Broken 6yo.. WWYD?

Hormonal Filly said:
Never showed any negative reaction to her back being touched in the 4 years of my ownership. She did start pinning her ears back/biting when her girth area and lower neck area was touched last year, when fit and in work. Oesto and physio were baffled as couldn't feel anything that might cause it. She had a full course of ulcer treatment in Sept - Oct so kind of hoped that behaviour might slide after treatment and time in the field.
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I'm so sorry, you really do seem to be running out of options 😞
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You are the one that can see what is happening, and you have done everything you could to make her comfortable. At least you can discuss with your vet with a clear eye, and push emotion to one side now. Big hug. PS painkillers in a jam sandwich tend to go down fairly quickly. 😁
 
Highmileagecob said:
You are the one that can see what is happening, and you have done everything you could to make her comfortable. At least you can discuss with your vet with a clear eye, and push emotion to one side now. Big hug. PS painkillers in a jam sandwich tend to go down fairly quickly. 😁
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I had a Shire who threw her bute and jam sandwich into her water bucket. I could hear her thinking "Now give that back to me, if you can" :rolleyes:

OP, I'm sorry things are not looking good.
 
Highmileagecob said:
PS painkillers in a jam sandwich tend to go down fairly quickly.
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She won't eat a jam sandwich let alone with anything in. I even tried disguising one small ulcer tablet (they were tasteless as I ended up trying one to find out, the things we do!) in a stud muffin, which is her favourite treat and she still spat it out.

Thank you everyone. X
 
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She had her feet trimmed last weekend, she walked across 3 x 25 acre fields to come in while her field mates were going berserk. She was so well behaved. Happy to go into her stable without a bother, calm as anything. Didn't react to me grooming her all over or feeling her back, neck which is different to how she was a couple of weeks ago in the field. She was grooming me back.

She was good to trim, until the farrier got to the final foot (front right) then she kept pulling back and going down behind, almost like a bow? Even if he picked it up for a couple of seconds. This is something she started doing a year or so ago, even in full work.. its alarm bells to me. It wasn't stress, there must be another reason for it.

The vet is coming out Monday so going to mention it and go from there. 😕
 
Come on to post a update after the vet visiting.

After a walk and trot in a straight line, the vet said straight away all 4 fetlocks drop a lot. The vet then used a gait analysis while she was on the lunge, no lameness but again, dropping fetlocks was noticeable and her "very choppy movement"

Very good range of neck movement, passed neurological tests and flexion tests were negative, she is sound. Locking stifle behind when turning tight, which is likely due to no work and would improve with work so she isn't worried about that. Said she is extremely hyper mobile throughout, vet questioned muscle myopathy and I explained she had been on a diet for a horse with a muscle myopathy until she was turned away as previous vet had questioned this. She advised feeding vitamin E. She confirmed it is a a new sarcoid that has come up between her front legs (never had a sarcoid before, talk about bad luck!)

It sounds like DSLD, but going to get the vet to confirm.

In the vets opinion, this horse should never be schooled or jumped. She could do happy hacking, if she is happy and comfortable. She would advise against retirement in the field but said she doesn't think she is in pain everyday and it is isn't necessarily a death sentence, if she is sweet and easy, someone could hack her. Equally, she supports PTS.

I mean, lots to think about. 😢 If it is DSLD its going to get worse, but she is so happy, full of life. I'm pushing towards some walk hacking and if she is happy, seeing if I can find a loan home locally.
 
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My horse with DSLD / ESPA may not have been in pain all day every day but he wasn't living a pain free life. He became sharp, spooky and dangerous to ride, certainly not suitable as a happy hacker. I think it must have been an intermittent sharp pain as he would shoot forward with his tail and hind quarters tucked under along with quite severe bucking episodes. I retired him and he got rapidly worse, his hind legs gradually dropped further until his fetlocks could nearly touch the ground and he went lame on a front leg as well as the 2 hinds so I pts.
Horses with this condition have false colics, keep trying to sit on stuff to take the weight of their back legs, dig holes to stand at an angle or try to stand with their back legs up on banks. The more time you spend with them, the more you notice the odd behaviour which at first just seems a bit quirky but actually is very sad.

