BRC Eligibility for Eventing

[Zebedee]

Please see my post above which may make things a little clearer !!

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God now I am confused!! I have one rider in my inter team whose horse has done 3 novices several years ago but no points....thats still ok for inter isn't it?

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Yes

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And the bit about PN placings occur same points as N for BRC rules....so those of my inter team who have placed at PN in the past will get penalised? Or is that just for novice?!


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Yep...just for the novice !!

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SOOOO confused!

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If anyone is confused about any aspect of BRC please contact your area rep, who should be able to help !!

 

[SpottedCat]

Nope, loaner will be taking the horse to a novice at the end of May, so unless something goes badly wrong and she does not complete, there will be no more RC eventing for me as I just cannot see us pulling together an open team next year either, and I am only in it for the team stuff really.

 

[LEC]

I am on a pretty amazing jumper so have my eyes on achieving a few dreams this year so RC will go out of the window might do the open but would have been nice to be in a team.

As for our RC it is what it is. If people do not want to compete its up to them. Frankly I would rather have it this way than a few old bossy women on a commitee trying to get me to do things I was not interested in and thinking they are better than they are. BTW I am on our RC commitee!

 

[kick_On]

shame......................

If it was me i'd do as individual, as it runs over BE courses, cheaper to enter than BE, plus if you quailfy you get extra comp within season and with seniors it's the long format

 

[SpottedCat]

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shame......................

If it was me i'd do as individual, as it runs over BE courses, cheaper to enter than BE, plus if you quailfy you get extra comp within season and with seniors it's the long format

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If I'm honest that is part of what puts me off - the amount of work I'd have to put in to get him fit enough to do long format at Novice level, around working full time and really having aims beyond Novice BE means it probably isn't worth it for me to even try and qualify as an individual. I love doing team stuff, but the individual stuff doesn't really do it for me - he doesn't need the extra runs over an easy novice level track unless I am seriously trying to qualify. I don't think we'd manage to qualify as an individual, but I'd be willing to give it a crack as part of a team.

His legs only have so many jumps in them as people are so fond of saying - for me it just isn't worth it using some of them up at RC unless I can be part of a team. C'est la vie, I am sure lots of people are much happier with it this way.

 

[Zebedee]

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While I am on the subject Area 12 is huge and yet only 2 people qualify as individuals which seems a bit unfair in each section.

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Numbers to qualify are based on the entries to the area qualifers. We also have to bear in mind just how many starters we can accommodate at the championships (this reasonong applies to all BRC champs not just horse trials by the way.) The number of individual qualifers is dependent on the number of arena's, which in turn has to be worked out on the maximum number of tests one person can be expected to judge.
Area 12 is always very well represented at all BRC champs, & given that all the places on offer for the championships are always pretty well filled I'd say the the majority of BRC members still value the opportunity to come & compete at them.

 

[kick_On]

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C'est la vie, I am sure lots of people are much happier with it this way.

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?????????????


Anyway i know what you mean about runs and legs, but i would love to quailify and if i did i would defo drop a BE, as with my club they pay for my entry and stabling, but i'll pay for diesel and me. So a long format 3D, yes please, as love to do Aldon at end of season and it would be grand training

 

[Zebedee]

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C'est la vie, I am sure lots of people are much happier with it this way.

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?????????????


Anyway i know what you mean about runs and legs, but i would love to quailify and if i did i would defo drop a BE, as with my club they pay for my entry and stabling, but i'll pay for diesel and me. So a long format 3D, yes please, as love to do Aldon at end of season and it would be grand training

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Rider feedback says that a huge majority agree with you K.O.

It would be a hell of a lot less work for all concerned to run the champs as a short format competition, but while the majority of members want their championships to run over the long format that's what'll happen

 

[SpottedCat]

I just mean I am sure lots of people think it is better to not allow horses which have done Novice BE to do intermediate RC. If I was aiming at PN3D then I'd think it was great training too, but I'm not, I'm looking more at the CIC/CCI* and intermediate side of things in the long run (probably not this year), so it doesn't appeal to me as much.

 

[kick_On]

i think your missing a trick here SC, as i think B would do very well as 3D at Open (Novice BE) surely that would be ideal training for B.

But if we all aimed at the same comps there would be even more balloting at BE!!!

Zeb- thank god,

 

[Zebedee]

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I just mean I am sure lots of people think it is better to not allow horses which have done Novice BE to do intermediate RC.

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It's more to stop horses which are currently competing at BE novice level, than those who used to. It was decided to allow up to five BE points (& the corresponding penalties) in to the intermediate competition as it was becoming apparent that the zero points ruling was barring some of the very members that the competition was brought in to being to cater for.

I'll also remind everyone again as I did earlier that eligibility is at close of preliminary entry (21 days prior to area qualifier), so any points,or runs at a higher level gained after that don't count.

