Breeding for the first time

I've taken her to 2 terrier shows and she has won both times. Both at county shows and just for my entertainment really! ;) I always meant to do some agility with her as my old agility dog got run over :( but I moved when u got married and the nearest club is over an hour away so I've never gotten round to it!
 
patterdale said:
Thanks very much for those replies whilst I was typing. :)

By health checks I mean she has been to the vet and had eyes etc all tested. I'm not aware of any breed specific tests for patterdales but if anyone knows any different then please correct me!

My husband is a farmer and he has had a few litters before but I want to find out about it all for myself :) so there is at least IMF of us who is not a novice! :)
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Here goes with helpful advice! She should have a BVA eye specialist check for Primery Lens Luxation,so should the stud really.It is unlikely ,but Jack Russells are prone ..maybe Pats have a tiny dose of that in them,also check for patella luxation,again unlikely.My Pats never had any health problems,great dogs.To assess the "right day" there is a blood test called Premate,get it done alternate days from 10 days in season,it is very accurate,and saves disappointment. Also ,before mating up her vaccinations esp. parvo and leptospirosis..it will protect her litter .
If she has won well at terrier shows then whyever not breed from her?I guess your farmer husband has a firearm licence,so you can legally get them docked,only removing a third of the tail by the way!
She will need a nice comfy private bed to have her babies,we find a covered box of deep hay or straw is the best for these dogs.
Hope this is helpful to you..and good luck .:):)
 
galaxy said:
OP, to get a positive reponse I would recomend you clarify a few things asap

1. Has your dog got a good working/showing history?
2. Has it had ALL the health checks recommended for its breed (hips/elbows/eyes etc)
3. Have you ALREADY got homes for all the pups that she may have and are you prepared to back them up for life if for any new homes cannot keep them?
4. Is the dog registered?
5. Does the dog you have selected as a mate also have all of the above?



If you can respond yes to all of them, you will find this board very helpful. It is very very very pro responsible breeding. Not anti breeding, there are few members with pups at the moment.
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I had a yes to all these and still got slated,good luck OP!
 
Lol fruity

Thanks EK - he does have a firearm licence, but I'm not sure whether I will dock them. Most will go to pet/farm homes. Mine has her tail still and I think she likes it! She gets a good wag going ha! It's quite short naturally though bit the terriermen poke fun at her if she ever follows the hunt with me!
Thoughts on docking them? Another emotive subject no doubt! ;)
Where to have them was going to be another question. She lives outside in a converted pigsty in a big straw box with 2 other dogs. I was going to keep her there and move the collies out (and give it a good clean out) but would it be better to give her a new area of her own? Or do they prefer their own normal space?
Thanks for advice - going to look into that eye test too!
 
You have had some good advice, and the link to Vizslak's thread should give you some idea to the (frightening) cost of raising a litter. I currently have a litter of 6 GSD pups and this week alone have spent £62 on tattooing and £90 on microchipping, and have ordered my 3rd bag of fish4puppies food!
My bitch whelped in the house, in a room I cleared for her, with a whelping box and heat pad, but if your bitch is used to being outside a straw box as EK suggests is good. As long as the pig sty is warm and dry it would probably be okay, as long as you give it a thorough clean and as you say move other dogs. Also bear in mind you will possibly be spending nights out there with her whilst she is whelping, so needs to be reasonably comfortable for you to.
As already suggested I would recommend you get the Book of the Bitch and read that, it really is the breeders bible and should answer a lot of your questions.
Re scanning, I had my bitch done by someone who just scans dogs and she charged £16, she also does pre mate tests for £10, which is also something you would be advised to consider if you have a long journey to the dog.
 
Our border terriers and working lakies are moved into a caravan bedroom,lino floor and heat lamp if needed.My little border Lacey had her six puppies in there yesterday,once she was done she had a double thickness vetbed put in ,plus heat lamp ..but not right above the bed..as it is still quite chilly for newborns.Puppies do better if all their calories are used for growing,rather than keeping warm as well.The actual bed is a half plastic water barrel,one bit lower as a doorway.I can put a thick blanket over the top if needed should Mum find a heater too much.
Little terriers are almost always great little mums,but privacy is essential. To be honest I don`t scan these days,it is just another stress for the bitch..time will tell anyway,that is if it involves a journey of course.
Things start to go wrong if the event becomes a peep show,then bitches get agitated and mother poorly.I just keep a wary eye on proceedings in case she needs help,all breeds vary though,just talking about small teriers here.
You can gauge when whelping is imminent by temperature..it drops a couple or more degrees 24 hours before the event. Personally I found undocked pats very hard to sell,terrier boys would`nt consider them,and lots of mine went as working dogs.Must confess to preferring the "look" of a properly done tail myself.:)
 
Has the dog owner asked for a picture of her? It's just when I bred Scotties you would not get near the dog unless they had seen her first!
 
patterdale said:
The bitch is a very good example of her breed and has a good show record.

She has had all relevant health checks.

I have 12 confirmed homes so however many she has they are all spoken for.

I agree with you about rescue centres but not everybody wants a rescue dog.