Yours may present differently to mine but think carefully about taking her on the roads in case your vet is mistaken about how painful this condition can be.

I'm very sorry it's a horrible situation.
 
nutjob said:
My horse with DSLD / ESPA may not have been in pain all day every day but he wasn't living a pain free life. He became sharp, spooky and dangerous to ride, certainly not suitable as a happy hacker. I think it must have been an intermittent sharp pain as he would shoot forward with his tail and hind quarters tucked under along with quite severe bucking episodes. I retired him and he got rapidly worse, his hind legs gradually dropped further until his fetlocks could nearly touch the ground and he went lame on a front leg as well as the 2 hinds so I pts.
Horses with this condition have false colics, keep trying to sit on stuff to take the weight of their back legs, dig holes to stand at an angle or try to stand with their back legs up on banks. The more time you spend with them, the more you notice the odd behaviour which at first just seems a bit quirky but actually is very sad.

Yours may present differently to mine but think carefully about taking her on the roads in case your vet is mistaken about how painful this condition can be.

I'm very sorry it's a horrible situation.
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The one I knew was the same. PTS at 7.

I'm so sorry you've got that diagnosis HF
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I believe DSLD can be properly diagnosed via ultra sound - I'm on the FB page & it's a supportive bunch there.

Has the fetlock drop got worse over time? It was very noticeable in the one I knew from the age of 4 (bit lax but not serious) to 7 (obvious) and she also got unpredictable.

Tough call if it is which is why I'd always get a formal diagnosis rather than just hypermobile, which you can help through conditioning.
 
SEL said:
I believe DSLD can be properly diagnosed via ultra sound - I'm on the FB page & it's a supportive bunch there.
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I mean she's had full suspensory ultra sounds with a lameness vet back in October, when he said she had 'very choppy movement, like she has no suspension' and he diagnosed PSD in every limb.

I can see her fetlocks drop a lot looking at videos. Is the DSLD scan any different to the usual suspensory scan?
 
Hormonal Filly said:
Is the DSLD scan any different to the usual suspensory scan?
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No. It's what can be seen on the scan. DSLD shows as a generalised disruption of the ligament not a specific injury site, as it progresses the calcification of the ligament might be seen as the damage / repair process is compromised and even very minor damage to the ligaments is not repaired correctly with collagen fibres but rather with cartilage type none elastic material. My horse scanned normal initially on the 2 front legs but the hinds were reported as totally disrupted.

It's also so unlikely that in a 6yo you would have PSD in all 4 legs, especially when you have done very little work with her.

This is helpful

It's a disease that is normally identified initially by suspensory issues but many other soft tissues can be involved eventually including the heart.
 
Hormonal Filly said:
I mean she's had full suspensory ultra sounds with a lameness vet back in October, when he said she had 'very choppy movement, like she has no suspension' and he diagnosed PSD in every limb.

I can see her fetlocks drop a lot looking at videos. Is the DSLD scan any different to the usual suspensory scan?
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I don't know - I think DSLD is progressive from what I've read so if the drop is getting worse then the diagnosis is likely straightforward.

Just read @nutjob post. Makes sense. With my Appy you could see the damage on a particular part of her ligament and hers hasn't progressed over 6 years.
 
Hormonal Filly said:
In the vets opinion, this horse should never be schooled or jumped. She could do happy hacking, if she is happy and comfortable. She would advise against retirement in the field but said she doesn't think she is in pain everyday and it is isn't necessarily a death sentence, if she is sweet and easy, someone could hack her. Equally, she supports PTS.

I mean, lots to think about. 😢 If it is DSLD its going to get worse, but she is so happy, full of life. I'm pushing towards some walk hacking and if she is happy, seeing if I can find a loan home locally.
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That sounds like a very sensible plan! I think I would do the same to be honest. It doesn't sound like she needs to be PTS tomorrow and she may well be very happy as a hacker for someone if she's happy enough in herself.
 
ihatework said:
With all that going on, I’d put her in a field for 12-18 months, shut my eyes providing she is field sound, holding weight and generally happy. (That’s assuming pts is not your preferred route! It’s a valid one ….)

See if her body sorts itself out.
If it doesn’t either leave in field in retirement or pts.