 

[SpottedCat]

Like I say Zebedee, I think it'll stop a lot of people fielding intermediate teams who otherwise would - we are far from competitive at BE Novice level but the person who won my section at Areas last year has so far this year ridden in several intermediates BE and been placed in the top ten in three of them including a third...but the horse she did areas on still hasn't been past PN so will be eligible for Areas again - I don't quite understand how she is the 'target market' for intermediate whereas I am not despite the fact that I am not competitive at BE Novice at all, have no points whatsoever and yet am not considered someone who it is catering for, simply, presumably, because I only have the one horse to play with?!

He'll go novice with someone else before the close of prelim entries so despite me not having sat on him for over six months we won't be eligible.

 

[SpottedCat]

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i think your missing a trick here SC, as i think B would do very well as 3D at Open (Novice BE) surely that would be ideal training for B.

But if we all aimed at the same comps there would be even more balloting at BE!!!

Zeb- thank god,

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I just don't think we'd be competitive enough to qualify having seen last years entries, and therefore would rather run over more difficult tracks as I only have a limited number of runs each year. B would love to do a 3 day, and in fact may do long format N2D this year at Aldon if things go really well - but there is no way he will be competitive at RC areas IMO. We'd need much better dressage and a crack at a clear SJ and it is obvious from his record that I do not ride well enough to go clear SJ at that level just yet. So why bother? I can aim for getting points BE at least! If we could field a team at Open then yes, I'd go for it, but as an individual I don't feel it is worth the run sadly.

 

[kick_On]

But you are target market.......................... but you have decided to run your horse at higher level............. which therefore puts you in top competetion, which as you have said you are aiming for and higher than Rc Open????????????

And their are limits on riders aswell, which is only fair. But look at BE you can be against world class riders aswell in lower level on their baby horses, so i think Rc have got it right really.


If in lower class one could suggest you of pot hunting

BUT you can chuck this one at me aswell cos i'm only wanting to do novice rc

This why the standard is so high, as it a very poplar comp to quailify for and CdE are canny with their riders and horses!!!!

 

[Zebedee]

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Like I say Zebedee, I think it'll stop a lot of people fielding intermediate teams who otherwise would - we are far from competitive at BE Novice level but the person who won my section at Areas last year has so far this year ridden in several intermediates BE and been placed in the top ten in three of them including a third...but the horse she did areas on still hasn't been past PN so will be eligible for Areas again - I don't quite understand how she is the 'target market' for intermediate whereas I am not despite the fact that I am not competitive at BE Novice at all, have no points whatsoever and yet am not considered someone who it is catering for, simply, presumably, because I only have the one horse to play with?!

He'll go novice with someone else before the close of prelim entries so despite me not having sat on him for over six months we won't be eligible.

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With the best will in the world it is impossible to cater for every individual circumstance within the rules, & there will always be those who, in the attempt to make things as fair as possible actually end up being penalised, as it would appear has happened to you.

BRC rules do not get changed on whims, but in response to rider feedback. All suggestions are throughly investigated for practicality, & most importantly for their fairness when applied across the membership of 34,000+.
As someone has already suggested if the horse is capable of BRC Open / BE novice thats the level it should be entered at. I'm sure there can't be that many BRC members who have a rider to compete their horse at a higher level than they themselves wish to compete at, & who would still expect to ride said horse at BRC comps to be honest. I myself have someone that competes a horse at dressage for me, at a far higher level than I could, but I wouldn't expect to be able to have the horse back to compete at a lower level in a BRC comp if that makes sense?
As for the person who is competing at BE Intermediate, but has a horse she keeps at PN level for BRC champs, she's in a minority too !! The majority of BRC members competing at BRC Intermediate are one horse owners, who own the horses they are competing on.
As for entries being affected, well if they are (& I have to be honest & say that I think any effect will be negligible) this will be balanced by the 5 point allowance, which will allow those riders who have purchased a horse with a few points, but who aren't comfortable at BRC Open/ BE Novice level to enter the field.
Don't take the above as any kind of a dig by the way.......I am not being crititcal of you in anyway, just trying to explain the thinking behind the rule change. If BRC get loads of feedback from unhappy members that indicate that they've got things wrong then the situation will be reassessed for 2010.

 

[SpottedCat]

I'm not taking it personally, don't worry - and if I was interested in competing as an individual then sure I'd do open and not worry about it. But I'm not and there is no way our RC can field an open team - or we couldn't last year, and the only way we managed to field an intermediate team was by having two riders who'd ridden, but not got any points or placings at BE Novice, in the team. I was just pondering that as we have one of the biggest RC memberships in the country, and we are struggling, whether it would mean that the number of intermediate teams fielded would go down.

Maybe you're right and it will make no difference at all, I hope that's the case, but only time will tell I guess. I wasn't really making the point because I am desperate to compete at Areas, I'm not really, I enjoyed the team stuff but for me it's not the be all and end all or a particularly important goal - that's not to belittle it for those who do have it as a goal, just it doesn't feature very highly on my radar beyond me enjoying being on a team. As I can't be, I'll find something else to do instead! It really was because I genuinely think RCs will now struggle to field intermediate teams, and as I say, I hope my experience is the minority not the rule and I am wrong.

