Breyer - model/toy horses, real horses and cruelty

[Meowy Catkin]

A bit of a strange one but I'd love some thoughts on this.

So Breyer have released the pictures of their new sculpture and it is an American Saddlebred. It is beautifully sculpted and painted... however... it depicts a horse with a 'set' tail.

In this day and age I feel that companies shouldn't make toys that depict cruelty small or big. I think it normalises (horrible term, sorry) the look of what is essentially a mutilated tail and that is not OK. It glosses over that pain that the real horses go through. It's not something that I could enjoy looking at at all even though the plastic pony doesn't feel pain it represents cruelty. Apparently is is fine to show the breed with a natural tail in the US so they didn't have to sculpt it with the 'artificially altered' tail.

Warning this link contains photos.
https://twitter.com/halteqtailabuse

 

[milliepops]

I totally see where you're coming from

 

[The Trooper]

I don't want to ask, but what does 'setting' a tail involve?

 

[ycbm]

Completely agree with you. I also dislike Budweiser using docked Clydesdales.

 

[The Trooper]

Completely agree with you. I also dislike Budweiser using docked Clydesdales.

Docked tails are horrendous, (Legalities aside), I think it would put me off buying.

I don't even like cut tails, how do these horses shoo away the flies!?

 

[TPO]

There is apparently no level of depravity that the human race won't sink to in pursuit of competitive success...

I wasn't aware how the set tail happening; thank you for raising awareness. I'm usually too distracted by the deformed hooves and extreme shoeing "techniques" that I hadn't really cottoned onto the tail.

In western pleasure it has been known for the muscle to be cut so that the tail can't move in an effort to present the picture of a happy, calm and well trained horse... Irony is lost on the yanks I reckon.

I'd be very surprised if there wasn't already some form of petition. The anti-tail setting mob (ie. all compassionate humans??) would be well served using Twitter to contact Breyer publicly.

 

[Meowy Catkin]

I don't want to ask, but what does 'setting' a tail involve?

They cut the muscles under the dock and then by using straps and a tail support they hold the tail up so that it heals with the preferred added extra upwards mobility. The support often causes sores as it needs to be on for a fair length of time. It is painful so the horse wants to rub its tail, so you can buy a guard to prevent this. Of course you cannot turn your horse out during this time.

I have read claims that you can achieve a higher tail carriage by using a 'bustle' which is supposedly less cruel.

There are also images of horses in the show ring with metal braces (some actually poke into the mare's vulva) under their tails to hold then up. These tails normally have sores/healed sores and look distorted. The vertebrae look out of alignment, surely a sign that actually muscles have been cut? There are also apparently wigs for tails, so if your support/bustle/brace has caused such sores that your horse no longer grows a proper tail, don't worry, you can cover it all up and still get a rosette.

Basically they are taking a horse that has a natural low tail carriage and are trying to get a flagged tail like on an arab. They haven't bred for it though... it's far easier to mutilate the horse.


Someone did mention that the gait shown on the model wouldn't be achievable without long hooves and pads.

Pic showing metal brace below.
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[Regandal]

Dear god, why is that not illegal??

 

[Meowy Catkin]

It is here thankfully.

My thoughts seem to be falling on deaf ears on the model horse forum. Most of them are American and I do wonder if this is just highlighting a cultural difference in some way?

 

[Meowy Catkin]

Completely agree with you. I also dislike Budweiser using docked Clydesdales.

I agree about the docked Clydesdales.

 

[3OldPonies]

People are still so ignorant and cruel for misplaced beauty idealism. They should have a brace like that up their backside so they can see how it feels. But then perhaps the sadistic Barstewards might like it.

Until recently I didn't know about any of this wanton cruelty in the USA. I kind of wish I still didn't, but it's so much better for the horses that it's out in the open as maybe, with the benefit of the internet, active campaigning could see and end to it.

 

[meleeka]

Most of the disgusting disfigurements I’ve seen are the work of America. How a civilised country can allow that is beyond me.

 

[JFTDWS]

The whole industry is vile. I can't understand why anyone could possibly be involved in this stuff.

 

[ester]

I think you make a good point, and not one I had really considered previously. What do their TWH look like?

 

[TPO]

Most of the disgusting disfigurements I’ve seen are the work of America. How a civilised country can allow that is beyond me.

They keep people in cages and have children's deaths (murders) on their hands so the tail snipping barely registers. It's a sad state of affairs

 

[Meowy Catkin]

Midnight Sun big lick TWH, 1972 (apparently the real M Sun wasn't a Big Lick horse). This mould has not been used for a few years, I assumed it was due to the association with cruelty.

Bluegrass Bandit a flat shod TWH 2008

 

[Meowy Catkin]

Quote from modelhorseblab. http://www.modelhorseblab.com/forums/showthread.php?185514-Premier-Club-2nd-Model-Sneak-Peek/page5

Soapbox warning:

See, here's the thing... animal use, show horses and race horses in particular, are increasingly under threat by the Animal Rights Whackos who would rather these animals be dead than 'enslaved' by humans, and they LOVE the bickering within the fancy like this. So models have by and large stopped showing the 'big lick'-- largely because there really is NO WAY to get that gait without long-term abuse and pain to the horse. But then where do we draw the line about other things? Get rid of the bustled or set tail in Saddlebreds many of you say-- but then what? Stop showing thoroughbreds with racing tack because some people feel it's cruel? Stop showing western horses exhibiting a reining or western pleasure gait because someone decides that a low-headed horse is miserable, even when said horse moves like that on his own out in the field? Don't show a horse in a jumping pose because he could have been made to tuck his knees like that artificially? Outlaw any harnesses at model shows because some people think hitching a horse to a buggy or carriage is unnatural and cruel? Where do we draw the line? Is a minor procedure that heals in a few days the hill to die on when the rest of that horse's life he's treated like a king? Is that somehow worse than the backyard horse with no vaccinations, crappy fencing, no fly protection, and the like living a 'natural' life in a muddy field trying to keep from being eaten alive by bugs and picking through the weeds for food? It's time we band together as horse lovers and owners and support all aspects of the industry aside from outright cruelty, or we'll soon find no industry to support. You may not agree with a horse with a tail bustle, but that person may think your horse left to his own defenses with minimal care has it worse. Accept that views differ.