I have taken the time to find a suitable dog and as I have stated am prepared to travel to ensure breeding only to what I consider is the right dog.


I am doing all the research I can BEFORE breeding.
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Sorry, don't mean to be snipey, but why don't you buy yourself a good book on breeding/whelping and educate yourself? I would rather die than post such a question. Now, that may say more about me than you, but seriously, breeding/whelping is not always easy. I am assuming you have good, working homes set up? Patterdales are not the easiest terriers and would prove tricky to your average owners.
 
patterdale said:
Keeps sending too early....! Don't do many dogs it's mostly sheep and cattle and the odd pig/goat but I'd be quite keen to develop it if people wanted it....do people usually scan dogs, or just sometimes?
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It's always useful to know how many you expect. If there is a problem whelping and you know more are to come then any delays in producing can reduce the risk of stillborn.
 
patterdale said:
I've taken her to 2 terrier shows and she has won both times. Both at county shows and just for my entertainment really! ;) I always meant to do some agility with her as my old agility dog got run over :( but I moved when u got married and the nearest club is over an hour away so I've never gotten round to it!
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The Patterdale is not recognised by the KC, so I am assuming you have shown her at a all singing and dancing Lurcher and Terrier show? Take it from me, some judges there wouldn't know decent conformation and movement from their elbow. Two wins does not make a decent dog.
 
I have a patterdale with a bad history of being passed around and months on the street. He is a real handful, and everyone I have met who has one has said what a handful they are and that the smooth coats are normally worse than the rough coats. Gumtree and preloved are full of them. I can't understand why you'd want to breed a dog so often passed on. We love our boy, and would never get rid but it seems that many don't feel the same. They really aren't for pet homes at all, it's not what they've evolved for. Many aren't great in farm homes either as they have a tendancy to 1) bog off and 2) worry livestock. I'd be worried you might end up taking a few back,or end up contributing to the rescue situation.
 
Have to smile blazingsaddles I wonder if kc judges are any better. Depends on the terrier show, almost all I have been to which have had a very knowledgeable judge and they are judging on proper working standards. Of course don't know what the shows the op went too. Kc means nothing for working dogs, for instance working lakies look nothing like their show namesakes thank goodness.

Some great advice from lots of posters esp EL. Good luck.
 
Blazing Saddles, yes that does sound snipey. If you would 'rather die' than ask questions about subjects you don't know much about, then yes that does say more about you than me.

Re posts about Patterdales in general, I have had a few and have always found them to be wonderful dogs. We had one that used to do a disappearing act but I think this can be true of any terrier. My current one is an angel with the most wonderful temperament which is one of the many reasons I'm choosing to breed from her. She is also a farm dog and doesn't chase stock but that's just her, they are all different I suppose!
As far as not breeding from her BECAUSE she is a Patterdale I'm not sure I agree. The market is also saturated with JRTs and yellow labs but perhaps this is just more reason to breed carefully and to selected homes as I am hopefully doing :)
I won't be advertising my pups anywhere as I have plenty of homes through word of mouth (she is a very popular little dog!).

I can think of plenty of breeds which have various problems associated with them. The problems some have attributed to Patterdales can also be said of many terriers, jack russells in particular perhaps? But there are plenty of people in the world who love them and want them.
It's personal preference.

I also believe that a lot if breeds are blamed for problems which are actually training issues. For instance, we would never have a dog that chased stock - because it would be trained correctly from the start - I hope!

The only problem with my little pet is that she is a bit yappy when people come onto the yard - but living in a pack of big sheepdogs, I put this down to 'small dog syndrome!' ;)
 
Also, to the people questioning why I don't just 'buy a book' and 'why am I asking on a forum' I think that if you simply read one book, or ask another breeder you are only having one persons view. As a horsey person I am well aware that with animals there is never just one right way of doing things, different people do things in different ways and there is rarely one definitive answer. To this end I thought that coming on a forum such as this I would get different advice etc from like minded people looking to help.
Thankfully this has been true of MOST.
But it is such a shame about the attitudes of some others. I don't think that I should be judged (as i have by some, can't quote as I'm on the phone - look back) for being responsible, doing my research and asking for help. I'm not sure that's fair and think it's a shame for the forum.

Again though, thanks to those who have offered advice! It has been great, particularly about the tests which I didn't know about, and the book which I will try to source! :)
 
Dont forget to consider the cost of a c-section should your bitch have difficulty. Most importantly know when to call the vet!

Ensure you know when to worm the bitch during pregnancy and after and the type of food she will need at each stage.

Please ensure you go into it with your eyes wide open and have researched everything and please do not make your pups another rescue statistic by not having the means to take the pups back/keep them if you cant home them or the homes cant have them anymore.
 
Breed traits are breed traits and with a mix of no training or an inexperience of dealing with those traits= Can often lead to the dog being rid of (more often than not when it does not resemble a puppy any longer);) but if you are offering back up for all of them you wont get to many surprises:)

Also keep in mind you live on a farm and she lives in a pig shed, if you find "pet homes" these pups will live very different lives to the mother and they will live less a working free roaming life but more a semi pampered pooch life with possibly far less exercise in most cases, which is where the mass behavioural problems begin.
If you had/have issues you have a shed/out building/kennels, these purchasers only have the house they live in and possibly a small garden.
Just another thought you may want to consider.
 
