British Riding Pony or TB Yearling for future showjumping?

[Lina2023]

Good morning

We currently have an 18 year old Connie mare who we love to bits.

However, my daughter (12) dreams of bringing on a youngster to do some jumping with in a few years’ time.

We have a limited budget at the moment but a stable has come up on our yard and so it’s tempting me!

We have two lovely options at the moment that would fall within budget - a British Riding Pony yearling to make 15.1hh or a TB yearling to make 16.2hh.

I know TB ex-racers need a lot of work, can cost more to keep and can have need more foot care. Are there any considerations when buying an untrained/unraced yearling?

BRPs seem to be great and versatile as a breed but would we be better opting for something that’s going to make 16hh?

I’m not expecting my daughter to reach professional level jumping (you never know!) but she’d like to jump 90cm-1m+.

Another option I have is a warmblood foal due in May and to be weaned in October but then I won’t yet know size (sire 16.1 and dam 15.1) and it means keeping the stable free for several months!

Advice would be appreciated please! Many thanks

 

[OrangeAndLemon]

Do you have other youngstock on the yard for it to grow up with and be turned out with? If not, do you have somewhere local for it to go and grow up for a few years with other similarly aged horses?

ETA: I'd be worried that the youngster will need the most work and attention as your daughter is reaching the age of 14/15/16 and will she still be as committed to bringing on a young horse when all of her friends are out competing on established, older horses?

 

[Lina2023]

Yes, we’re on a yard with lots of young stock - it seems to be catching ! And there are places near by if more turnout is needed.

 

[ihatework]

Neither.
A yearling on a stabled yard is not the way to go.
Pop your monthly allowance aside and use it as your budget to buy a nice 3/4yo when you have enough.

 

[Lina2023]

Thank-you - we have lots of turnout on our yard and 24/7 over summer with plenty of youngsters already here. I’m more interested in opinions on which breeding/height you would lean towards. Thanks

 

[OrangeAndLemon]

Thank-you - we have lots of turnout on our yard and 24/7 over summer with plenty of youngsters already here. I’m more interested in opinions on which breeding/height you would lean towards. Thanks

It would be a gamble buying at that age. There's no guarantees so if you have particular height, temperament, etc in mind, follow ihatework's advice. It's the only way to be sure you'll get what you want.

 

[Lina2023]

Appreciate your advice and that there are no guarantees, as with anything! But we would like the experience of bringing up a youngster, regardless of the outcome and offer a loving, forever home.

 

[ihatework]

Thank-you - we have lots of turnout on our yard and 24/7 over summer with plenty of youngsters already here. I’m more interested in opinions on which breeding/height you would lean towards. Thanks

Like I said, neither.
You have no idea how much your daughter will grow! If her interests will change, if she will have the confidence to bring on a young horse.
You have no idea how much a yearling will grow, the BRP may stay too small. The TB might end up too big.

By all means go and do it if you want, no skin off my nose, but it's on the scale of daft ideas given you are on a tight budget. There are far better ways to spend a limited amount of money to support future sj ambitions for your daughter.

 

[TheMule]

Neither are suitable as future SJers

 

[minesadouble]

I'll be honest and say neither woul be my No1 choice for jumping. You'd be better off with an overheight Connie then BRP or TB.

 

[paddi22]

you would be absolutely mad to buy one so young. what your daughter wants, and what's a sensible option for her are totally different.

you have risk of injury before it becomes rideable, and you have no idea if its temperament will suit or if it can be a jumper. I wouldn't worry about breed, any height and breed can jump a metre/90s - its the temperament you want and that varies on individual horse regardless of breed. we have rescue cobs here that will fly around a metre course. personally I wouldn't do your plan. youngsters go through challenging phases and need a confident rider to guide them, its so easy to go wrong and ruin them. a 12 year old child isn't a good fit. you risk injury, risking her confidence and her being way behind in her riding because she's not able to progress 'normally'. and you're talking probably 5 years of livery bills every month before she's even ready to jump a 90s, and that's with all going perfectly, and with you spending an absolute fortune on lessons and schooling.

