BRC Eligibility for Eventing

[SpottedCat]

I see from my latest magazine that BRC have changed the rules on eligibility for intermediate eventing from last year - it used to be no points, now it is horse not to have gone Novice in that year (notably not combination of horse and rider).

This will rule a lot of RCs out of trying the team comps I fear - last year the only way our RC could get a team for area eventing was to use two of us (lec and I) who had gone Novice on an intermediate team, and we simply didn't have the members riding at a high enough level to field an open team. I believe we are one of the highest membership numbers in the country too, so if we couldn't do it...

I would also not be able to do areas on my horse if I had him back in time because he will have gone novice with his loaner, whereas I won't have evented since last October...not terribly keen on going straight out at Novice (Open) level so there is no point in me trying to get him back in time again.

Bit of a shame because I really enjoyed last years area trials, and despite having gone round a few novice tracks I still only came fourth, so I am rather disheartened by this rule. Can't see what the problem was with having it either that combination (rather than just horse) should not have gone BE novice or in fact leaving it well alone. Lets face it, a horse doing BE novice with no points isn't doing terribly brilliantly at novice now is it?! And yes, I count my horse in that number!!

 

[kick_On]

oooooooo i thought was in last year aswell, but Rc do changes rule often - go as Open individuals. What course will you run over pontispool????
As they do make Open big, but IMO not as big as BE novice tho and sj is defo smaller at quailifiers.
But look at it the other way, if their trying to encourage folk up the grades (eg interm) and there against BE novice horses, Is that a level playing field???. And i always found trying to quailifer at Areas very, very hard as competetion is very HOT!
I personnel prefer points ruling

 

[langside]

so i could do intermediate this year as long as i dont do a novice this year until areas even though last season we won points as a combination?

am i understanding that right?

 

[kick_On]

yeah just checked and that's how i read it aswell

All horses may be currently registered with BE/EI and these must not have any BE/EI points, nor must they have been placed in the first six places in any BE/EI Pre-Novice competition. HORSE TRIALS ONLY: No horse may have completed a BE/EI Pre- Novice or higher standard course in the current calendar year.

So SC you'll be ok for intermedate teams - pm Zeebee as she's a bit of a guru

 

[Britestar]

Thing is, the way the heights for RC Horse trials goes, the Novice is almost Intro, the Inter PN and Open is Novice, so, if you've got a horse that can go round a novice track, then surely go Open?

Our problem is getting folk to do Novice, as the heights are just that bit above true RC Novice. Those that are BE'ing are happy to do Intermed and Open.

 

[SpottedCat]

Current rules from Rider mag which I have in front of me:

Intermediate: Horses may compete with 0-5 BE points however a penalty point will be added to riders score for each BE point they have. [now the crucial bit] Horses are not to have competed in a BE Novice competition in the current year.

 

[SpottedCat]

[ QUOTE ]
Thing is, the way the heights for RC Horse trials goes, the Novice is almost Intro, the Inter PN and Open is Novice, so, if you've got a horse that can go round a novice track, then surely go Open?

Our problem is getting folk to do Novice, as the heights are just that bit above true RC Novice. Those that are BE'ing are happy to do Intermed and Open.

[/ QUOTE ]

Cannot get a team together to do Open, just do not have the rider/horse power, hence doing intermediate so the club can field a team. I'm simply not interested in doing it as an individual, I only compete in RC stuff for a team as I can do individual stuff via affiliating BE/BSJA/BE. I like doing team competitions, it's fun doing team stuff, I like the camaraderie etc.

 

[langside]

awhhh ok thanks SC thats cleared things up a bit for me

why do they have to change rules every year just as your grasping the previous years?

 

[kick_On]

yeah, so long as you don't run in 2009 at BE Novice you can go interm as BRC year start April 1st and haven't run at N in 2009???, just last year 2008?

