Bucking Child's Pony

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SaucyMare

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I have a 7 year old daughter and an 11:2 Welsh Section A mare.

Last spring my little girl came off lead-rein (then aged 6) and spent the summer cantering around and jumping little courses all on their own. Although the pony is rather lazy (like driving a car with the handbrake on), with a lot of leg action - the pair of them got by. They went off to Pony Club Camp and all in all had a fab summer.

Then the winter came - and yard rules say everything has to be stabled at night from 1st October. This we didn't have a problem with - but it seems the pony did. As thats when the problems seemed to start.

Since the beginning of winter the pony has been a total little she-devil. Barely moving forward at all, and bucking like there is no tomorrow - mostly from a stand still. We have had everything checked, teeth, back, saddle, she's had a nice rub down by the physio - everything.

She is rugged up (to keep her clean and to stop her rubbing herself raw from sweetitch), not clipped, not fed - just hay. She is out in a big field in a friendly herd for at least 9 hours a day. But she just seems to be totally angry about being ridden.

She is usually OK for bigger riders - which are really rather too big for her, but not for her tiny lightweight jockey.

My daughter has grown a bit so we have recently dropped her stirrups down a hole which appears to have helped with getting the pony moving, but she is still bucking - 4-5 bucks (sometimes up to 8) in a row at a time - with half rears thrown in inbetween for good measure. Luckily, it appears that my daughter has a good seat, because as yet the pony has not dislodged her (with the help of a balance rein), but she is losing confidence and is now saying she wants a new "nicer" pony, because she cannot do anything on this one. Which I must say she is totally right about.

Does anybody have any suggestions? I am totally at my wits end.

Or is it best to just move the pony on (she is a total angel on the lead rein) and get my little girl another pony?
 
At 11.2 she might be quite difficult to move on. You don't want to pass on something which might injure another child. You don't say how old she is - might she be getting a bit stiff and sore? As well as checking with your instructor it might also be worth asking the vet for a work up. Ulcers, ovarian cysts, kissing spines? Cushings? The loss of back fat makes them behave like this sometimes - certainly did our old welsh Sec A. All sorts of things might be causing pain - especially if she is otherwise OK to handle.
What about feed? Might she do better on a barley & molasses free regime? I wasn't a big fan of the feed = behaviors thing until we changed my daughter's mad Appie's feed. He is an entirely different horse. Might she bit a bit too full of herself?
Clipping might help. If she's a bit too warm she might object to being ridden because she knows it makes her uncomfortable. Sounds like you don't have a choice but to rug is she needs protection from rubbing - so perhaps a clip to help her not get too warm when worked?

Sorry - quite a lot of suggestions!!
 
I would have her legs looked at. She may be getting stiff from being stabled.
This is possible indicated by only bucking with her lightest jockey, she may not be able to actually buck and rear with much bigger riders so just carries on with what she is asked.
Are the beginner riders on a lead rein?
It may just be behavioural, she has learnt that she can get away with it with a smaller rider.
What is she like to handle on the ground? has she got more moody and cross? That can be an indication as to if she is in pain or stressed making her whole personality different. Thats a bit rambling and I dont know if it makes sense...
 
The pony will be 8 in May. She is only fed hay plus whatever she can find in the fields, but is still pretty podgy. I am at a yard with many experienced people and equine professionals, but everyone is totally baffled.
 
I'd get another pony, pdq! As long as you have tried all the obvious options, such as saddle fit, teeth, back etc, then it's not worth your daughter losing her confidence.

If the pony is good on the lead rein, then at least you can be honest and she should find a good home.

How much longer before you can turn out again? Given the weather I'd have thought 9 hour turnout was pretty good, and for a young pony being in for 15 hours or so isn't that dreadful.

Out of interest, have you tried lunging her first (not with child on I hasten to add!).
 
Just a naughty pony being mean to a tiny tot in my mind. If the pony behaves on the lead rein and with stronger riders on it would suggest there are no physical problems.

I would lunge until the pony wants to stop and then do plenty more before putting the child on board. An overcheck might stop the pony getting it's head down to buck. Once the habit is in place I think it could be difficult to break and means the pony is just not trustworthy with a tiny rider. It's doesn't take much to strip the child's confidence away and a painful fall could shatter it for good.

There is a little section A with me, he is only 6 and a paragon of virtue, but since we have been swamped he has been coming in over night. He only has hay but he is sharp and has had a buck with his little jockey (5 yr old), thankfully is was only one buck and in a straight line, he has become bargy and rude too. Ridden for half an hour on Saturday and Sunday, being stabled, windy days etc all add to likely bad behaviour. Roll on Spring !
 