you will end up spending more more on getting professionals to get you over the humps as your daughter will not 'bring on' a horse, she doesn't have the skills. I am in my 40s and I still struggle with some youngsters. youngsters are a money pit. if you had land at home and another horse for her to ride id say go for it. but you will end up spending a fortune on livery to watch a horse grow slowly in a field. your daughter will also miss out the best years of just having fun and going out enjoying horses with her friends. the idea of a child and horse growing together is a charming idea but the reality is hardship. how will your daughter cope when her friends are all off at shows and camps, while she's stuck trying to stop a wobbly nervous tb from spooking and spinning at a corner four weeks in a row? youngsters are a grind and you need to be able to know how to develop them or it's a car crash.

edit: reading this there it sounds harsh, but you see some many kids who think its cool to 'bring on a youngster' and it honestly ends the same way - a car crash. kids don't have the maturity or patience to develop a sport horse correctly. the horses miss gaps in their education, usually learn very quickly they can refuse or nap. and you end up with a kid that loses their confidence and just isn't having fun. their friends end up going up the heights while they are stuck for years at lower levels getting frustrated. I would have asked my parents the same thing your daughter did (but at 15) and im so thankful they didn't listen to me

 

[Lina2023]

I'll be honest and say neither woul be my No1 choice for jumping. You'd be better off with an overheight Connie then BRP or TB.

Thanks! Our Connie is over-height and we absolutely love her to bits

 

[Lina2023]

you would be absolutely mad to buy one so young. what your daughter wants, and what's a sensible option for her are totally different.

you have risk of injury before it becomes rideable, and you have no idea if its temperament will suit or if it can be a jumper. I wouldn't worry about breed, any height and breed can jump a metre/90s - its the temperament you want and that varies on individual horse regardless of breed. we have rescue cobs here that will fly around a metre course. personally I wouldn't do your plan. youngsters go through challenging phases and need a confident rider to guide them, its so easy to go wrong and ruin them. a 12 year old child isn't a good fit. you risk injury, risking her confidence and her being way behind in her riding because she's not able to progress 'normally'. and you're talking probably 5 years of livery bills every month before she's even ready to jump a 90s, and that's with all going perfectly, and with you spending an absolute fortune on lessons and schooling.

you will end up spending more more on getting professionals to get you over the humps as your daughter will not 'bring on' a horse, she doesn't have the skills. I am in my 40s and I still struggle with some youngsters. youngsters are a money pit. if you had land at home and another horse for her to ride id say go for it. but you will end up spending a fortune on livery to watch a horse grow slowly in a field. your daughter will also miss out the best years of just having fun and going out enjoying horses with her friends. the idea of a child and horse growing together is a charming idea but the reality is hardship. how will your daughter cope when her friends are all off at shows and camps, while she's stuck trying to stop a wobbly nervous tb from spooking and spinning at a corner four weeks in a row? youngsters are a grind and you need to be able to know how to develop them or it's a car crash.

edit: reading this there it sounds harsh, but you see some many kids who think its cool to 'bring on a youngster' and it honestly ends the same way - a car crash. kids don't have the maturity or patience to develop a sport horse correctly. the horses miss gaps in their education, usually learn very quickly they can refuse or nap. and you end up with a kid that loses their confidence and just isn't having fun. their friends end up going up the heights while they are stuck for years at lower levels getting frustrated. I would have asked my parents the same thing your daughter did (but at 15) and im so thankful they didn't listen to me

Thanks for the advice and I don’t think it’s harsh! We are both horsey so it wouldn’t be left to my daughter alone and we are on a very experienced yard with a great instructor. I do appreciate that it is a long haul with no guaranteed results (we’ve seen this personally with one of the gorgeous youngsters on our yard currently).

There’s a lot to think about and I agree that it’s a big decision to make and not going ahead may actually be the best option.

