Broncing into canter

[Frisket]

New Riders and Owners
Broncing into canter
Thread starterFrisket Start dateToday at 07:09 TagsNone Edit
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Today at 07:09#1
Frisket
Active Member
Hiya! Im looking for some reassurance I haven't just ruined a 20 year partnership -

I bought a five year old Connemara X Cob. Gave him two days to settle in and rode him in the indoor first time last night - was fine in walk and trot, a bit hollow and refused to round off but I assumed this was because he was taking it all in and being nosey. I was bending him around a 20m circle at trot and he seemed to move sideways rapidly then burst into a frantic bronc/bucking fiasco and I went flying.

He immediately stopped when I came off and walked up to me and stood by me until I dusted myself off and hopped back on. Again walk trot fine, then asked for a canter once feeling comfortable and BOOM bronc buck fall off. Again he stopped and stood by me and waited for me to get up and on. This time just walked him out and got off to finish on a good note.

Does this sound like pain? This saddle is old and not been fitted; my old horse would chuck me off but he was a smidge more work aversive and would buck and dip his shoulder once in an attempt to send me flying. Im not going to ride again until I get a saddler out (also think his bit might have been a bit low but I was a tad excited as it's been three years since losing my old horse).

Does this sound like an ill fitting tack issue? Saddle bit etc? Bit might have been a bit low in his mouth, as well, but sorted that now. Just looking for reassurance I've not ruined a genuinely sweet pony for life and broken a two decade partnership before it began ?

 

[Goldenstar]

Yes that sounds like pain .
You need to talk to your vet .

 

[Sossigpoker]

Yes this sounds like pain. Especially as the horse was hollow to start with. You need a saddle fitter to start with and don't ride until you have well fitted tack sorted out. Also get a vet to check him over.

 

[Scotsbadboy]

Yes, pain and i imagine the same went for your other horse as well if you describe them as 'work aversive'

 

[sportsmansB]

Don't be too downhearted
Get all the checks done (saddle vet etc) but it doesn't stop you spending time getting to know one another, longreining, lunging, walking out in hand, etc. You can build the bond outside of the riding first.
Just don't let the pony get too fresh with little work in the meantime!

 

[ownedbyaconnie]

Was he vetted? Did you try him or buy unseen? If you did try him did you do w/t/c and what was he like?

I'd get a vet to come check, get a saddler out (why are you riding in a saddle that hasn't been fitted?), dentist and then physio. A full MOT essentially.

 

[Frisket]

I forgot in my time away from the equestrian community that it was so judgemental! Remind me not to be publically upset about something again and made to feel worse. Top notch guys!

But thank you to those few people who actually answered helpfully! Especially sportsmanB. We've been bonding in the stable and going to focus on ground work while we wait - the impending freshness worries me a little ? at least he's only 14.2 and the falls don't hurt that much ...

 

[Frisket]

And yes he was tried by myself and vetted and passed said vetting. He was wonderful on both tries; his canter transition was if anything a little "slow" in that he fell into it (young cob type clumsiness I assume)

 

[Lois Lame]

I don't know if it's pain related but others feel very sure so maybe it is.

I'm surprised though that he was so kind as to come back to you afterwards. I was once trying a welsh x TB. I had a feeling he might buck if I cantered, so I walked and trotted only, but guess what? He bucked like a bronco from the trot. I was not impressed. Surprisingly I didn't fall off but when he stopped (after I pulled up his head) I got off and had no qualms about ending on a poor note.

His owner wondered if he had a sore back. I felt that perhaps he did. If If I'd fallen off though, I think he would have been very pleased and left me in the sawdust.

 

[L&M]

I forgot in my time away from the equestrian community that it was so judgemental! Remind me not to be publically upset about something again and made to feel worse. Top notch guys!

But thank you to those few people who actually answered helpfully! Especially sportsmanB. We've been bonding in the stable and going to focus on ground work while we wait - the impending freshness worries me a little ? at least he's only 14.2 and the falls don't hurt that much ...

I am confused - where has there been any judging or nastiness?! You asked for some advice and from what I have seen that has been what you have been given......what an odd reaction?!

At the end of the day this is a forum - when we ask for advice/opinions, we also have to be prepared for replies that we may not agree with, but the majority of people on this forum only want to help, so give them chance!