So you can DEFO run at easier level, so long as your loaner/or you don't do a novice before quailifer/ championships

 

[SpottedCat]

Actually, the stuff in Rider mag is terribly confusing as for the Open the rules read:

Horses may compete with 0-5 BE points however a penalty point will be added to rider's score for each BE point they have.

Then below this is tells you about horses with over 21 points, which makes no sense as even for open they are saying only 0-5 points. They also mention riders who have competed under FEI rules at 3* and above being ineligible for BRC Novice, but say that the exception to this is Rural Riders - except isn't Rural Riders a 2* competition?!!

I am not sure BRC know what their rules are having read that little lot!

 

[SpottedCat]

[ QUOTE ]
yeah, so long as you don't run in 2009 at BE Novice you can go interm as BRC year start April 1st and haven't run at N in 2009???, just last year 2008?

So you can DEFO run at easier level, so long as your loaner/or you don't do a novice before quailifer/ championships

[/ QUOTE ]

Which she is planning to do. Hence we won't be eligible and I therefore can't see the RC being able to field a team - although I hope I am wrong!

 

[Britestar]

SC - we can't get an open team either, but that basically because those BE'ing at that level often regard RC as a 'poorer cousin'. We can rustle up an Inter team and this year amazingly enough 2 Novice teams!

You're right though, its good fun, and our Club always has a great time - whatever the result!

 

[kick_On]

Then sorry, you have to make your mind up what YOU want your horse to do???

You can enter as an individual, aswell as team.......... so they take winning team and winners from sections and depending on how many enter comp they can take 1st and 2nd placing to championships

 

[Goya]

BRC eventing eligibility.

Juniors; Novice--0-5 BE points. (horse will carry 1 penalty for each point )
Intermediate--0-20 BE points. (no penalty points added.

SENIORS.
Novice-- 0 points nor to have been placed 1st-6th in a pre-Novice. Must not have competed in a Pre-Novice or higher standard course in the current calendar year.

(For BRC, Pre-novice placings would accumulate the same amount of points as Novice placings)
Downgrading 3 points for each FULL calendar year the horse is not registered.)

Intermediate----0-5 BE points (horse will carry 1 penalty for each point). Horses are NOT to have competed in a BE Novice competition in the current Year.

Open--0-20 points but the team can have up to 2 ponies/horses with 21-60 BE points. These will carry 1 penalty point for each BE point.
e.g. a horse with 21 BE points will start with 1 penalty, a horse witrh 60 BE points will start with 60 penalties.

Riders who havew competed under FEI rules (with the exception of the Rural Riders CCI European Championships) since 1st January 5 years prior to the Championships are ineligible for the novice horse trials if the event was 3* or above

Downgrading as above applies to all.
Hope this helps

All the above is on the BRC website.

 

[LEC]

What is ridiculous is the horse I have at the moment could do Intermediate as has 3 points and not competed at novice this year but has previously done IN and 1*! This horse could do a stunning dressage so an additional 3 marks is nothing in the scheme of things.

I think this is a stupid rule and should be for horses with no points. Do not know why they decided to mess with it. In our RC area their are proffessional PNers in the sections who always do really well.

 

[SpottedCat]

I'm happy for the loaner to do this with him, after all I loaned him to her as an eventing schoolmaster. I just think it is a shame BRC decided to change the rules. I know you *can* go as an individual but it really doesn't hold an awful lot of interest for me and I just wonder if other clubs will also struggle to field intermediate level teams now the rules have changed.

I am also surprised you think it's an unfair playing field - BE don't think so and I am completely at liberty to go and compete at PN with him until the cows come home, so I don't see why BRC want to be different!

Honestly, this will just mean I don't bother and BRC don't get my money this year. Maybe next year I'll have a play at Open, but only if funds are too tight to go BE!

 

[SpottedCat]

[ QUOTE ]
BRC eventing eligibility.

Juniors; Novice--0-5 BE points. (horse will carry 1 penalty for each point )
Intermediate--0-20 BE points. (no penalty points added.