 

[Mrs G]

Going from your older, established Connie to an unbacked, potentially 16.2hh TB is a rather massive step for your daughter! I wouldnt rate the pony option either - by the time it's ready to be backed your daughter could have already outgrown it. Buying a yearling is so risky you don't know what height/temperament/ability you will end up with. I'd save what you would have spent on buying/feeding/keeping a yearling and look for a nice horse in the future - you can still get a younger one to bring on if that's what you really want but get one old enough so you know what you're getting?

 

[Patterdale]

If you are desperate to do this then go ahead. It won’t matter which one you choose as without a crystal ball you have no way of knowing which (if either) will succeed.

Doing this as a plan to save money though is absolutely BONKERS. If you were my friend in real life I’d stage an intervention to tell you this! It’s stark raving nuts.

You will spend 3x the cost of a nice ready made horse at LEAST, and it will be 4-5 years before it’s out competing properly, that’s if it even makes it that far.

You will invest all this time and money into the animal who is very unlikely to turn out to be what you want, but you’ll keep flogging the metaphorical dead horse because of how much time and money you’ve already sunk in it.

And your daughter, who will most likely be keen on other things by then, will feel pressure to make a go of it and there will be resentment bred all round.

Keeping it on a stabled livery yard is completely inappropriate and will breed more problems, but that’s already been said.

If you just want an answer to your original question, it’s impossible to say without seeing them. But generally speaking they are both dreadful choices. The TB will go lame and the BRP will not jump because they are not bred to jump. It will dangle its front legs over fences and spook. The TB might jump but it will most likely be lame most of the time, especially if it’s spent half it’s formative years stabled.

Can you tell that I’ve seen people make this mistake, who’ve all wished someone was there to tell them not to do it?

You and your daughter will get much more fun out of a) waiting and saving or b) buying a nice simple project to have the fun of bringing on. There’s loads out there at the moment.

 

[paddi22]

it's just seeing how hard it is on kids..

you see them go up all excited the first few weeks, give the baby carrots and a pat. it's brilliant for first few weeks then novelty wears off. they watch their friends go off having fun together. same next week, and week after for 3 years. then it finally gets backed and they are all excited. then they realise they can only sit on it for ten mins at a go and just walk and turn. then watch their friends go off having fun together hear all about their adventures. then they start to ride but everything is an issue or problem, because the horse won't go straight, turn, start, stop or let them hold a contact like their old horse did. so they lose confidence. the horse picks up and the bucking/napping/rearing testing phase kicks in. kid loses more confidence. they can't go out for hacks or have fun with their friends because the horse gets upset/too excited/spooky. this goes on for years. then they finally get to a jump, and it's a car crash normally once the horse realises a kid is riding it and not the instructor, and both rider and horse lose confidence. this goes on for a year usually. then they kind of manage jumping in lessons and the kid wants to rush up heights to keep up with their friends, and then then its a total car crash of the horse motorbiking turns with no rhythm cos kid is nervous. this is literally how its gone with any kid I've seen get a young horse. and they all lose confidence and valuable riding years where they should be developing and gaining confidence and having fun. it's just played out on livery yards all over the country when kids go from a schoolmaster to a baby horse.

 

[Lina2023]

If you are desperate to do this then go ahead. It won’t matter which one you choose as without a crystal ball you have no way of knowing which (if either) will succeed.

Doing this as a plan to save money though is absolutely BONKERS. If you were my friend in real life I’d stage an intervention to tell you this! It’s stark raving nuts.

You will spend 3x the cost of a nice ready made horse at LEAST, and it will be 4-5 years before it’s out competing properly, that’s if it even makes it that far.

You will invest all this time and money into the animal who is very unlikely to turn out to be what you want, but you’ll keep flogging the metaphorical dead horse because of how much time and money you’ve already sunk in it.

And your daughter, who will most likely be keen on other things by then, will feel pressure to make a go of it and there will be resentment bred all round.

Keeping it on a stabled livery yard is completely inappropriate and will breed more problems, but that’s already been said.

