Broken 6yo.. WWYD?

misst said:
Sorry but first of all I'd sack the vet. Then I'd make sure the diagnosis was correct (suspensory damage in particuar in 3 legs
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Whilst I agree with sacking the vet, he did show me the scans so I did see the suspensory damage in all 4 legs.

Michen said:
Maybe I’ve missed it but I don’t think the vet has directly been asked “would it be wrong to PTS this horse” and said no. He’s been asked what he’d do in this situation and given his answer. Yes it may be different from what some of you on here would do.

Op above all I’m really sorry you are in this situation and fully, fully sympathize. Whatever you do will be the right thing. Xx
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Thank you Michen. X
I asked the vet would I be wrong to PTS.. he replied ‘you’re considering digging a hole?’ (In a sarcastic way, it’s not really funny!) And then he said what I quoted above. He did say a few weeks ago if it were his horse (who is late teens) he would PTS.
 
Hormonal Filly said:
Whilst I agree with sacking the vet, he did show me the scans so I did see the suspensory damage in all 4 legs.



Thank you Michen. X
I asked the vet would I be wrong to PTS.. he replied ‘you’re considering digging a hole?’ (In a sarcastic way, it’s not really funny!) And then he said what I quoted above. He did say a few weeks ago if it were his horse (who is late teens) he would PTS.
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It's not funny! I'm a bit horrified actually - hard enough as it is
 
vet sounds like an arse but its almost irrelevant.

she cant stand up to what YOU want to do

even if she can stand up to super light once a week walk amble hacking she sounds too sharp and you would only ever be able to loan from your yard to guarantee she isn't sold on or over worked. so bang goes your riding future.

her future is VERY limited. personally i would still PTS and i would request ANY other vet to do that as you dont more of this ones rubbish!
 
A friend recommended a local vet who is apparently very knowledgeable and straight to the point. I called and left a message, asking if she could provide any advice on my horses prognosis (if vet reports sent over) because I'm finding it hard where to go and considering PTS. Happy to pay.

She called me this afternoon, she did say with suspensories sometimes scans can make them look worse depending on how you scan them but that isn't to say the vet is incorrect, she questioned the improvement after nerve blocks and which he did first etc. She was on her way to a appointment. After a 10 minute chat based on what I've said, she said I have a strong case for calling it a day. She is going to call me later.

Just feel it would sit better in my mind running this through with another vet, who can give me a honest prognosis.
 
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Hormonal Filly said:
Whilst I agree with sacking the vet, he did show me the scans so I did see the suspensory damage in all 4 legs.



Thank you Michen. X
I asked the vet would I be wrong to PTS.. he replied ‘you’re considering digging a hole?’ (In a sarcastic way, it’s not really funny!) And then he said what I quoted above. He did say a few weeks ago if it were his horse (who is late teens) he would PTS.
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I think I have a good relationship with my vet, and normally I get a frank objective opinion, but I was surprised when my old pony injured his shoulder and he was on three legs that she wasn't more forthright about the prognosis. I didn't tell her when I had him PTS. Its hard enough to make that choice and the last thing you need is someone going, if we do this, and then you feel like the baddy in the situation.
It so much easier to give opninions and then walk away from the reality of daily care.
 
It was a lovely honest vet who just told me straight that our lad wasn't going to improve and that in his opinion we should at least consider PTS unless we had enough funds to keep his care up and to fund another horse for my daughter. He actually said "This should be enjoyable, you spend so much time money and effort on a horse. There is no shame in PTS and it is better than throwing good money after bad on an unhappy horse". He also said he would continue to offer solutions/treatments if we were sure that was what we wanted. We PTS a few weeks later he was 12.

The great Sue Dyson was also brutal about one of ours and simply said "this is a non recoverable injury. It will get worse. You can turn away but my advice is PTS now". This one was 9yo and he was my daughters love and joy. We waited a month to actually do the deed as she was young and needed that time. The previous vet had kept offering solutions and we loved him so much we put him through 6 months box rest in the hope of him recovering. Never will I do that to a horse again but it was the first time we had encountered this kind of problem and we were keen to grasp any straw of hope.

It sounds as if your horse has so much going on and from bitter experience you fix one thing and trigger something else. I am so sorry you are having to go through this x
 
I sent all the history, MRI report and ultrasound scans to the ‘third’ opinion vet. She reviewed and interesting didn’t pick a huge deal up on the suspensory scans, they’re matching pairs (hinds and fronts) apart from a small area in the front right but it isn’t a big hole just one darker area. This vet has given me endless advice, and not asked for a penny. I’ll definitely be using her going forward.

She doesn’t agree with box rest and prefers to give them lots of walking, or turning them away.

After a long discussions and the fact she has been so dangerous to handle - rearing vertical. She has had so much going on in the last 12 months the vet pushed to turn her away. I’ve found mares she can go into a field with for 6 months living out 24/7 in a large field.

If I bring her back into work gradually as a ‘hack’ in April and she isn’t happy, she’ll be put to sleep. I feel like I’ve done all I can at that point and I’ve given her the best chance.
 
