince at the idea of towing.... seems MUCH HARDER than driving a van! haha

 

[sarahmac77]

Just a note - I had found one, had a 1500 payload, was old but well-loved, and then I checked the ULEZ/LEZ implications - a fee of £300 a day!
I may just have to come to terms with the fact I'm TOO BROKE to own a reasonable horsebox.

My dreams of being an 80cm champion across North-West Kent are dashed on the rocks!