If you just want an answer to your original question, it’s impossible to say without seeing them. But generally speaking they are both dreadful choices. The TB will go lame and the BRP will not jump because they are not bred to jump. It will dangle its front legs over fences and spook. The TB might jump but it will most likely be lame most of the time, especially if it’s spent half it’s formative years stabled.

Can you tell that I’ve seen people make this mistake, who’ve all wished someone was there to tell them not to do it?

Thank-you! Definitely not doing this as a way to save money I know very well that horses take every last penny one way or another I only mentioned the budget because lots of yearlings are £5-10k plus due to famous bloodlines and that is not the budget we have for a purchase. Upkeep costs we are well aware of and our Connie wants for nothing - as I said, she gets all my money

Thanks for your experience and advice though, it is definitely helpful and welcomed. We aren’t definitely going to go ahead because I don’t have blinkers on and am happy to listen to people who have been there!

 

[paddi22]

we had a kid with us a few years ago who wanted to do the same thing and become a show jumper, kept going on about 'producing horses'. we flipped it and said she had to produce herself to be a show jumper.

so to get as much experience and ride as many horses as she could, we stuck her on everything here. and to do as much training as she could, do all the confidence mindset building she could. we set her a challenge of getting a cheap average horse and getting it as good as she could, selling it on and getting another, with all the money going on training instead of horse cost. she then sold it on after a year or so and got another. she worked on the yard, bartered work for lessons, rode anything going. got good enough that people wanted her to ride their horses or compete them, and then worked her way up to better and better horses. she's an adult now and working on a racing yard and is a fantastic rider. the best kid riders don't get given good horses, they make the best off what they have and gradually upgrade as their skill develops. if your kid wants to be a good rider, id set her down that path. that way she keeps riding and improving, has a clear pathway to progress and goals.

 

[Lina2023]

we had a kid with us a few years ago who wanted to do the same thing and become a show jumper, kept going on about 'producing horses'. we flipped it and said she had to produce herself to be a show jumper.

so to get as much experience and ride as many horses as she could, we stuck her on everything here. and to do as much training as she could, do all the confidence mindset building she could. we set her a challenge of getting a cheap average horse and getting it as good as she could, selling it on and getting another, with all the money going on training instead of horse cost. she then sold it on after a year or so and got another. she worked on the yard, bartered work for lessons, rode anything going. got good enough that people wanted her to ride their horses or compete them, and then worked her way up to better and better horses. she's an adult now and working on a racing yard and is a fantastic rider. the best kid riders don't get given good horses, they make the best off what they have and gradually upgrade as their skill develops. if your kid wants to be a good rider, id set her down that path. that way she keeps riding and improving, has a clear pathway to progress and goals.

Sounds like you gave her an amazing experience!

My daughter does ride very well - she started off in a riding school environment for many years before loaning and then getting our own. She has ridden other horses at the yard too and has regular lessons. She’s a dedicated horse owner (we’re meant to be sharing but I don’t get a look in ) and gets stuck in with all aspects of care.

I understand the end result isn’t guaranteed but I know it’s the process that is more important to her. She (and I would say the same for myself!) has a huge and kind heart and lots of love to give. I understand that isn’t enough, and it takes a knowledgeable home to raise a youngster correctly too. It would be our first little one but we have a wealth of experience to draw upon on our yard, in addition to what we have learned from watching our fellow liveries.

However, priority would always be to do right by the horse and so there’s a lot to think about and the decision is by no means made at this stage.

 

[TheMule]

Thank-you! Definitely not doing this as a way to save money I know very well that horses take every last penny one way or another I only mentioned the budget because lots of yearlings are £5-10k plus due to famous bloodlines and that is not the budget we have for a purchase. Upkeep costs we are well aware of and our Connie wants for nothing - as I said, she gets all my money

Thanks for your experience and advice though, it is definitely helpful and welcomed. We aren’t definitely going to go ahead because I don’t have blinkers on and am happy to listen to people who have been there!

