Breeding. Big stallion to a small mare?

Enfys

Enfys

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I was talking to someone yesterday and the conversation came around to breeding. This chap offered me the use of his APHA stallion for my 14h, very fine arab mare, now, I've seen this stallion he is 16h and basically built like a brick outhouse. I am NOT even considering it.

So, would you:

a) Put a small mare to this giant of a horse?

and

b) Consider it seriously unwise/dangerous to breed any type of horse with that sort of difference in size? (Big stallion, small mare I mean)
 
It wouldn't be the smartest thing to do, could cause complications at birth. The other way round fine, and extremely funny watching a very small stallion trying his luck with a big mare!!!
 
I was just thinking that
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I have heard of smaller stallions actually positioning themselves uphill of a big mare!
 
I used to work on a stud farm and we would put out little stallion in the horsebox and put the mare at the bottom and let him run down. He would get on her back and his little legs would be dangling!!!
 
There was a question about this in one the horsey mags a few months ago. Somone had Shetland in foal to a big horse (forget the breed) and were wondering whether they should have the foal aborted. The answer was that the mare's womb size will regulate the size of the foal so it would be fine.
 
Height difference is usually little problem if the mare has a good pelvic area. Substance difference such as you describe is what will cause problems

I wouldn't

However if you want to breed up in height from your arab mare then 14hh to 16hh to get a 15hh is not or should not be a problem if you picked the right stallion.

Ideally you should look for a sports horse type that is for example say half TB and half whatever with good bone and conformation but not heavy

I've bred several times from small mares to big stallions but only because the mares are a: native and therefore less likely to be prone to foaling problems, B: have very good pelvic structure and foal room and c: always considered the 'bulk' of the stallion concerned.
 
My two 13.2 NF mares are in-faol to a 16hh WB. but this was AI and both mares are very wide being NF.

I would put your mare to that stallion if i knew she had been checked over by a vet, theres no reason not to. My friend put her 11.2 mare to her 15hh stallion quite a few times with no problems.
 
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There was a question about this in one the horsey mags a few months ago. Somone had Shetland in foal to a big horse (forget the breed) and were wondering whether they should have the foal aborted. The answer was that the mare's womb size will regulate the size of the foal so it would be fine.

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Yes thats right, its like my mums old dog (a corgie) got in pup, by total accident by a HUGE labrador. She had no problems giving birth to 4 healthy Corgidors!!!
 
As a rule the female of any species regulates the size of the fetus and most never grow too big to be given birth to. Obviously there is the exception and I def wouldn't go for an extremly big sire and small mare but wouldn't have a problem with the sizes you are mentioning.
 
Oh I would never consider it!
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I am not a breeding expert in any way but I would imagine it is just common sense
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I posted on here awhile ago about my shock of hearing a man who wanted to bread an underweight 2 yr old Shetland mare to a Haflinger
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seems wrong

but then again I weighed 115lbs and my daughters father was a GIANT! I had an almost 10 lb baby and I lived
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I dare say I had a hell of alot of medical intervention though to do it naturally!
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The size of the stallion would not have an effect on whether your mare had problems at foaling as she will govern the size of her foal. In other species such as dogs and cattle the sire has a bearing, but this is not the case in horses.
 
When I first joined this forum there was a member who's Section A had a surprise foal which turned out to be from the Warmblood in the next field. (I think it was a warmblood).

The foal was bigger than it's dam by a few months old. Something tells me the mare was Amber...but I might be wrong.
 
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The size of the stallion would not have an effect on whether your mare had problems at foaling as she will govern the size of her foal. In other species such as dogs and cattle the sire has a bearing, but this is not the case in horses.

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but a shetland to a Haflinger
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I have a feeling that it could very well result in a tragedy. I have to admit this is the first time I have ever heard this. As I said though, I am no horse breeder.

Anyone else heard of this as fact?
 
All i know, and have been told by professional horse breeders, is that the size of the sire does not matter. Like previous people have said the foal will only grow to the size of that the mare can cope with.