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I see where you're coming from - she lived in the house for the first 2 years though and only moved out a few months ago, was fine either way. But yes you are totally right!
Most people that will be having the pups are outdoor homes. My parents want one and that will be a house home but like I say she was always a house dog until recently and was fine. I can take that one back though if it doesn't work out.
 
As long as you can do that..then go for it.Perhaps get them NDTR tattooed so they are always traceable back to you?All ours are done,it`s a great safeguard.
 
Dobiegirl said:
Yours if memory serves me correct was a mixture of breeds and so it would have been no to a lot of that criteria.
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Personally i think x breeds are healthier overall,are long lived thus a damn site easier to find homes for plus i was breeding for myself and a few friends not selling to the open market,if needs be i would of kept all of them and was tempted too,i don't think i was in any way out of order and am happy that all mine are healthy,wonderful dogs,i see all mine every week nearly,great working terriers,they all have a use. So no i don't feel i need to answer to you or anyone else.
 
The reason why people seem to be a little judgemental is that a lot are involved with or see rescues are going through. I also get the regular updates of the many dogs who did not make it out of the pound and are simply put to sleep as rescues are out of space. Invariably they are very young dogs as well. A lot are Staffords or crosses but increasingly seeing a lot more of other terriers. We seem as a culture to have a throw away view with regards to animals which is increasing.

So that's why people question why you would look to breed. Your own responses show you did think it through in terms of where the puppies end up. In fact my only real pennies worth would be that you possibly need to grill your would be owners even more thoroughly to ensure your puppies have the life you want for them.

Please don't take the comments too harshly. People on here genuinely care for their dogs and if you read through some of the rescue posts, you would understand the reaction you received at first.
 
patterdale said:
I can take that one back though if it doesn't work out.
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What about the others? She could potentially have 9-12 pups - what then?

Sorry I have no advice for you re breeding as that is a privaledge I don't know enough about to even consider (amongst other reasons) but you will be responsible for providing lifelong loving homes for them all - be it with others or you if their circumstances change.

Also as others have said, they are not a dormant breed. Are the people that have expressed an interest in having the pups aware of their needs as a breed or just like the look of your bitch so fancy one themselves?
 
Thanks for the comments.

Having had a few patterdales I can't agree that they don't make good pets. Mine is not a working dog but was from working parents and she has been a wonderful pet. Perhaps a few bad examples of the breed coupled with unsuitable homes may have given them a bad name? I think the same can be said of any terrier, or any breed for that matter. They were almost all bred for a working purpose originally but this doesn't mean that they don't adapt to being good pets.

Being a hunting person I thoroughly support the 'working homes for working dogs' argument but I don't think it necessarily applies here.

As I've said temperament is one of the main factors which has helped me decide to breed. When people have asked me to let them know if I ever breed from her, it is usually because she is such a nice, calm, kind little dog who is easy to have around, rather than because she is 'cute!'

So hopefully if I put her to a stud with similar qualities I should get some nice pups who will thrive in any environment, as she has.
Obviously there are no guarantees when it comes to breeding, but as they say with horses - 'put the best to the best and hope for the best!' :)
(and before I am jumped on, this is a SAYING - I am not claiming to have the best dog ever!)

As to my reasons for wanting to breed from her I have already stated these.

Thanks again for any advice. I totally understand the rescue pup situation and am all for promoting responsible breeding. :)
 
Perhaps a few bad examples of the breed coupled with unsuitable homes may have given them a bad name?
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Sorry, I think you've misunderstood me (probs didn't put it across properly). They're great little dogs, but do better in an environment where they've actually got a job to do.

When people have asked me to let them know if I ever breed from her, it is usually because she is such a nice, calm, kind little dog who is easy to have around,
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Which is quite possibly down to her active and busy lifestyle with you.

Anyway, good luck with whatever you decide.
 
Lexiedhb yes - I do still believe that I am being responsible.

I have a nice healthy bitch who will have all necessary tests before breeding.

I have good homes confirmed for 12 (which as a small bitch with a first litter I doubt she will have)

I have found a good stud which I am prepared to travel to.

I have the necessary facilities and financial backup for the litter and any potential problems.

I am learning all I can to try and prevent problems arising, but will deal with them when they do, as they invariably will with animals.

So - good bitch, good stud, good homes waiting, all planning in place.

If YOU still think I'm not being responsible - I'm not going to lose any sleep over it.
There are many things I will need for breeding from my bitch, but luckily your permission is not one of them.

As I say, I see everyones point about various issues but I have taken the time to explain each one. Reading back over my posts should clarify this. I don't feel that I should have to continue justifying myself over and over - there is little else I can say.

Amymay - thanks for the good luck wish. As previously stated she was a house dog for the first 2 years of her life and it was not a problem.
 
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