 

[ownedbyaconnie]

I'm surprised though that he was so kind as to come back to you afterwards. I was once trying a welsh x TB. I had a feeling he might buck if I cantered, so I walked and trotted only, but guess what? He bucked like a bronco from the trot. I was not impressed. Surprisingly I didn't fall off but when he stopped (after I pulled up his head) I got off and had no qualms about ending on a poor note.

His owner wondered if he had a sore back. I felt that perhaps he did. If If I'd fallen off though, I think he would have been very pleased and left me in the sawdust.

My typical native mare pony is a pro at the drop shoulder and pee off in the opposite direction in 0.1 seconds when I start asking for something she finds a bit more difficult when jumping. On the occasions I do end up on the floor she walks over to me, whickers at me and nudges me with her muzzle as if to say silly thing what are you doing down there.

 

[Frisket]

The assumption my old exceptionally loved horse that I lost to a completely traumatising bought of colic was in pain - to be honest, hurtful, considering the only thing I mentioned about him was an occasional buck and dip and that he was lazy. And the comment of "why are you riding in an unfitted saddle" - to me is judgemental vs an error I've clearly come to realise so why hammer the point?

And yes the pony was very sweet - that's part of the reason I am leaning towards tack being an issue as I would have assumed if it was to get out of work or due to freshness he would have not stood so calmly to wait for me to get my bearings!

 

[ownedbyaconnie]

The assumption my old exceptionally loved horse that I lost to a completely traumatising bought of colic was in pain - to be honest, hurtful, considering the only thing I mentioned about him was an occasional buck and dip and that he was lazy. And the comment of "why are you riding in an unfitted saddle" - to me is judgemental vs an error I've clearly come to realise so why hammer the point?

And yes the pony was very sweet - that's part of the reason I am leaning towards tack being an issue as I would have assumed if it was to get out of work or due to freshness he would have not stood so calmly to wait for me to get my bearings!

So you also think the saddle is the problem...why is my comment judgy? I was confused as to why you'd be riding in a saddle that hadn't been fitted and asked if there was a reason behind it?

 

[Frisket]

So you also think the saddle is the problem...why is my comment judgy? I was confused as to why you'd be riding in a saddle that hadn't been fitted and asked if there was a reason behind it?

It felt judgemental to me as someone who is currently very upset and very bruised, and not a particularly helpful comment in the long run. As in; I've asked if it could be the tack and if it could be a pain response as the saddle is not fitted and have also said I'm not going to ride again until fitting. So being asked "well why did you do it" is a little judgemental to me. Obviously people have different thresholds for what they find judgemental and with my emotions raw at the mo, that's mine!

 

[ownedbyaconnie]

It felt judgemental to me as someone who is currently very upset and very bruised, and not a particularly helpful comment in the long run. As in; I've asked if it could be the tack and if it could be a pain response as the saddle is not fitted and have also said I'm not going to ride again until fitting. So being asked "well why did you do it" is a little judgemental to me. Obviously people have different thresholds for what they find judgemental and with my emotions raw at the mo, that's mine!

I’m honestly sorry you are upset, I have actually had a horse that was perfect when I tried and a terror when I got her home so know where you are coming from. But I can’t help how you perceive the written word over the internet. You’ve taken your own interpretation of what I said. I was asking why you were riding in a saddle that you have admitted hasn’t been fitted. It didn’t make sense to me hence asking to understand your reasoning.

 

[sbloom]

Bronking into canter is classic "saddle moving forwards and/or tipping back", first thing I'd check. It is pain and restriction.

 

[sportsmansB]

To be honest I have always been a big advocate of the get up on the new horse asap and don't fanny about school of thought. I have definitely ridden horses in saddles which were not personally fitted to them by a saddle fitter yet, though I would consider myself experienced enough to pad up etc and have large selection to choose from so I guess I'm lucky in that regard. (ETA: I know this isn't the best route)

So, anyway OP, you have lots of time now. If you are lunging, I would recommend using the time to get him really on your voice aids. Its such a massive help when riding especially on a new horse where buttons are not always where we expect them. Will also help the slow / falling into canter trans and give you more confidence asking for it when you are back on board.
I agree if he was currently fresh he probs would have pee'd off bucking around the school after you were ditched, so try and keep it that way- lots of turnout and not too much food until you are able to exercise him properly!

