Bucking bronco horse - help! Should I sell him?

[{108361}]

Hi, Ive got a just-turned-6 ISH who Ive only had for 4 months. He's been great up until a month ago when he went bananas bucking and bronc-ing in canter on a hack. I got dumped and he ended up cantering down the A47.

It seemed out of character so I had saddle/teeth/back checked. Turns out he had a bad back and the chiropractor said it was most likely the cause of him going nuts. Two visits form a horse chiro and endless excercises and his back has the all clear. Saddle and teeth are ok too.

Today I cantered hm for the first time since my accident on him. He went nuts again -rear then buck then rear then buck, like a lunatic. Sat most of it but when he couldn't get me off that way he spun, dropped a shoulder and dumped me and bolted home.

My question is what do I do now? Im going to either lose my nerve or get seriously injured if this happens every time he wants to go home? Should I contact the dealer I got him from and ask if she will sell him? No one is going to buy him if he does this. Is it something that can be fixed? I fear not as once he wants you off he just keeps at it until he gets you off. Im so upset but got to be sensible about my own safety.

 

[Rosiejazzandpia]

You are right to be sensible for your own safety and the safety of your horse. If you have had his back/teeth/saddle checked it is likely that he remebers the pain from the saddle and that the bucking is his response to remembered pain. If he is bucking and going nuts is there an obvious cause? A scary hacking route/pigs/flapping bags etc?
If not then I would get your instructor or a trained pro to handle his behaviour before you ride again.

 

[Queenbee]

Agree that you are right to think of your own safety but also please think of the safety of others. I would not be considering selling or getting a dealer to sell a horse that behaved fine for 3 months then started exhibiting the behavior you mention unless the cause had been identified, eliminated and that behaviour had been resolved. You say saddle, back, teeth and the chiro identified back problem and treated... did you have the vet out? If the chiro identified a sore back, fixed this and then the horse continued the behaviour I would suspect that something is causing the sore back and want a vet to further investigate before making any decisions. Be sure what you are dealing with first before having anyone ride or buy the horse would be my advice. Just because the Chiro worked on the sore back does not mean that the cause of the issue has been addressed.

 

[scrapster]

I had one like this and he’s now sadly retired. Please get him vet checked. Even then we had vet checks all was well
For a while and then it happened again. Bone scans showed multiple
Issues that we couldn’t fix. Fingers crossed for you, but please think about passing him on, unless someone investigated the issues he will just be passed on and on and labelled dangerous as mine was, when he is just in pain. Good luck xx

 

[BSL]

How much exercise had he had before the most recent bucking session. I totally agree with vet checks, tack, teeth etc. However I do believe sometimes a horse can be plain naughty. Four months is not long to get to know each other. This time of year, they all feel "well". Maybe have a few lessons and try canter work in school first. In the end only you know if this is the horse for you. Good luck.

 

[Red-1]

After 3 months of behaving well and then two bucking sessions, with a reason for the first... Of course you should be careful, but if it were me it would be rather early to sell.

To me, a chiropractor would be used once the issue that caused the sore back had been identified. It could be saddle fit. Even if you have had a saddle fitter I would look further and have another. I would have the vet, a lower limb lameness or even ulcers can cause the horse to hold itself atypically and cause a sore back.

I also agree that horses can be plain fresh and get top side of a rider. I would then have a pro ride the horse and get him out and about; hacking and to shows. Loads of riding alone and in company.

I would also remove from any hard feed and lunge before riding to take the edge off, and not ride out until you are cantering in an arena safely.

 

[Ruby's Mum]

Absolutely echo other posters. Get him checked thoroughly, any sudden changes in behaviour for me would immediately get me to get them checked "from head to tail". Once you have had him checked out and he's had an all clear then get a Pro rider to ride him as if it is just the memory of the discomfort and pain then you do need someone to ride him through it. He was/is indicating something is wrong to you, you need to get it sorted, selling him just puts someone else at risk and doesn't solve the issue for him.

 

[Flicker]

Please get a vet to check him. ‘Rear buck rear’ indicates ‘get off NOW’, which is most often pain related.
If he’s 100% ok after a vet has checked him, you are looking at serious behavioural issues.
Irrespective of either scenario, selling him before you get to the root of the problem is unfair on the horse and the buyer.