That’s a lot going on, I wouldn’t be spending a lot of money with the vets at this point.
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This is what I'd do.
 
nutjob said:
No. It's what can be seen on the scan. DSLD shows as a generalised disruption of the ligament not a specific injury site, as it progresses the calcification of the ligament might be seen as the damage / repair process is compromised and even very minor damage to the ligaments is not repaired correctly with collagen fibres but rather with cartilage type none elastic material. My horse scanned normal initially on the 2 front legs but the hinds were reported as totally disrupted.

It's also so unlikely that in a 6yo you would have PSD in all 4 legs, especially when you have done very little work with her.

This is helpful

It's a disease that is normally identified initially by suspensory issues but many other soft tissues can be involved eventually including the heart.
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That’s really helpful, thank you. She is non painful to suspensory palpitation. The report when she had the suspensory scans back on 1st October it said the following on the report.

Moderate bilateral desmitis front suspensory ligaments (LF>RF), proximal third and body, small multiple hypoechoic areas, palmar border bulging, poor fiber pattern. Branches ok.

Moderate proximal susp lig desmitis RH.
enlarged, poor fiber pattern. Branches ok.

It sounds like DLSD to me with the poor fibre pattern 😓 can’t find the report from rescan in November, but he also found poor fibre pattern in the LH.
 
The poor fibre pattern is typical of DSLD also "small multiple hypoechoic areas" may be indicative of a wrong repair process going on leading to the more dense areas. Since LF is worse than RF it's not surprising that you are seeing this as she puts her weight on her worst foot.

Hormonal Filly said:
She was good to trim, until the farrier got to the final foot (front right) then she kept pulling back and going down behind, almost like a bow?
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Mine was unable to even have his feet picked out in his last 3 months let alone have them trimmed. I was very cognisant that he became a high risk for the safety of my farrier as well as myself.
 
nutjob said:
Mine was unable to even have his feet picked out in his last 3 months let alone have them trimmed. I was very cognisant that he became a high risk for the safety of my farrier as well as myself.
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What did he do @nutjob? Bow down? Or was he difficult in general to trim?
 
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Hormonal Filly said:
What did he do @nutjob? Bow down? Or was he difficult in general to trim?
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No, he didn't do that specifically but his worse legs were the hinds not the fronts like your horse. He was difficult to pick up any feet, tricky to lift the hinds up high and couldn't put them on the hoof stand without snatching them away. The fronts he would lean heavily and almost collapse to the ground rather than take his own weight on 3 legs. I couldn't be certain that he wouldn't actually fall.

When he went for the initial lameness work up he couldn't do the flexion test on the hinds as he couldn't/wouldn't lift his legs high enough but he appeared sound otherwise. The vet I used had a pro rider, he nearly decked her, and she felt the same lack of power in the hind quarters that I noticed so he blocked one of the suspensories based on this and the history and he was then very obviously lame.

If you block one of the front suspensories on your horse, this will give you an idea of how bad, or not, she actually is. Bilateral problems are hard to judge.
 
nutjob said:
No, he didn't do that specifically but his worse legs were the hinds not the fronts like your horse. He was difficult to pick up any feet, tricky to lift the hinds up high and couldn't put them on the hoof stand without snatching them away. The fronts he would lean heavily and almost collapse to the ground rather than take his own weight on 3 legs. I couldn't be certain that he wouldn't actually fall.

When he went for the initial lameness work up he couldn't do the flexion test on the hinds as he couldn't/wouldn't lift his legs high enough but he appeared sound otherwise. The vet I used had a pro rider, he nearly decked her, and she felt the same lack of power in the hind quarters that I noticed so he blocked one of the suspensories based on this and the history and he was then very obviously lame.

If you block one of the front suspensories on your horse, this will give you an idea of how bad, or not, she actually is. Bilateral problems are hard to judge.
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So sorry to hear about your gelding. They’re such heart breakers. Did your gelding have dropped fetlocks noticeably when standing?

She doesn’t have that, but I can see in videos her fetlocks drop a lot when she is moving but then again, most of the for sale videos I’ve watched of horses 20-30k drop the same amount.

It still doesn’t make sense why she has poor fibre pattern in all 4 limbs.
 