 

[McFluff]

I would do the following:

• Not ride until saddler has been out - but spend time with him grooming, walking out, in-hand work
• Speak to the vet that did the vetting - if possible even get them to come out and see him (not sure of time between vetting and now, so this would impact how I would approach this) - alternatively get own vet out (if it wasn't your vet that vetted him)
• Have a look at the saddle - is the tree sound? how badly does it fit (is it level, pinching etc.)? If you can see an obvious bit where it could hurt, then this is your most likely 'answer' - there are really good videos on YouTube that you can use to do these initial assessments yourself (as much for your own education as anything else)
• Feel across his back and watch his reactions as you press down - does anywhere seem sore or tender? Does it feel even? Any lumps or bumps you didn't notice before?
• If your area allows it, get a physio out to check his muscles and general condition
• Speak to the previous owners - how fit is he? has he done this before? what routine and feed did they have him on?
• I'd also consider getting a riding lesson or two on a different horse - just in case it was something I was doing that was contributing
• I'd also consider getting an instructor/trainer to ride him first time back and I would make sure I had a few lessons lined up

In my experience confidence is fragile (in horse and rider), so I'd be doing everything I could to prevent this happening again. Also, he is 5 and it sounds like you want to keep him for life, so I'd spend the time/money now on saddler, vet and lessons to get back on track.
Good luck.

 

[Scotsbadboy]

OP my comment was a bit hit and run, my apologies i was heading straight into a Teams call that I've been dreading (it wasnt too bad in the end!) Sorry to hear you lost your horse, thats very sad and i hope this new one goes some way to help you get happiness back in your life.
This time of the year is a nightmare for saddle fitting as most are coming out of winter leaner with less topline etc. A traditional fitted saddle cant fit a horse 100% perfectly 365 days a year IMO so they do need constantly checking and adjusting with pads/ gullets etc. Keep the faith, you'll get there

 

[Frisket]

I've got the saddler coming out on Tuesday morning for a fitting. I'll make sure to lunge him over the weekend in the same environment that he'll be worked in.

He's honestly so sweet on the ground, very good natured pony I really hope I haven't scarred us both for life!

 

[Frisket]

I would do the following:

• Not ride until saddler has been out - but spend time with him grooming, walking out, in-hand work
• Speak to the vet that did the vetting - if possible even get them to come out and see him (not sure of time between vetting and now, so this would impact how I would approach this) - alternatively get own vet out (if it wasn't your vet that vetted him)
• Have a look at the saddle - is the tree sound? how badly does it fit (is it level, pinching etc.)? If you can see an obvious bit where it could hurt, then this is your most likely 'answer' - there are really good videos on YouTube that you can use to do these initial assessments yourself (as much for your own education as anything else)
• Feel across his back and watch his reactions as you press down - does anywhere seem sore or tender? Does it feel even? Any lumps or bumps you didn't notice before?
• If your area allows it, get a physio out to check his muscles and general condition
• Speak to the previous owners - how fit is he? has he done this before? what routine and feed did they have him on?
• I'd also consider getting a riding lesson or two on a different horse - just in case it was something I was doing that was contributing
• I'd also consider getting an instructor/trainer to ride him first time back and I would make sure I had a few lessons lined up

In my experience confidence is fragile (in horse and rider), so I'd be doing everything I could to prevent this happening again. Also, he is 5 and it sounds like you want to keep him for life, so I'd spend the time/money now on saddler, vet and lessons to get back on track.
Good luck.

Thank you so much! The vetting was only just over a week ago; he was vetted and pretty much moved in a couple days later. I definitely want a trainer to ride him the first time we're back on track - I'll definitely ask around my yard for tips on how to broach that!

 

[ILuvCowparsely]

New Riders and Owners
Broncing into canter
Thread starterFrisket Start dateToday at 07:09 TagsNone Edit
Unwatch•••
Today at 07:09#1
Frisket
Active Member
Hiya! Im looking for some reassurance I haven't just ruined a 20 year partnership -

I bought a five year old Connemara X Cob. Gave him two days to settle in and rode him in the indoor first time last night - was fine in walk and trot, a bit hollow and refused to round off but I assumed this was because he was taking it all in and being nosey. I was bending him around a 20m circle at trot and he seemed to move sideways rapidly then burst into a frantic bronc/bucking fiasco and I went flying.

