Breeding for the first time

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Patterdale

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Hi!
I am planning to breed from my darling doggy next time she comes into heat, however it is the first time I will have done this! In need of dome tips if poss please!
I have found a nice dog but it's quite far away so will have to travel her to it - does this affect things? Also do you just get them mated once or more than once in the heat? And when's the best time? Sorry tmi!!
Also I didn't note down her last season, but it was quite a while ago. The dog has just turned 3 - is this too late for a first litter? Some people have said to me that it is although I didn't think so...?
Finally, the bitch is a very playful terrier (clue in my name!). If she does take, will I need to stop her playing and wrestling with the other dogs? We have a few although the others are working sheepdogs. They all free range around the farm and are always playing rough. Would I need to keep her in more or do they look after themselves?

Thank you and sorry for the long post! :)
 
And the problem is......? Everyone has to breed for the first time sometime. I am asking for tips, not snide comments. If it's not something you know much about, how else do you learn other than by doing it and getting as much help as possible along the way?
So again - the problem is...?
 
The problem is this...
Unless you are breeding your bitch for a bl**dy good reason (IE stunning example of breed, working dog with good background and therefore in demand) you will be adding yet more dogs to a country riddled with unwanted dogs.
Then factor in that you appear not to know what you are doing and have done little to no research which has seen you end up on an internet forum asking advise........disaster waiting to happen.
Puppies are not easy, and they cost money.....which if you do things by the book, you might not even make back!
 
Cedars LOL


Patterdale, you sound like a genuine person with a real query. However, this is a very emotive subject in this forum, hence Cedars bracing - I actually had the same reaction. Sorry, I haven't got anything useful to tell you but just thought I'd warn you that it could get erm...interesting....on this thread. ;)
 
Hi, I would just like to know why you want to breed your girl, the reason I ask is that rescues are overflowing with dogs and a lot of people on this forum are involved with rescue. Im not against responsible breeding and I hope to do it myself one day but I have a vunerable breed KC bitch and who is fully health and DNA tested.

I dont have a problem with working breeds like yours but would suggest that even before you mate your dog you have a list of people wanting puppies otherwise you could end up with a lot unsold which would be another added burden to rescues. Also responsible breeders offer back up to dogs sold ie if they have to come back for any reason, could you cope with this?

Sorry to sound negative but these are all things to consider and if you can insure these measures are in place you will get help on this forum.
 
OP, to get a positive reponse I would recomend you clarify a few things asap

1. Has your dog got a good working/showing history?
2. Has it had ALL the health checks recommended for its breed (hips/elbows/eyes etc)
3. Have you ALREADY got homes for all the pups that she may have and are you prepared to back them up for life if for any new homes cannot keep them?
4. Is the dog registered?
5. Does the dog you have selected as a mate also have all of the above?



If you can respond yes to all of them, you will find this board very helpful. It is very very very pro responsible breeding. Not anti breeding, there are few members with pups at the moment.
 
galaxy said:
OP, to get a positive reponse I would recomend you clarify a few things asap

1. Has your dog got a good working/showing history?
2. Has it had ALL the health checks recommended for its breed (hips/elbows/eyes etc)
3. Have you ALREADY got homes for all the pups that she may have and are you prepared to back them up for life if for any new homes cannot keep them?
4. Is the dog registered?
5. Does the dog you have selected as a mate also have all of the above?



If you can respond yes to all of them, you will find this board very helpful. It is very very very pro responsible breeding. Not anti breeding, there are few members with pups at the moment.
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OP - I would take heed of this post^^
 
if you've had all the testing done and are going about this for the best reasons - then the owner of the stud dog should be able to answer all your questions. As would anyone I suspect from the breed club or KC. The fact you are asking on here makes me wonder if you have? So if you haven't already, get along to a local show a meet some responsible breeders, talk to people in the know and then assess if it's the best decision or not. If you do go ahead I recommend buying The Book Of The Bitch.
 
Not everyone has to breed for the first time, infact some don't breed at all:p *polished halo*:D
I would say if you have homes lined up and if you can take each and every puppy back at any stage in life should they become an issue (esp if you rehome them to pet homes) patterdales are a handful after all, and as cute as they are as babies that wears off and when problems start you need to make sure the purchasers are aware they need to return the dog directly to you, this will then stop them ending up in the nearest rescue or god forbid (gum tree/pre loved) even if you have to offer up a (part money back) in regard to age they are returned to encourage people to bring them directly to you.