Personal preferences are fine, but when one starts deciding that others need to abide by those preferences, that's when things get sticky, and we need to bear in mind that horse use for any reason is under attack, and quibbling over something as minor as a set tail and calling that 'cruel' and 'mutilated' is what the AR people want so they can get legislation and laws in place to further restrict the rights of horse owners. The horse industry is losing people at a drastic rate to age, loss of land, expenses, and more and kids are not entering to take their place. Trails and facilities are being closed to horses. Stables are disappearing. People are so far removed from the reality of owning and working with horses that they think EVERYTHING is cruel. We're in trouble, and spreading falsehoods doesn't help. It's a plastic horse, folks. It's showing a current winning type. It is a dynamic, lovely sculpture by a talented artist. It is what it is. If you don't like it, don't buy it, but don't disparage those who do, or god forbid, those who happen to enjoy, show, ride, or own Saddlebred horses, and there are some on this board. Everyone crying 'torture!' for everything from horseshoes to curb bits to saddles these days is bad enough. Don't be part of it.

Well there you go... there is no point...

 

[ester]

midnight sun is truely fabulous to watch on the move, nothing like that model.

edited to add for anyone interested the full film is also a good watch

 

[JFTDWS]

You may not agree with a horse with a tail bustle, but that person may think your horse left to his own defenses with minimal care has it worse

Bifurcation fallacy Their argument is invalid...

 

[Meowy Catkin]

midnight sun is truely fabulous to watch on the move, nothing like that model.

edited to add for anyone interested the full film is also a good watch

Is his tail set?

 

[McFluff]

Gosh everyday is a school day. Shocking that mutilation is ‘acceptable’ in the pursuit of prizes.

 

[SatansLittleHelper]

I have never even heard of set tails....makes me sick to think that pure human vanity drives these horrific mutilation 🤬🤬🤬🤬😭

 

[Reacher]

I too had never heard of tail sets. Disgusting

 

[Tiddlypom]

I knew that this happened when I was young and still in Pony Club many moons ago, but I’m appalled that it’s still happening in these supposedly more enlightened times.

 

[ester]

Is his tail set?

Don't know, it's not something I know the history on really compared to stacks. I might attempt to go down that wormhole at some point.

 

[The Trooper]

They cut the muscles under the dock and then by using straps and a tail support they hold the tail up so that it heals with the preferred added extra upwards mobility. The support often causes sores as it needs to be on for a fair length of time. It is painful so the horse wants to rub its tail, so you can buy a guard to prevent this. Of course you cannot turn your horse out during this time.

I have read claims that you can achieve a higher tail carriage by using a 'bustle' which is supposedly less cruel.

There are also images of horses in the show ring with metal braces (some actually poke into the mare's vulva) under their tails to hold then up. These tails normally have sores/healed sores and look distorted. The vertebrae look out of alignment, surely a sign that actually muscles have been cut? There are also apparently wigs for tails, so if your support/bustle/brace has caused such sores that your horse no longer grows a proper tail, don't worry, you can cover it all up and still get a rosette.

Basically they are taking a horse that has a natural low tail carriage and are trying to get a flagged tail like on an arab. They haven't bred for it though... it's far easier to mutilate the horse.


Someone did mention that the gait shown on the model wouldn't be achievable without long hooves and pads.

Pic showing metal brace below.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.

Horrific. Absolutely disgusting practise.

Alas however, where there is a market it will continue regardless of welfare. Look at the Tennessee walking horses...

 

[dogatemysalad]

The abuse of Arabs is well known and scandalous, but surely, the show organisers should police this more effectively in order to make it undesirable and pointless, just like the dog showing world which still encourages dogs to be bred with deformities.
I don't think Breyer are the bad guys here. They are showing a romantic image of an Arab, not dissimilar to their Gypsy Vanner model with its tail held at an impossibly high angle. Anyone who owns a heavy weight traditional cob will know that the weight of it's tail makes that physically impossible. Disney animals are romanticized and idealized to make them more appealing to children in much the same way. Much art is not meant to be a realistic interpretation and to ban it is a step too far.

 

[The Trooper]

Much art is not meant to be a realistic interpretation and to ban it is a step too far.

I get that they were probably oblivious at the time (As i was) and just making a nice looking model. Looking at this from an extreme point of view, are they indirectly endorsing the practise?

I totally agree with your point about dog breeding, who ever thought it a good idea to selectively breed/inbreed Spina Bifida into a breed was an idiot.

 

[milliepops]

I get that they were probably oblivious at the time (As i was) and just making a nice looking model. Looking at this from an extreme point of view, are they indirectly endorsing the practise?
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certainly normalising it, if not endorsing.

 

[The Trooper]

certainly normalising it, if not endorsing.

Far better term to use... I'm rubbish at multi tasking evidently.