SENIORS.
Novice-- 0 points nor to have been placed 1st-6th in a pre-Novice. Must not have competed in a Pre-Novice or higher standard course in the current calendar year.

(For BRC, Pre-novice placings would accumulate the same amount of points as Novice placings)
Downgrading 3 points for each FULL calendar year the horse is not registered.)

Intermediate----0-5 BE points (horse will carry 1 penalty for each point). Horses are NOT to have competed in a BE Novice competition in the current Year.

Open--0-20 points but the team can have up to 2 ponies/horses with 21-60 BE points. These will carry 1 penalty point for each BE point.
e.g. a horse with 21 BE points will start with 1 penalty, a horse witrh 60 BE points will start with 60 penalties.

Riders who havew competed under FEI rules (with the exception of the Rural Riders CCI European Championships) since 1st January 5 years prior to the Championships are ineligible for the novice horse trials if the event was 3* or above

Downgrading as above applies to all.
Hope this helps

All the above is on the BRC website.

[/ QUOTE ]

That might be what is on the BRC website but I can assure you it is not what is in the BRC Magazine which has a big purple box in it with 'Eligibility: Please note this has changed from 2008 rules' at the top - the website stuff you've quoted is what I remember as the 2008 rules.

 

[Goya]

The rules are from the BRC 2009 rule book.

 

[kick_On]

I think my area is so hot to quailify................ if you want to do well at RC you have to play canny game.

And so as a rider you have to pick your affilialation to BE or BRC and work within either rules...........

I'm going to Fesitval of Hunter and they changes rules of comp, it's now a 2 phase eventer challenge!!! not just a simple hunter trial. So my poor hunter has to learn to jump coloured poles!!! But YES it's confusing but i'm just going to get on and enjoy comp for what is it.............

KICK ON

And also typing as ex chef thing....... i would ask my good BEers riders to hold pushing up, so we could have cracking Interm teams, or say go as Open indivdual, but support them in whatever they wanted to do

 

[SpottedCat]

The mag simply says for open horses they can have 0-5 BE points, so I guess that is an erroneous cut and paste job from the intermediate rules?! I do wish people would check this stuff properly first....

Doesn't change the fact that the intermediate rule change will probably stop a lot of RCs fielding teams.

 

[LEC]

If RC ran a well run series of events rather than one event a year for areas then I would consider doing it but as they do not I affiliate to BE. There was nothing wrong with the old rule.

Saying you have to choose and play a canny game is ridiculous as I cannot be bothered to play a political game for one area qualifier that you still may not qualify for the final on!

While I am on the subject Area 12 is huge and yet only 2 people qualify as individuals which seems a bit unfair in each section.

 

[SpottedCat]

[ QUOTE ]
I think my area is so hot to quailify................ if you want to do well at RC you have to play canny game.

And so as a rider you have to pick your affilialation to BE or BRC and work within either rules...........

[/ QUOTE ]

It's not easy in my area either - but I don't see what BRC are trying to achieve by stopping people who've gone novice but have no points from doing intermediate. As I say, BE don't stop me going PN, and it wasn't exactly a great advantage to me last year as I didn't exactly sweep the board and do brilliantly, I came 4th, so a long way off qualifying!!

As for the 'poor relation' issue, sadly I feel like BRC are bringing that on themselves - I would have had great fun riding as part of a team - they have made the horse ineligible so TBH I just won't bother in future as I'd rather spend my money BE as an individual where I can do PN or Novice (or intermediate I suppose as horse and rider are qualified!) as I see fit. It is a shame, but I do RC as a fun diversion and a chance to do team stuff which I can't do BE. If he had points then fair enough, but as it is, we just are not consistent enough to even qualify IMO at BRC intermediate level, let alone Open, so as an individual it's a bit pointless doing it.

I thought it worked fine last year and will be interested to see if this means team entries at Intermediate are down from last year. Hopefully I'll be wrong and it won't make any difference, but I have a feeling RCs will struggle to field teams now at intermediate in the same way that a lot have struggled in the past to field an open team.