Goldenstar said:
There’s no point what so ever in turning away a horse with PSD .
Has he suggested shock wave for the suspensories ?
You can also inject steroid so it creeps over the area to settle acute inflammation although I think you be too far in now for that help .
Then of course there’s surgery ( that’s a neurectomy ) there’s no way I would consider surgery.
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Just to put the opposite side of this, my sisters horse with psd was not box rested as he would have blown his top, so small pen turnout over summer and inhand walking....we just did the walking for longer than if he was on boxrest. He came back sound.


One of mine did a suspensory branch injury, after 8 weeks box rest no improvement so vet advised turning away for 8 months and see what happened. He came sound. For me I would not box rest long term for ligaments again. As I know a few friends who have box rested and then re turning out the horse has done the same thing but come sound on 8 mths in a feild.

OP, for me it would be either turn away to review in the spring or PTS, either are vaild options
 
Hormonal Filly said:
I sent all the history, MRI report and ultrasound scans to the ‘third’ opinion vet. She reviewed and interesting didn’t pick a huge deal up on the suspensory scans, they’re matching pairs (hinds and fronts) apart from a small area in the front right but it isn’t a big hole just one darker area. This vet has given me endless advice, and not asked for a penny. I’ll definitely be using her going forward.

She doesn’t agree with box rest and prefers to give them lots of walking, or turning them away.

After a long discussions and the fact she has been so dangerous to handle - rearing vertical. She has had so much going on in the last 12 months the vet pushed to turn her away. I’ve found mares she can go into a field with for 6 months living out 24/7 in a large field.

If I bring her back into work gradually as a ‘hack’ in April and she isn’t happy, she’ll be put to sleep. I feel like I’ve done all I can at that point and I’ve given her the best chance.
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I'm glad you got another opinion sometimes it really does pay to do especially if you have a gut feeling about a vet.

When Arabi was 5 he went lame vet said feet were long unbalanced and even after remedial shoes was not right, I know his feet were still not right but had a farrier saying they were vet wanted more investigation used all my insurance, and came back with arthritis in elbow he put steroid in it but told me that it probably won't do much and he will never be sound and pts.

I was devastated but I knew his feet were still not right and was telling the lady I worked for at the time, she told me to get another opinion from her vet he came down took one look at his feet said they were not right, he said he couldn't see anything wrong with his elbows no arthritis on any of the hoof or leg x rays, he passed all his flexion tests.

I then found a different farrier recommended to me and he shod him in natural balance shoes in front, chopped a huge amount of toe off and his feet looked so much better I trotted him up lunged him sent a video to new vet he said he looks sound.

For years he was fine and was diagnosed with coffin joint arthritis at 19 never had an elbow issue.

I'm so glad I got a second opinion.
 
My 6yo mare with psd is also currently turned away, she has been since may and I will review her in spring and if she’s still not right i will pts. We tried box rest, in hand walking rehab plan and laser/shock wave treatment with no success so I i am doing this as a last resort and hoping time heals and completely agree with what you’re doing
 
Just a quick update. She had been living out 24/7 since November but the field became extremely saturated and the other owners decided to bring their horses in a lot. Not ideal. Apart from that she has been naked and moving well.

I’ve been able to put her out with 4 others (that all live out) in 30 acres until Spring. Luckily the field was on the farm, so no change in rent or having to give up my stable. Lots of natural tree cover so its perfect. She moved over a few days ago, they had a canter around but soon grazed.

I noticed yesterday when she trotted across the field she’s lame behind on her right hind, not hopping but suspect 2/10th. She seems happy, just tail swishy when she trotted. That’s the leg she had the chip removed from her hock in Feb 2023, also has mild OCD in her stifle and suspensory inflammation.

I understand the cold isn’t good for joints, but not feeling very positive now that being turned away will do anything.

Will try and close my eyes until spring, she can stay out until then and will review.
 
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Hormonal Filly said:
Just a quick update. She had been living out 24/7 since November but the field became extremely saturated and the other owners decided to bring their horses in a lot. Not ideal. Apart from that she has been naked and moving well.

I’ve been able to put her out with 4 others (that all live out) in 30 acres until Spring. Luckily the field was on the farm, so no change in rent or having to give up my stable. Lots of natural tree cover so its perfect. She moved over a few days ago, they had a canter around but soon grazed.

I noticed yesterday when she trotted across the field she’s lame behind on her right hind, not hopping but suspect 2/10th. She seems happy, just tail swishy when she trotted. That’s the leg she had the chip removed from her hock in Feb 2023, also has mild OCD in her stifle and suspensory inflammation.

I understand the cold isn’t good for joints, but not feeling very positive now that being turned away will do anything.

Will try and close my eyes until spring, she can stay out until then and will review.
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Can you give/are you giving a painkiller of some description?

If she's lame then there is pain somewhere. Movement is good, but it should be comfortable movement.

If she's away until reassessment in spring is there a way to give her something to take the edge off?
 
TPO said:
Can you give/are you giving a painkiller of some description?