 

[AmyMay]

Obviously a vet is the way to go in the first instance. But the behaviour sounds extreme.

How was the horse advertised?

Reading your other posts - I'd be sending the horse back.

 

[bubsqueaks]

Hi, Ive got a just-turned-6 ISH who Ive only had for 4 months. He's been great up until a month ago when he went bananas bucking and bronc-ing in canter on a hack. I got dumped and he ended up cantering down the A47.

It seemed out of character so I had saddle/teeth/back checked. Turns out he had a bad back and the chiropractor said it was most likely the cause of him going nuts. Two visits form a horse chiro and endless excercises and his back has the all clear. Saddle and teeth are ok too.

Today I cantered hm for the first time since my accident on him. He went nuts again -rear then buck then rear then buck, like a lunatic. Sat most of it but when he couldn't get me off that way he spun, dropped a shoulder and dumped me and bolted home.

My question is what do I do now? Im going to either lose my nerve or get seriously injured if this happens every time he wants to go home? Should I contact the dealer I got him from and ask if she will sell him? No one is going to buy him if he does this. Is it something that can be fixed? I fear not as once he wants you off he just keeps at it until he gets you off. Im so upset but got to be sensible about my own safety.

Oh dear we found ourselves with exact same circumstances 4 months in with daughter being bronced off - turned out to be glandular ulcers - its a classic reaction with them trying to get away from the acid splash & also well known that it occurs when you go from trot to canter - ours was a long road with 3 rounds of treatment - 4 scopes - then off to instructors for reschooling but sadly they have flared up again & we are now turning him away for up to a year to see if that helps - good luck its a horrible situation to be in but youre not alone.

 

[blood_magik]

One of mine did similar, going for weeks between bucking fits.
Thought it was ulcers, scoped and then treated him but it continued. turns out he has kissing spine.

Get the vet out.

 

[{108361}]

Thank you for your replies.

I have had the vet out to check him and he was vetted when I bought him too. Both couldn't see any problems.

He is young and fit and I suspect this is a naughty streak, though I could be wrong as I still haven't had enough time to really know the horse. He is extremely clever (one of the cleverest horses Ive come across) which I don't think helps if it is naughtiness.

I wouldn't dream of selling him without being fully clear and honest about his behaviour and I know that I will make a huge financial loss.

He can only really go back to the dealer or sold to someone that is capable of dealing with his issues (if this is due to naughty behaviour).

Im going to ask around and see if I can find someone pro who deals with this type of stuff and get some second opinions.

My bloody shoulder is killing me this morning - I so lucky I didn't break anything yesterday, or worse.

 

[blood_magik]

Mine wasn’t convinced initially either - if the horse has been checked and the behaviour has continued since I would push for a full work up.

My vet had seen our KS horse three times and it was only when I asked the vet to X-ray we found the issue.

Your other option is to send to a pro to see if the horse behaves the same way with them. Or take the financial hit and send him back - it’s not worth hurting yourself.

 

[TheMule]

Unless your vet has x-ray eyes or can see though the horse's abdominal wall, they have no idea that your horse is 'fine'
Do the right thing by the horse and get it checked out. Or take the case up with the dealer, but I wouldn't expect much joy there after this amount of time. You can't sell the horse, you need to solve the problem

 

[Hallo2012]

cantering in a group is a likely cause of exploding in a young fresh horse.

then he has time off.

then explodes again in first canter.

just sounds over fed and under worked to me tbh.

if you have done the basic checks and he seems happy in all other ways i would get a pro on him out hacking and see what happens.

 

[HeyMich]

It sounds to me like he's in pain.

A quick vet check and a vetting aren't going to see problems such as KS or ulcers etc. Please get a proper vet work up with x-rays (back, hocks, SI etc) and gastro-scoping if needed.

Unfortunately, if this behaviour is repeated too often, it will be come his go-to response. That would be dangerous, and nearly impossible for you to sell him or send him back with a clear conscience.