I bet the covering was a bit uncomfortable for the Shetland though
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Yup its the covering thats usually the problem. I put my 14.2 mini TB type to a 16.1 but he was a very fine TB and we had no issues, though for a first foal I was told Ginge was a big un!

We nearly cried though as one v v v old fashioned horse bloke (I did NOT like his methods) brought a 13.2 mare to be put in foal to stop her growing (I think she was rising 3) and wanted to use the bigger TB - now he was 16.2 and a hefty chap for a TB, chunky and powerful like an old fashioned Irish chaser type and ahem *big*.

We didn't want to use him, thought he should have used the other (Asti's Dad), who was the finer one and more reasonable... but he insisted. It was a VERY difficult covering, she really struggled to stand and take his weight, and tore quite a bit. Poor thing.

So whilst carrying the foal isn't a problem - a natural covering is sometimes too hard.
 
My itty-bitty maiden mare's (<14 HH at the time) baby-daddy was a 16+ HH Quarter heel-horse. (love child obviously) Consulted with the vet about aborting it but his considered opinion was that it would probably be just fine. It was (very quick easy labor). But the poor lil foal walked on her hocks for almost a day cause she was so smished up in there that her legs didn't properly straighten up for about 18 hours.
 
It isn't the foaling complications you need to worry about it's the covering difficulties!
We only ever covered two what we would call pony mares, one 14 hh another a little bigger. The first mare was just so slight he nearly squashed her, but managed to get her in foal. That foal grew to a middleweight 15.2 hh out of in all honesty a runt of a mare..
The next mare suddenly moved sideway when being covered (we only ever had two of us to hold them, one handling the stallion, one the mare) and suffered a tear in her vagina. We stopped and called the vet as it was obvious it was more than the little injuries you sometimes see, but she ended up with peritonitis and nearly died.
After that we never covered less than 15 hh again. I have to say our old stallion was an enormous
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boy, this one is around a quarter the size being more Tb, but I agree with you, I would go for something a bit smaller I think for your mare.
 
One of our little pregnant mare's is 12.2hh and she has been bred to my APHA stallion who is 15hh by natural cover in a pasture-bred situation.

As already said, the foetus never grows beyond the size of the Mother's womb in most circumstances therefore the size of the sire is irrelevant. It is only once the foal emerges that it takes up the attributes of both parents.

Your little mare should be absolutely fine to be bred to this stallion.

As to Jade's query; the mare you were talking about is a miniature shetland, which is really an almost different species and would be very risky if it was bred to the Haflinger.
 
It isn't a problem as the foetus is small enough to pass through without problems. As already said, the foetus will only grow to the size available to it ie. the womb. The only problems which occur can be that the stallion's little man may be too big for the mare and rupture her.
 
The stud I help out at had a 13.2 mare put into foal by a 15 hh stallion last year, the mare had a very difficult birth, it was hit or miss whether both mare and foal would make it for a bit. Needless to say, the owner isn't going to put a litlle mare in with a big stallion again. The pic's tiny, but you can see foal caught up with mum's hight very fast!
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Well personally if it was me and one of my broodmares had a difficult foaling then I would be seriously concerned about ever putting her in foal again. She obviously isn't cut out for the job.
 
She's bred foals from a smaller stallion before without any problems & her owner thinks she'll be fine with next year's foal (13.2 sire). But I have to say I'm tempted to agree with you, if it was my own I certainly wouldn't want to risk it.
 
Yes there is something not right with that, but those sorts of things rarely come about because of the size of the stallion, more genetic or formation issues. Some foals are perfect, some aren't.....that's just the risk we all take with breeding any mare.

It's really no different from humans mating; some people are large, some are small, doesn't make any difference to the baby until it comes out.
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that is a very good point. I spoke of my issue with birth. I have a much better example however. OH's mother is a tiny tiny woman. about 5'1 and 95 lbs soaking wet! Her husband was an ENORMOUS man. She had no problems delivering. She was a mother of 4 as well
 
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