You will easily have 5k this time next year if you save the money you would otherwise be spending on livery, farrier, worming and basic essential vet costs. And then it only needs 1 thing to go wrong and you'd probably have spared yourself the 10k too

 

[criso]

Tbs
Not natural showjumpers. Look at show jumpers and their breeding if that's what you want.

BRP
I had a BRP who was an amazing jumper, it was a long time ago so maybe they bred them differently then however she was bought at 5 years old as a green youngster but had relatives out jumping at a very high level. So I would want to see in the yearling's bloodlines examples of other horses show-jumping to a reasonable standard.

But despite having parents over 15hh, she was 14.2. Perfect for me at 14 wanting to do junior classes. If I'd bought her as a yearling at 12 I've have outgrown her and been coming out of junior classes by the time she was properly competitive. She'd have been sold to make over 15hh as a yearling

Then there's the issue that a yearling won't be rideable for a few years so in that scenario, ideally you would get something for your daughter to ride now to develop her skills so she's ready in maybe 3 years time to help with an unbroken youngster.

If your daughter is interested in the process and if you are experienced to do a lot of the work, how about buying a broken but green youngster now of no particular breeding of a smaller size. She she will develop her skills and when she outgrows it, sell as an established pony which would give a better budget to invest in a bigger horse to take her to the next stage.

 

[Lina2023]

You will easily have 5k this time next year if you save the money you would otherwise be spending on livery, farrier, worming and basic essential vet costs. And then it only needs 1 thing to go wrong and you'd probably have spared yourself the 10k too

Yes completely understand this! It is the process of raising a youngster that we’d love the privilege to be involved in too and whilst it’s extremely demanding, hard work and costly, I expect it’s also hugely rewarding. Lots to consider!

 

[Lina2023]

Tbs
Not natural showjumpers. Look at show jumpers and their breeding if that's what you want.

BRP
I had a BRP who was an amazing jumper, it was a long time ago so maybe they bred them differently then however she was bought at 5 years old as a green youngster but had relatives out jumping at a very high level. So I would want to see in the yearling's bloodlines examples of other horses show-jumping to a reasonable standard.

But despite having parents over 15hh, she was 14.2. Perfect for me at 14 wanting to do junior classes. If I'd bought her as a yearling at 12 I've have outgrown her and been coming out of junior classes by the time she was properly competitive. She'd have been sold to make over 15hh as a yearling

Then there's the issue that a yearling won't be rideable for a few years so in that scenario, ideally you would get something for your daughter to ride now to develop her skills so she's ready in maybe 3 years time to help with an unbroken youngster.

If your daughter is interested in the process and if you are experienced to do a lot of the work, how about buying a broken but green youngster now of no particular breeding of a smaller size. She she will develop her skills and when she outgrows it, sell as an established pony which would give a better budget to invest in a bigger horse to take her to the next stage.

Thank you. Yes, I understand there’s always a risk that a horse may not make the height or grow bigger than anticipated!

We do have our lovely Connie that is 18 years young and flies around and they have an amazing bond

Thanks for your advice.

 

[honetpot]

We brought on all our ponies, and the best value is a two rising three, or just sat on or perhaps basic trained three. If you can get any proven breeding thats a plus. As everything is a lottery, if its not what you want when its backed to have increased its sale value,your daughter will have learned patience, you turn the money over and start again.
My first thought when I buy anything is will it do someone a job, I bought a not so good show pony, and sold it as a PC pony. I think its too long for your daughter to wait, if she wants something to fiddle with buy her a coloured cheapy, or buy her something that perhaps doing another job not very well and try the SJ or XC, wouldn't go for a set breed or type and have an open mind.
At twelve your daughter has about two years before hormones, school work and outside influences kick in, I speak from experience, both of mine really stopped riding at sixteen, so work on a two to four year timescale.