If she's lame then there is pain somewhere. Movement is good, but it should be comfortable movement.

If she's away until reassessment in spring is there a way to give her something to take the edge off?
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It would be difficult. She won’t eat Bute in a feed and she isn’t getting any hard feed. I guess I could syringe it everyday, but between me and 3 others we’re splitting which days we check on them.
 
I’d give Boswellia. Most horses tolerate it well and it works particularly well on joint issues rather than soft tissue. I haven’t known a horse dislike the taste either. Continually moving ‘wrong’ to compensate will create other issues in the short and long term.
 
Hormonal Filly said:
It would be difficult. She won’t eat Bute in a feed and she isn’t getting any hard feed. I guess I could syringe it everyday, but between me and 3 others we’re splitting which days we check on them.
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My horse has 1 x Equioxx a day and it really helps. He thinks bute is toxic waste but eats the Equioxx no problem at all.
 
Touch wood since the lameness incident I haven’t noticed any lameness (or has 2 other owners)

She is in her element.. it’s perfect, 20 acres, tree cover and 3 friends. It’s lovely to see. I feel like even if she is PTS in April, she’s had an enjoyable 6 months.

Problem is she is SO fat. Nothing I’m aware I can do for now though. Unless I muzzle her. She’s naked, they get hay a few times a week because the others aren’t good doers and need it.

Summer will be very difficult to get weight off her (it’s always been difficult even if she comes into spring lean!) but will see if she’s sound for the vet first and go from there. I think it’s best to not lunge her when the time comes, but just see if she’s sound in a straight line.
 
Hormonal Filly said:
Touch wood since the lameness incident I haven’t noticed any lameness (or has 2 other owners)

She is in her element.. it’s perfect, 20 acres, tree cover and 3 friends. It’s lovely to see. I feel like even if she is PTS in April, she’s had an enjoyable 6 months.

Problem is she is SO fat. Nothing I’m aware I can do for now though. Unless I muzzle her. She’s naked, they get hay a few times a week because the others aren’t good doers and need it.

Summer will be very difficult to get weight off her (it’s always been difficult even if she comes into spring lean!) but will see if she’s sound for the vet first and go from there. I think it’s best to not lunge her when the time comes, but just see if she’s sound in a straight line.
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That's really good news. And you sound so much less stressed in your update. 🙂

I wouldn't worry about weight until after April. Fluff makes them look much worse than they really are if wintering naked.
 
dorsetladette said:
That's really good news. And you sound so much less stressed in your update. 🙂

I wouldn't worry about weight until after April. Fluff makes them look much worse than they really are if wintering naked.
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Thank you, I feel a lot less stressed. :) I go up 2-3 times a week (we take it in turns to check them) rather than once/twice a day everyday which has been nice. It’s taken so much pressure off. Rather than constantly stress over her, I’ve been able to enjoy other things.

I feel like I can judge the situation in April realistically with my head over heart.
 
I’ve spoken to the vet (most recent vet who reviewed all notes, X-rays scans and gave advice without wanting a penny) and she is coming to review at the start of April.

She looks to of lost a bit of weight, which is good.

She has started really moulting so gave her a good scratch today. She was loving it. She loved her back scratched but as soon as I put some weight on her back (barely anything, but wanted to see her reaction which maybe was a bad idea) she flung her head around to really bite me. Mouth open, teeth bearing.

I probably shouldn’t think much of it, but always use to mess around in the field with her and never had any behaviour like that. I also stroked her lower neck and she pinned her ears and walked away.

It concerns me because she isn’t the type to pin her ears to bite or move away from having attention and surely that behaviour shows there is still pain there?
 
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ycbm said:
I think you probably should.
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I should have said, I have thought a lot of it but several friends have said she hasn't been handled much in months so not to read into it.

Highmileagecob said:
Good observation on your part, and yes, she is probably trying to tell you something. Is she on pain medication?
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She isn't. None get fed and she won't eat tablets in treats (tried it all before) it has to be syringed which isn't easy either and wouldn't expect other people to try and do it. She looks sound to my eye trotting across the field (she actually has lovely movement) but doesn't mean she isn't painful in her neck and back. The vet is coming back in assess couple of weeks. I think if this is her behaviour after almost 9 months off work it says it all. :(
 
Hormonal Filly said:
I should have said, I have thought a lot of it but several friends have said she hasn't been handled much in months so not to read into it.
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I don't know your mare but I think your friends are wrong to dismiss such obvious signs of unhappiness. Why would she bite you because you touched her back? Does she have past history of doing that when she's fit and well?
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ycbm said:
Why would she bite you because you touched her back? Does she have past history of doing that when she's fit and well?
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Never showed any negative reaction to her back being touched in the 4 years of my ownership. She did start pinning her ears back/biting when her girth area and lower neck area was touched last year, when fit and in work. Oesto and physio were baffled as couldn't feel anything that might cause it. She had a full course of ulcer treatment in Sept - Oct so kind of hoped that behaviour might slide after treatment and time in the field.
 
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