 

[kick_On]

lec - that problem with big Area - if you want to quailifer you do have to forward plan and typing as ex chef, i had my scouting of my riders in winter and asked about their plans etc... psssssssss canny game is NOT politics BUT playing within the RULES you'll do that at BE or any other event. Why not put your best riders up for teams. When i did chefing was NOT into and fought against 'Crash and BURN' teams so pick best rider and worked around THEIR plans

SC- i'm sorry i don't think RC Eventing is the 'poor relation' issue, As most folks are doing BE and standard of riding IMO is very, very good at these event and so if you quailify for championship. You do stand a good chance of being place coming from such a HOT area.
I don't think RC chefs will stuggle to be able to field good quaility teams (my club is fielding 2 novice, 2 interm and some open riders), poor chefs or disorganise one may..................

 

[ColouredFan]

I am glad the rules in the mag seem to be a typo, I have deliberatly tried to stay under 20 points before the RC open qualifier in June, when I read that it was for people with 0-5 points I was very annoyed!

We have two people in our RC who are capable of open but we are short of enough people who are capable enough so we can make a team.

 

[kick_On]

i'll hope see you out and about at areas, are you feeling better from op???

yeah rule states:
No more than two ponies/horses with between 21 & 60 BE/EI points may be entered, however, they will each incur 1 penalty for every BE/EI point over 20 points.

 

[SpottedCat]

[ QUOTE ]


SC- i'm sorry i don't think RC Eventing is the 'poor relation' issue, As most folks are doing BE and standard of riding IMO is very, very good at these event and so if you quailify for championship. You do stand a good chance of being place coming from such a HOT area.
I don't think RC chefs will stuggle to be able to field good quaility teams (my club is fielding 2 novice, 2 interm and some open riders), poor chefs or disorganise one may..................

[/ QUOTE ]

Think you'll find it wasn't me who said that! I was merely picking up on someone else's point...personally I agree the standard is high, which is why I don't think the rule change to exclude anyone whose horse has been Novice this year was necessary - all that does is imply that the standard at BRC is lower than that found at BE because at BE if my horse has been novice but has no points, he is still allowed to compete at the equivalent of BRC intermediate, if you see what I mean.

 

[ecrozier]

God now I am confused!! I have one rider in my inter team whose horse has done 3 novices several years ago but no points....thats still ok for inter isn't it?
And the bit about PN placings occur same points as N for BRC rules....so those of my inter team who have placed at PN in the past will get penalised? Or is that just for novice?! In which case my one rider in my novice team who came 10th in a PN, in 2005, will she has a penalty?!?!
SOOOO confused!

 

[LEC]

We struggled to make up one team for novice and one team for intermediate. If it was not for SC and I we would not have had a team at intermediate hence why this rule blows us out of the water. As for team selection there is none. Anyone who wants to do it can. We have 235 members yet out of those only 9 who want to compete at horse trials!

 

[SpruceRI]

We have a similar number of members to you lec, and are in Area 10 which is also massive and hotly contested.

We can always find plenty of people to do Novices as we have a lot of people who don't do BE because they can't afford it and/or have the time.

Most of the people who compete in the Intermediate and Open sections already do BE, usually to the same level as the Qualifier.

I believe we've got 3 or 4 Novice Teams keen to do the qualifier, one Intermediate and might just scrape an Open, though now I'm totally confused about the eligibility for Intermediates and Opens.... this could blow us out of the water too

 

[kick_On]

Sounds like you need to kick some butt in your RC, i'm so surprised at your figures!!!. Very sad you didn't get to read or get sent rules by your CdE, these rules as they have been up on website since jan!!

As i've said earlier so long as you haven't done a Novice BE in 2009 before your quailfier, you can still do intermediate, which surely this apples to you and SC? and if i was your CdE i would have asked you what you wanted do about new rule to go for intermediate or go for Open and get some runs in at BE novice, eps knowing how limited membership is........... shame