I mentioned this because above you mention alot of pregnancy/mating queries but have you thought of the other important factors (such as the above)?:)
Then it's your call and indeed best to get as much info as possible before you go ahead inc possible vet fees c sections costs (so a continjency of at least £600 + for vet fees. for an emergency
Swabs, scans, health tests (not a vet check);) for the bitch (which ever she requires and of course the dog)
I think there is a (how much my litter cost so far post) on here so def get an insight into costs.
3 is not to old, play would be fine until the mid to late stages where I would not want her haring about if she is very hyper but up to the individual, she may settle herself a little when she is far on.
You may 2 need to visits to the stud.
On the other hand as suggested unless there is a real good reason to breed and it's not just for the sake of having a litter then I would not breed :)
I take it you want one for yourself?
 
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I can answer none of the practical questions but did want to say have no problem in the responsbile breeding of non pedigree good working terriers (most proper working terriers would be nothing to do with a breed or KC group). My experience of proper workers is there will be no health testing history etc as dogs are bred on ablity to work rather than looks etc so a good sire would probably not have the tests you would expect/require of a KC dog but this wouldnt particularly worry me.

But if you are considering breeding workers you should already have a strong link within the local community as people who correctly work terriers are usually quite a close knit community so they should be able to assist and will be you main place for finding the correct homes as alot dont do well as pets.
 
The bitch is a very good example of her breed and has a good show record.

She has had all relevant health checks.

I have 12 confirmed homes so however many she has they are all spoken for.

I agree with you about rescue centres but not everybody wants a rescue dog.

I have taken the time to find a suitable dog and as I have stated am prepared to travel to ensure breeding only to what I consider is the right dog.


I am doing all the research I can BEFORE breeding.
 
Sent too soon - as stated I am doing research before breeding, not simply 'going on a forum' ad one person suggested. I merely thought that this could bf one avenue where I would get some helpful/constructive advice. Kind of wish I hadn't bothered now - some of you have just made me out to be stupid.
 
patterdale said:
Sent too soon - as stated I am doing research before breeding, not simply 'going on a forum' ad one person suggested. I merely thought that this could bf one avenue where I would get some helpful/constructive advice. Kind of wish I hadn't bothered now - some of you have just made me out to be stupid.
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I think you have been given some very good advice:confused:
 
patterdale said:
The bitch is a very good example of her breed and has a good show record.

She has had all relevant health checks.

I have 12 confirmed homes so however many she has they are all spoken for.

I agree with you about rescue centres but not everybody wants a rescue dog.

I have taken the time to find a suitable dog and as I have stated am prepared to travel to ensure breeding only to what I consider is the right dog.


I am doing all the research I can BEFORE breeding.
Click to expand...

patterdale said:
Sent too soon - as stated I am doing research before breeding, not simply 'going on a forum' ad one person suggested. I merely thought that this could bf one avenue where I would get some helpful/constructive advice. Kind of wish I hadn't bothered now - some of you have just made me out to be stupid.
Click to expand...

Noone had any intention of making you feel stupid I am sure. It is just that there are a lot of people breeding having done no research as to how to be responsible and sometimes keeping their bitch and pups in very bad conditions (recent post!). So people get very uptight when people come on saying they are breeding and will try and put them off if they have not done all the relevent leg work.... which you have! :) So I am sure you will get all the help and support you need :) :)
 
patterdale said:
The bitch is a very good example of her breed and has a good show record.

She has had all relevant health checks.

I have 12 confirmed homes so however many she has they are all spoken for.

I agree with you about rescue centres but not everybody wants a rescue dog.

I have taken the time to find a suitable dog and as I have stated am prepared to travel to ensure breeding only to what I consider is the right dog.


I am doing all the research I can BEFORE breeding.
Click to expand...


In regard to your comment of "not everyone wants a rescuedog" is absoloutely true, im not sure where anyone wrote otherwise, the comments where in reagrd to "the rescues are overflowing" (not my comments) mind you but a very prevalent point as in "make sure your pups don't end up as one of those statistics", as in if you breed 12, then make sure you can take 12 back at any stage in their lifes. That was all.