 

[kick_On]

nar, sorry SC i disagree abouts RC clubs will struggle to find intermediate teams - i as in my area most clubs get one or even 2 intermediate teams, it's open where most Rc will struggle.
As most horses and riders at this level will be heading off in the height of BE and could think 'wrongly' IMO that's it only RC!! and Forget how good this comp is for horse and rider as at seniors it is run as the long format (roads and track and good old fashion steeplechase

)

I am really shocked if you do come from huge membership that you are unable to field even one intermediate team

But good luck when you get B back

 

[SpottedCat]

Last year the only way we could do it was by having two of us who'd done Novice BE - out of a membership of over 200 only 9 expressed any interest in doing horse trials this year.

 

[kick_On]

i know you said that before!!!

Can't you do your own team finding, i would if it was me....... Have a chat at rallies etc....... as i'm always surprized that most riders 'down' their own riding, when really they're very good

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This is in past how i've managed to do team and get flooded with riders and horses

then have to hold selection sessions

 

[SpottedCat]

That was the way we scraped two more people together for the intermediate team last year TBH, so no! And one of those fell off in a ditch and did not finish the XC (but was mighty chuffed to get a team rosette for the team finishing sixth!). Honestly, there simply is not the rider or horse power in our RC - lec and I usually have lessons together as we lack people of a similar standard. I'm not being down on other people at all, I'd jump at the chance of seeing people of a similar standard - but as you say, they tend not to join RC.

Our RC has a 'no selection' policy - if you want to do it, you're in, which is fair and inclusive the way RC is meant to be I feel.

I'm not being obstructive, I just honestly do not think we can pull together an intermediate team let alone an open one.

 

[kick_On]

mmmmmmmmmm...........

couples years ago the club i'm was in was in a sort of similar postion, but now there's defo new breed of BE/RC riders coming through in area.

I don't know whether it's BE getting riders interested, combined with in our area using very good instructors (at good prices aswell) and encouraging rc riders to go for BE and proving Yes their are good enough.......

In glos we are lucky as we do have so many high level events badders, gatcombe, hartpury list goes on and they always wanted local rc to help so maybe that's also sparked interest.......

I think sometimes a 'little boot' in right direction of committee does wonders , but you do have to tend to put yourself into mix............ 'and put your money where your mouth is'

and then that's another thing to do!

 

[LEC]

I have attended committee meetings and lessons are very well attended but nobody wants to jump above 1m or move beyond Novice Dressage. SC and I are in the minority.

Frankly your RC would make me crazy as I hate being told what to do and when I have to do it. RC for me is a small diversion where I very occassionally attend lessons but mainly have joined for all the discounts at saddlerys, events and BSJA.

 

[1071helen]

I have just picked up on this as have just realised the rules stated in our Area qualifier schedule are competely different to 2008 and having asked BRC they have quoted eligibility for 2009 as something different again but more like the 2008 rule.
I will keep trying to get clarifiaction as at the moment I'm not sure who is right .... and as you have all pointed out it is quite critical to having eligible teams!

 

[kick_On]

pm Zeb - promise you very good source

lec [ QUOTE ]
Frankly your RC would make me crazy as I hate being told what to do and when I have to do it. RC for me is a small diversion where I very occassionally attend lessons but mainly have joined for all the discounts at saddlerys, events and BSJA.

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Again wierd???????? as i'm very much an independant soul within Rc (i defo not a sheep in life!!

), BUT if you're doing teams IMO you do have to play the team game, which does training and encourging. Then that's probably why when you do win in our areas and go forward to championship you'll end up in the placing!!!

 

[ihatework]

I can see the argument from both sides to be honest.

I can see why it is odd the BRC eligibility doesn't really tally up with BE eligibility for Intermediate teams. For example SC's horse is eligible to compete BE Pre-Novice yet isn't eligible to compete the equivalent at BRC.

I wouldn't consider SC to be pot-hunting wanting to do Intermediate rather than Open, you just have to look at record to see that even PN results are average.

That said BRC can't make rules for every eventuality and on the whole they are fair and transparent, and yes I do agree that a lot of people in BRC play a very good game to stay eligible and some of these are more pot hunterish than SC's situation, but the game is open for all to be played.

The way I see it SC has a few options: Don't bother with BRC, join a new RC that can field competative teams, or just lump it in a non-competative RC and slot into teams when possible.

If you want to join a competative riding club then there is usually a reason for the club being competative - namely a hell of a lot of hard work and man hours behind the scenes. Don't expect to swan into such a club and not have to give a bit back, there will be some sort of selection, training days, requirement for help in RC and IMO that is only fair for what you get out of it. If that isn't your scene then just stick to affiliated where you pay your load of money, compete and come home.