 

[pennyturner]

Throwing a buck going into canter is quite common behaviour in a young horse. If the rider reacts by shortening, rather than kicking on to 'flatten out' the buck, it can easily turn into explosive rearing/bucking.

Not saying that's the case here, but worth mentioning, as many 'normal' horses get labelled with problems which could be reduced or eliminated by a more experienced rider.

 

[scats]

Sorry to hear you are having problems and I completely understand about your safety. No horse is worth getting injured for.

Does he lunge? Could you pop him on the lunge and ask for canter and see what you get? Then perhaps get on in the school (or an enclosed space) if he seems ok. I would wear a body protector though, just in case.

Has this literally come out of nowhere? Previously, has he been a little sharp or prone to a humped, tense back when being ridden?

Unfortunately these issues are rarely easy to figure out and can become costly and time consuming. You’ve obviously done initial pain checks, but there may well be something going on that only xrays or a scan would find. Is the horse insured?

 

[Hallo2012]

Throwing a buck going into canter is quite common behaviour in a young horse. If the rider reacts by shortening, rather than kicking on to 'flatten out' the buck, it can easily turn into explosive rearing/bucking.

Not saying that's the case here, but worth mentioning, as many 'normal' horses get labelled with problems which could be reduced or eliminated by a more experienced rider.

i agree with this. how many nappers/buckers/rearers are just frustrated and would never had gone so far with someone who laughed kicked and patted..............

 

[Queenbee]

cantering in a group is a likely cause of exploding in a young fresh horse.

then he has time off.

then explodes again in first canter.

just sounds over fed and under worked to me tbh.

if you have done the basic checks and he seems happy in all other ways i would get a pro on him out hacking and see what happens.

I may be wrong but I didn't see anything about cantering in a group in OP's post, I may have missed it but pretty sure I didn't.

Again, I would get the vet out for full work up and thorough investigation - including x-ray's, scoping etc.

The horse passed a vet check (which is only really valid for the day) and three months later after good behavior started to behave like this. OP you need to get to the bottom of this issue, if it is naughtiness I will eat my hat, it sounds nothing like naughtiness or sheer devilment no matter how intelligent your horse is it sounds like a classic pain reaction to me.

 

[pixie27]

Throwing a buck going into canter is quite common behaviour in a young horse. If the rider reacts by shortening, rather than kicking on to 'flatten out' the buck, it can easily turn into explosive rearing/bucking.

Not saying that's the case here, but worth mentioning, as many 'normal' horses get labelled with problems which could be reduced or eliminated by a more experienced rider.

Agree with this. If you've scoped and had back x-rays, then you either need to learn how to ride through it, or get someone on who will. Mine is a bucker and it's taken a long time (and a lot of confidence wobbles) to get to the phase where he just gets booted through any bucking. He stops as soon as he's told to go forwards. But this is only cos I know it's behavioural and not pain. If I wasn't sure, I'd be getting full investigations run.

 

[ycbm]

i agree with this. how many nappers/buckers/rearers are just frustrated and would never had gone so far with someone who laughed kicked and patted..............

I don't understand how, with your personal experiences, you can write advice suggesting people should kick on and ignore horses giving every indication that they are in pain.

It's perfectly clear now that we have better diagnostics, that strong riders in the past have been able to convince horses to work through pain. Ulcers, kissing spine and bilateral PSD being possibly the three main culprits. In this day and age, surely pain should be ruled out before the strong rider approach is taken?

OP, I think your horse needs his back x rayed to rule out kissing spines.

 

[ycbm]

Have people suggesting this horse only has behavioural issues missed this in the initial post

he had a bad back

???

It doesn't seem from the info so far that it has been identified WHY the horse had a bad back. And until it is identified, then it's not possible to say that this horse is not in pain.

 

[xDundryx]

Agree with others that there could be a medical issue from what you've described but only a full work up will detect anything. On the flip side if all medical avenues have been covered it could be young/fresh/hard feed/spring grass/ clever horse pushing the boundaries/etc one or a mix of all of these scenarios.