He immediately stopped when I came off and walked up to me and stood by me until I dusted myself off and hopped back on. Again walk trot fine, then asked for a canter once feeling comfortable and BOOM bronc buck fall off. Again he stopped and stood by me and waited for me to get up and on. This time just walked him out and got off to finish on a good note.

Does this sound like pain? This saddle is old and not been fitted; my old horse would chuck me off but he was a smidge more work aversive and would buck and dip his shoulder once in an attempt to send me flying. Im not going to ride again until I get a saddler out (also think his bit might have been a bit low but I was a tad excited as it's been three years since losing my old horse).

Does this sound like an ill fitting tack issue? Saddle bit etc? Bit might have been a bit low in his mouth, as well, but sorted that now. Just looking for reassurance I've not ruined a genuinely sweet pony for life and broken a two decade partnership before it began ?

I would check with your vet first, then chiro and get saddle checked. This sound pain related

I would get chiro too as if he has been using that saddle he made need a chiro otherwise you may find yourself flying again. In this order

Check with vet.
Chiro
Saddle

I would not ride a horse without chiro now after bronking, I learnt the hard way. Fractured Humerus off work 9 months

 

[eggs]

As other have already said it could very well be a pain / poor tack fit response.

Hopefully you are at a yard where he can get a decent amount of turnout which will help with any freshness. He does sound to be a genuinely sweet horse so time spent with him on the ground should be enjoyable for you both. If he doesn't bronc into canter when lunged without the saddle then I think you should both be back on tract pretty soon.

 

[stormox]

It will not have scarred your horse for life. We all have miss haps and get over them.

Your horse is only 5 - so has only really been ridden for max of one season. Maybe he hasn't done much cantering, or not much in the school.
I have known quite a few horses have a buck when starting canter, also after a jump. I dont think it always means pain. Had he done much cantering or jumping before you got him?
Get his saddle and bridle checked and maybe spend a week in walk or trot before you ask for canter? Or give him his first canter outside behind another horse.

 

[fetlock]

Is he doing this on both reins, or just one?

I'd add a good farrier to the list too.

I had a young horse who was newly backed when I bought him and he also did this, but on one rein only. Turned out he had a slight misalignment on the side he had the problem cantering on. A few months of of remedial shoeing (and walking only during that time) sorted him out.

 

[Goldenstar]

Rather than wasting energy on whether people have been unkind to you just get the vet to your horse .

 

[Frisket]

Rather than wasting energy on whether people have been unkind to you just get the vet to your horse .

Sorry for being emotional, I forgot that wasn't allowed in the equestrian community ???

Anyway, as an update, re fitted his bridle and hopped on bareback and was wonderful.

So thanks to all y'all with the constructive feedback!

 

[Caracorn]

It could be teeth problems as I had a sec c with the same problem and that was the problem. If it’s not pain, it’s probably naughtiness, do lots of trotting before hand and tire them out, then have a neck strap so if they do try it you can stay on. If they do try it have a harshish bit like a gag, keep the head up and ride them on.

 

[Frisket]

It could be teeth problems as I had a sec c with the same problem and that was the problem. If it’s not pain, it’s probably naughtiness, do lots of trotting before hand and tire them out, then have a neck strap so if they do try it you can stay on. If they do try it have a harshish bit like a gag, keep the head up and ride them on.

I suspect it was a tack related disaster. Punched some new holes in my cheek pieces and we're both happier with the bit fit. I admit I didn't canter bareback because given his last performance I decided I didn't want to die, but he rounded really nicely in the trot and stood perfectly stock still to mount. He was a little fidgety with the saddle (mounting) but I had assumed that was due to being in a new location.

Fitter is coming on Tuesday and I am more optimistic that I haven't scarred him for life. Did some ground work today and he was wonderful and listening well.

 

[Kaylum]

All good advice. Did you buy from a dealer or private? If private I would go back and check with the owner what they think.

Secondly if the horse is not balanced or fit a 20 metre circle can be quite tight.

Saddler should be able to help.

I dont think anyone was judging just helping.