This is a picture taken after he was diagnosed, all 4 legs were scanned but only the hinds had damage. IMO, the LH looks like the fetlock has dropped (broken forward hoof pastern axis) and the others look OK. This was taken after he was retired and I was trying to get him stabilised in a small area turnout. The most obvious issue could be seen with a slow mo walking video. The hind fetlocks dropped significantly in walk and did a second dip as the hoof was weighted to push off. Many horses have a lot of movement at speed, when turning and jumping but the walk was a give away for mine. He'd earlier had a false colic where I found him on the floor in a lot of pain and had to be admitted to the vet hospital, they couldn't find out what was wrong with him as he wasn't diagnosed at the time and nobody suspected it to be severe pain in his legs. He was also investigated for pin worms and other parasites due to pressing his bum on stuff all the time. All classic symptoms of DSLD once you know about it.

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That is helpful, thank you @nutjob :( What did his scan results show, poor fibre pattern? It would be much easier if there were a test which gave a definite diagnosis of it, on the FB page for DSLD quite a few have said she doesn't have dropped fetlocks standing still.

Funnily enough she does itch her bum a lot but she 'rests' the top of her bum on the door almost to do it. She doesn't itch her tail, its lower down, the sides of her bum sometimes.. so maybe that is a symptom.
 
Hormonal Filly said:
What did his scan results show, poor fibre pattern?
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I don't have the report now as this happened about 10 years ago, but from memory something like, fibres totally disrupted.

Hormonal Filly said:
Funnily enough she does itch her bum a lot but she 'rests' the top of her bum on the door almost to do it. She doesn't itch her tail, its lower down, the sides of her bum sometimes.. so maybe that is a symptom.
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This is a typical symptom, they are trying to rest / sit on something to take some of the weight, also, they like standing with the hind legs up on the banks of stables or digging a hole so that they can stand with the toes down and heels raised.
 
Thank you @nutjob

The new vet has reviewed her scans, although did say another vet’s SL scans are difficult to read as it’s more difficult looking at a screenshot. She can definitely see some degeneration of her suspensory branches, a lot for a rising 7yo so has given a firm diagnosis of DSLD.

I’m pleased I have an answer and a diagnosis.. it explains a lot.

I need to take a few days out to make a decision. X
 
Hormonal Filly said:
Thank you @nutjob

The new vet has reviewed her scans, although did say another vet’s SL scans are difficult to read as it’s more difficult looking at a screenshot. She can definitely see some degeneration of her suspensory branches, a lot for a rising 7yo so has given a firm diagnosis of DSLD.

I’m pleased I have an answer and a diagnosis.. it explains a lot.

I need to take a few days out to make a decision. X
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I am pleased that you have an answer and very sorry about what that answer is.

My friend's DSLD horse got more and more miserable until she put him to rest. My thoughts are with you, it's so very difficult when they are so young.
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ycbm said:
I am pleased that you have an answer and very sorry about what that answer is.

My friend's DSLD horse got more and more miserable until she put him to rest. My thoughts are with you, it's so very difficult when they are so young.
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It really is..

I rode her on a very short walk hack yesterday (as in 10 minutes) she didn’t bat an eyelid at the tack or me getting on.. but she wasn’t exactly keen. My partner walked with us and noticed her fetlocks drop more with a rider on, I’m 55kg so should be within her limits.

She stopped and turned around mid way, she just felt like she really didn’t enjoy it..

I spoke to the vet afterwards and she said to try for 2 weeks and see how she is, considering she has had 8 months off work but I just feel like I know.
 
Hormonal Filly said:
It really is..

I rode her on a very short walk hack yesterday (as in 10 minutes) she didn’t bat an eyelid at the tack or me getting on.. but she wasn’t exactly keen. My partner walked with us and noticed her fetlocks drop more with a rider on, I’m 55kg so should be within her limits.

She stopped and turned around mid way, she just felt like she really didn’t enjoy it..

I spoke to the vet afterwards and she said to try for 2 weeks and see how she is, considering she has had 8 months off work but I just feel like I know.
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Sending you massive hugs and a lot of love - it's a horrible place to be in with such a young horse (or any horse for that matter) x
 
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