 

[Lina2023]

We brought on all our ponies, and the best value is a two rising three, or just sat on or perhaps basic trained three. If you can get any proven breeding thats a plus. As everything is a lottery, if its not what you want when its backed to have increased its sale value,your daughter will have learned patience, you turn the money over and start again.
My first thought when I buy anything is will it do someone a job, I bought a not so good show pony, and sold it as a PC pony. I think its too long for your daughter to wait, if she wants something to fiddle with buy her a coloured cheapy, or buy her something that perhaps doing another job not very well and try the SJ or XC, wouldn't go for a set breed or type and have an open mind.
At twelve your daughter has about two years before hormones, school work and outside influences kick in, I speak from experience, both of mine really stopped riding at sixteen, so work on a two to four year timescale.

Thank you! That’s exactly my thinking - the experience is second to none and if it doesn’t turn out to be suitable, we can review at the time. I perhaps titled the thread inaccurately, as it is most definitely the experience she (and myself) is after rather than the end result.

She’s a very mature 12 year old who is home educated so somewhat outside the school/peer pressure teen environment and is already working on her GCSEs (we can stagger these and pick and choose as we enter privately so it’s not quite the same pressure level as doing them all together in Year 11). She also has the advantage of more time during the day as her studying takes up less time than a full school day.

Based on your own experience, that would lean me to consider the BRP if we do decide to go down this route at all.

Thanks again!

 

[RachelFerd]

Don't buy anything and watch like a hawk for suitable loan horses. You can't teach what you don't know - if you want to produce a youngster to jump 1m tracks, the best way to learn to do that is by spending time riding a nicely educated horse jumping 1m tracks.

 

[Lina2023]

Don't buy anything and watch like a hawk for suitable loan horses. You can't teach what you don't know - if you want to produce a youngster to jump 1m tracks, the best way to learn to do that is by spending time riding a nicely educated horse jumping 1m tracks.

Thank-you. We do already have a nicely educated mare who we love to bits and she has private lessons on her at the moment

 

[TheMule]

Yes completely understand this! It is the process of raising a youngster that we’d love the privilege to be involved in too and whilst it’s extremely demanding, hard work and costly, I expect it’s also hugely rewarding. Lots to consider!

Do you know what? It’s actually very dull. I have three 2 year olds out in the field. They just need to live out with each other and kind of just amble round the field. It’s not really demanding or hard work and there also isn’t that much reward in it! I do it because I like to breed my own horses and I have 10 spare acres to run them on (they absolutely must be out 24/7 all year round, or in an appropriate group housing set up for the worst of the winter)

 

[ihatework]

If you are going to do this (and I still say you shouldn’t) then it costs as much to produce a good one as it does a bad one.

Therefore buy the right raw material.

For a teenager to jump 1m this does not necessarily mean a mega bucks warmblood baby!

Go for a half blood - TB x native/irish that looks like it will be a mid weight 15.2/3 type.

Make sure the dam has had a useful allrounder career and shown herself sound and sane.

Then make sure the youngster isn’t over done/handled - very easy to ruin them before you start.

Set aside money every month for a professional to do the backing and riding on - budget at least £250/week for at least 3 months - this will help set the horse up for success with a teenager.

In the interim daughter should continue to get sj experience on established horses.

ETA - HQ 317200 looks nice, if a little long in the cannon.

 

[Lina2023]

If you are going to do this (and I still say you shouldn’t) then it costs as much to produce a good one as it does a bad one.

Therefore buy the right raw material.

For a teenager to jump 1m this does not necessarily mean a mega bucks warmblood baby!

Go for a half blood - TB x native/irish that looks like it will be a mid weight 15.2/3 type.

Make sure the dam has had a useful allrounder career and shown herself sound and sane.

Then make sure the youngster isn’t over done/handled - very easy to ruin them before you start.

Set aside money every month for a professional to do the backing and riding on - budget at least £250/week for at least 3 months - this will help set the horse up for success with a teenager.

In the interim daughter should continue to get sj experience on established horses.

ETA - HQ 317200 looks nice, if a little long in the cannon.

Thank you very much, this is super helpful advice! Really appreciate it Will continue to mull it over.