We don't have anywhere to lunge at the moment - not allowed to lunge in the school. But she trots around like an angel until the rider gets on.

Some days are better than others and we think we've had a breakthrough and then a few days later she's wicked again.

It's the fact that they had such a good summer together and achieved so much, then the sudden change to this furious little creature I find so bewildering. It was like somebody had flicked a switch. But she does just seem to be angry.
 
Have you actually had a vet out to see her? If you haven't then you can't really eliminate pain as a cause of the problems and it is unfair to treat this as behavioural until you have eliminated physical problems.

If the vet has given her the all clear then find another yard with 24/7 turnout and see what happens.
 
You say the problems only started when she began being brought in at night? Wouldn't therefore the first logical thing to try be to put her back on full time turnout? If your yard doesn't offer it then move yards. She might simply hate being stabled, that's a perfectly reasonable reason IMO.
 
I think that for a small child and small pony surely the yard might make an exception to the no lunge rule? I can't even imagine other liveries would mind the exception would they?
However having been at a livery yard and my daughter having problems when her pony was stabled a lot I know some people don't seem to want to help!
I'd get a vet, rule out pain issues then possibly look for a different yard where pony can live out 24/7
Hope you get things sorted op x
 
MagicMelon said:
You say the problems only started when she began being brought in at night? Wouldn't therefore the first logical thing to try be to put her back on full time turnout? If your yard doesn't offer it then move yards. She might simply hate being stabled, that's a perfectly reasonable reason IMO.
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I agree!
the yard seems to have plenty of rules that just doesn't suit your needs.
 
No lunging and limited turnout! Move yards asap before your daughter completely loses faith in her pony. It wouldnt fair to move pony along unless you can find someone who understands the full situation and can work round it, if the pony injured another child you would feel awful.
Could you part loan your pony to an older rider and then part loan another for your daughter to get her confidence back?
 
AdorableAlice said:
Just a naughty pony being mean to a tiny tot in my mind. If the pony behaves on the lead rein and with stronger riders on it would suggest there are no physical problems.

I would lunge until the pony wants to stop and then do plenty more before putting the child on board. An overcheck might stop the pony getting it's head down to buck. Once the habit is in place I think it could be difficult to break and means the pony is just not trustworthy with a tiny rider. It's doesn't take much to strip the child's confidence away and a painful fall could shatter it for good.
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This, totally.

I am an instructor and have taught lots and lots of small children. IME, once some naughty little ponies learn that the tiny tots can't stop them messing around, you've had it.
I've seen many little girls and boys put off riding by the parents persevering with unsuitable mounts. Because of this, I am very quick to say get rid and get something safe.
Could you ever really trust this pony with your child again?

It's such a shame but honestly having seen this SO many times before I would say that once you've started down the slippery slope, it's unlikely to improve.

Try to find something older and proven and you'll all find it much more fun.
People may find this attitude mercenary, but for every person who says 'my first pony was naughty, it was the making of me and taught me to really ride!' there will be at least 200 more children who are totally put off forever.
 
Vet can find nothing wrong with her.

We usually have a lunge ring available, but the rain has made it unuseable. 24 hour turnout is only available during the summer months.

There are no other yards with any facilities in the area, and we need good facilities for our other horse, so we have to stay where we are.

So I guess the hunt is now on for a new pony. After doing a little research it seems that Welsh Section As do not make good ponies for small kids (despite their size) as this problem seems very common. Great on lead-rein - then good for "second ponies". I think I'll start looking for a Section B or an Exmoor/Dartmoor - they would appear to be a little kinder.
 
It's probably the time of year. We had a Section A who was fab in summer and a bit of a witch in winter. Welsh A's are lovely ponies, I don't think the breed matters, it's the temperament. I bet yours will be fine again in the better weather but have to say I am very sympathetic as there is nothing worse than watching your child struggle on a tricky pony. Definately agree about lunging her if at all possible. Keep the child on the lunge for a bit too. Good luck.
 
Patterdale said:
This, totally.

I am an instructor and have taught lots and lots of small children. IME, once some naughty little ponies learn that the tiny tots can't stop them messing around, you've had it.
I've seen many little girls and boys put off riding by the parents persevering with unsuitable mounts. Because of this, I am very quick to say get rid and get something safe.
Could you ever really trust this pony with your child again?

It's such a shame but honestly having seen this SO many times before I would say that once you've started down the slippery slope, it's unlikely to improve.

Try to find something older and proven and you'll all find it much more fun.
People may find this attitude mercenary, but for every person who says 'my first pony was naughty, it was the making of me and taught me to really ride!' there will be at least 200 more children who are totally put off forever.
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This - totally this - 100% agreement !
 