I've a young TB who (has been full checked and everything regularly checked) can have moments like this especially since the grass has come through, sun is shining and he's incredibly full of himself to ride some days. Becomes frustrated if you hold him back on the bridleways, stops, spins and threatens to rear or broncs if he doesn't get his own way. When he starts to get het up I give him a growl and send him forward in trot until our manners return.

Medical tests then a pro to come and ride him for a couple of weeks may be a good way to go.

 

[Queenbee]

Have people suggesting this horse only has behavioural issues missed this in the initial post




???

It doesn't seem from the info so far that it has been identified WHY the horse had a bad back. And until it is identified, then it's not possible to say that this horse is not in pain.

^^ this 100% ^^

 

[Hallo2012]

I don't understand how, with your personal experiences, you can write advice suggesting people should kick on and ignore horses giving every indication that they are in pain.

It's perfectly clear now that we have better diagnostics, that strong riders in the past have been able to convince horses to work through pain. Ulcers, kissing spine and bilateral PSD being possibly the three main culprits. In this day and age, surely pain should be ruled out before the strong rider approach is taken?

OP, I think your horse needs his back x rayed to rule out kissing spines.

because shes's had quite a lot of checks and he's only done it twice, both times in similar circumstances and the second time after a break.

if he was doing it in walk, or escalating, or doing it over and over and over again from word go then its very different ............but he isnt.

i got a more pro pro on mine and it made no diff, i would be interested to see what a pro makes of OP horse and i think thats a legit suggestion.

the trouble with going immediately down the route of OMG hes in pain is that vets WILL find something regardless of it being the issue so i personally need to be clear in my head the issue is not of my own creation first and i think OP also needs to know this.

 

[Queenbee]

because shes's had quite a lot of checks and he's only done it twice, both times in similar circumstances and the second time after a break.

if he was doing it in walk, or escalating, or doing it over and over and over again from word go then its very different ............but he isnt.

i got a more pro pro on mine and it made no diff, i would be interested to see what a pro makes of OP horse and i think thats a legit suggestion.

the trouble with going immediately down the route of OMG hes in pain is that vets WILL find something regardless of it being the issue so i personally need to be clear in my head the issue is not of my own creation first and i think OP also needs to know this.

no she has not, she has had basic checks - saddle, teeth, chiro. Chiro identified pain, gave some basic chiro treatment and exercises. Not one of these checks could have identified the cause of the pain, no diagnosis has been made.

Horse passes initial vet

horse fine for 3 months ridden work


Horse exploded

basic checks made, pain found

pain treated

cause not found or treated

horse ridden - horse exploded again

horse clearly still in pain

cause of pain still as yet undiagnosed

its not rocket science get vet and properly investigate to diagnose cause

 

[shortstuff99]

I see the OP is from the Peterborough area and bought her horse from a dealer. There is an extremely notorious dealer (well known on here) that is from that area. If the horse is from there then yes it probably does have a whole host of issues, but if not I would get a full vet work up and if that is clear then perhaps an opinion from a pro.

 

[AmyMay]

I suspect that the horse did not arrive 'hunting fit' in February, just lean.

Good food, good grass and hey presto - true colours start to emerge.

 

[Hallo2012]

no she has not, she has had basic checks - saddle, teeth, chiro. Chiro identified pain, gave some basic chiro treatment and exercises. Not one of these checks could have identified the cause of the pain, no diagnosis has been made.

Horse passes initial vet

horse fine for 3 months ridden work


Horse exploded

basic checks made, pain found

pain treated

cause not found or treated

horse ridden - horse exploded again

horse clearly still in pain

cause of pain still as yet undiagnosed

its not rocket science get vet and properly investigate to diagnose cause

most horses that do any form of ridden work do have twinges and tweaks, rarely does any horse go without ever needing attention to the back,neck,poll etc.
i dont find it abnormal that the horse has some stiff or sore areas(has it been clarified what was sore and how badly? i am assuming not bad enough for the chiro to recommend vet intervention)

so we assume the back is a small niggle, saddle and teeth ok. i would still want a pro opinion of the horse, if only to give a vet a clearer picture from a more experienced rider.

im not suggesting someone rides it for hours or beats it black and blue just that a better rider hops on to see.