Surely you want to hear all of that good advice aswell as just the mating/breeding, it's all part and parcel of responsible breeding.
You say health check, do you mean TESTS?
I also did answer your few questions:)

Im sure some patterdale folk will be along soon enough to advise more.
 
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From some - as stated. But not from certain others. Also many replies were posted while I was still typing.
Kind of feel like I've been picked on for asking for tips by some, can't quote as I'm on my phone but if you read back you will see what I mean.
Just because I want to breed a planned litter from my healthy dog does not make me some kind of idiot. Plenty of people do it WITHOUT seeking all the advice they can first, and just whatever stud lives next door. I'm not doing this but have still had what I feel are some quite unkind comments.

I would however like to thank all those who have given kind advice - for this I am very grateful.

But I don't think it would do some people any harm to re read what they have just posted and ask themselves if they have been a bit judgemental. I asked in good faith, but I wouldn't ask again!

In particular, I don't think anyone needed to 'brace themselves' :(

Thanks again for the kind replies :(
 
noone has tried to make you look stupid,people have offered advice - i did insinuate that if you done the research you wouldnt be asking on here... but i meant no offence, its just that being in the know with your breed wouldnt lead me to think HHO would be a first port of call. Back to my original response - can the stud dog owner not advise you? I agree with you that not everyone wants a rescue and reiterate my advice about the book,it really is a bible. I got it when we were planning on breeding one of my bitches but after a couple of years in the planning we discovered she was deaf so she was speyed, we were gutted.
 
Thanks very much for those replies whilst I was typing. :)

By health checks I mean she has been to the vet and had eyes etc all tested. I'm not aware of any breed specific tests for patterdales but if anyone knows any different then please correct me!

My husband is a farmer and he has had a few litters before but I want to find out about it all for myself :) so there is at least IMF of us who is not a novice! :)
 
patterdale said:
Thanks very much for those replies whilst I was typing. :)

By health checks I mean she has been to the vet and had eyes etc all tested. I'm not aware of any breed specific tests for patterdales but if anyone knows any different then please correct me!

My husband is a farmer and he has had a few litters before but I want to find out about it all for myself :) so there is at least IMF of us who is not a novice! :)
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did your vet do a DNA test for Primary Lens Luxation ? Good that your husband will be an experienced hand for whelping :)
 
OH is a livestock scanner too so at least the scanning will be free....! Btw what is the going rate for scanning a dog? We have no idea and just charge about £10 I think if they bring it to us or it's not too far, what have other people paid?
Off the subject a bit sorry!
 
Keeps sending too early....! Don't do many dogs it's mostly sheep and cattle and the odd pig/goat but I'd be quite keen to develop it if people wanted it....do people usually scan dogs, or just sometimes?
 
Are Patterdales not a KC recognised breed? Just went to look up health tests and couldn't find them?

(not a terrier person ;) )
 
galaxy said:
Are Patterdales not a KC recognised breed? Just went to look up health tests and couldn't find them?

(not a terrier person ;) )
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doesnt look like they are! I didnt know that either! OP what showing has your bitch done? I just assumed they were.... not that being KC recognised means anything lol, all mine are ISDS first and foremost, the KC bit of paper is just an extra:p
 
http://www.lancashireheelers.org/lancashire_heeler_health_eyes.php

This explains how PLL is tested and the condition, I know Ive copied it for my breed but it affects a lot of dogs, our bitch is a carrier so will have to be mated to a clear dog. The resulting pups will be clear or carrier but our breed regularly eye checks their dog. Because our breed is so small in numbers it is not possible to only breed clear to clear because it will just make the jene pool smaller and smaller.
 
No I dont think they are sadly! I think there's a certain number of years you have to be able to prove they have been in existence before KC will recognise a breed - could be wrong, this is just what I was told once. They are such lovely dogs though and mine is a total peach - notthe cleverest but so good natured and nice to have around. She never leaves my side! She's very strong and well put together and I wish they could be registered! As you have probably gathered I love the breed. Mine is smooth coated aswell which most people who see her like, the stud I've chosen is slightly rougher coated but not very, I'd like to keep the coat if I can.

Does anyone know anymore about the registering/KC status? I would be very interested!
 
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