Obviously getting rid of this pony and moving on to another would be ideal, but as we all know, buying and selling ponies is not like part exchanging the car and driving off in a new one.

My daughter totally adores this pony (I must say the husband and I are not really sharing her views at the moment), so its hard tell her the pony has to go, and then, of course, you can't just sell it overnight. We certainly could not afford to pay livery on another before this one goes.

I would prefer to resolve the issues with her if we can, and I now have a few more ideas to try. Im going to try a vitamin/mineral supplement too, as I wonder if there is not much going on with the grass at the moment.

I am rather encouraged that somebody else has suffered from this "Naughty Winter Pony" syndrome.

With the herd that she lives in (there are 10 of them - in a huge field), they are all brought in before dark - which means during the winter months, they are all in by 3pm. And when it is cold and unpleasant, they are all standing by the gate bickering wanting to come in (apart from pony, of course). Now the nights are drawing out hopefully she can start staying out rather longer, but with working full time, it is difficult. We usually manage to get to the farm by 6pm - so once it is light until 6 - she will be able to stay out till then.

I am praying this will make a difference.

We have had a few dry days now, so hopefully I can get lunging again too.
 
Its very difficult, If it makes you feel better our pony who actually jumped in between a car and trailer out of sheer over energy-ness (not a word I know!) when stabled became her old angelic self as soon as spring arrived and she was out again. The worst of winter is past and its a down hill slope from here on in. Next year your daughter will be that little bit bigger and stronger herself maybe
 
Nobody will agree with me, however if I was in this situation with a keen tot and a probably short term tricky pony, I would be giving the pony something to chill it out and let the child keep enjoying the time spent on the pony.

No need to admit it to anyone and when the clocks change, time/light increases as does the pony's work and living out is achieved the 'happy' pills can be put away.

Tin hat on and running like mad !
 
If your daughter is getting scared of the pony I would move on or it might really hurt her confidence. I had a pony as I child that threw me off everytime I tried to canter, she did this with everyone who rode her and eventually ended up breaking someones collar bone and becoming a field ornamnet. In hindsight I suspect she had never been broken in properly. Luckily I was able to ride other horses and ponies that did not rodeo all the time so it saved my confidence. However, even now I will not ride any horse that is known for bucking, no thanks! Too many childhood memories of somersaulting down my ponies neck and bouncing off my head!
 
Personally, I would do a few things.
1. speak to YO - it is rediculous not to allow a tiny pony to be lunged in the school until the lunge ring is OK again - they know the issues you are having and his little feet will not do any damage to the membrane of the school.
2. Get another larger kid to ride him first before your child.
3. Put some tightish side reins on the pony - it will deter it from putting it's head down to buck.

I have a 5 yo Welsh A too - he is a monster but we love him. My daughter (aged 7) would never speak to me again if I EVER sell him! He sometimes bucks but only at the beginning of a session when he is fresh and then we have trouble keeping him going! A long dressage whip is the only way she can back up her too short legs!
 
OP, just a quick question: what time are they turned out at?

As if pony is going out at say, seven or eight in the morning, then coming in at three is reasonable enough. But what if they are actually not going out until around eleven or twelve? Also, do they start bringing in at three, or do they have to be in by three? Again, this could make a difference.

Sorry, just a suggestion. Hope you get this sorted.
 
Again - thanks for the ideas to be tried.

Pony is now being ridden a couple of times a week by a skinny older girl who doesn't take any of her nonsence.

Lunging should now be able to resume as its stopped raining for a few days (touch wood).

Pony is in turned out before 6am every morning. There is no rule about them coming in at 3 (they simply have to be in over night), but during the dark afternoons thats when all the other owners get theirs in, and she cannot be left out on her.
own.

She is ridden in a daisy rein, which to me appears quite tight - but the devious little monster still manages to get her head down.

Also - she is more prone to bucking later on in the ride. Sometimes she will trot around working relatively nicely, even having a little canter, for a good 15-20 minutes. Then its as if she decides she either had enough for today, or she becomes tired, and then starts trying to remove the small child. So far she has not actually managed to dislodge her (which I am sure she finds very annoying). If it were me riding, I would give her a good crack and tell her to get on with it, but at 7 you are just not able to do that.

Happy pills sound like an interesting idea. I may investigate some sort of "calmer". As she does appear "angry", perhaps something along those lines would mellow her.

Thanks for all advice so far - its all being taken on board.

I think I want to see what the spring brings and if she does get over herself. There is another pony that my daughter can ride once a week, he does what he's told - but is totally ancient, but he does restore confidence.
 
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