Building Topline on a mid-teens TB? Feeding and Exercise?

rosiesowner

rosiesowner

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I know this thread would probably be better suited to the care and feeding section of the forum but The Tack Room gets a lot more traffic.

I'm going to do my best to split this post into sections so it will be easier to respond to.

Horse: 15yo TB mare. She's 16hh (at most!).
Workload: She currently gets one day off per week, two at most if I am seriously busy with work/college. She gets jumped once per week and the rest is balanced out schooling/hacking/etc.
The Aim: Get out once a month at BE90 next season. Horse has competed BE previously so this is not unattainable. Our debut didn't go as planned this October, but onwards and upwards :p:o
Feed:
Forage: Currently has two nets of haylage per day on in days and one at night on days they have been out. The yard is haylage only.
Hard Feeds: She has a token handful of chaff with one of her supplements in for breakfast. Supper is chaff and cool mix with supplements; NAF Superflex and Biotin.


This is her April 2016, when I first got her. She had been on an extended holiday for a good few months:
13015133_572265966266388_5652030610301571818_n.jpg


Her in early October:
14469725_646684475491203_6340965089963830358_n.jpg


And finally, her a couple of weeks ago:
15171244_671908842968766_1901406715101823567_n.jpg


I appreciate these pics aren't the best!

Basically, I want advice on a couple of things.

1) Feed: She's quite happy on what she's eating now. She has enough energy, isn't over or underweight particularly (at least I don't think so!) However, I know there are feeds out there that will help us out with building more topline. I'd like some insight into what other people feed. I'm well aware that changing her feed won't suddenly see me arriving at the yard one morning to a correctly muscled, strong horse but every little helps.

2) Exercises: Over the past week or so I've become a Pessoa convert. I can't say I was a fan before after seeing it being used to rush an overbent, unbalanced horse around a circle every day but having used it myself I quite liked it. Chilli worked sweetly into a gentle long and low (but still uphill, if you get me) contact. I want some more exercises to be done under saddle too.


I've come to the H&H forum because it's full of ideas and knowledge. Having only had simple, will live-on-air ponies before this horse, I have an ignorance to managing more 'high maintenance' horses I really want to rectify.

If you got this far, both the Donkey and I say thank you!

Looking forward to hearing some good advice :)
 
I'm sure someone will come along and critique your feed for you... I'd say if your haylage is good quality then feed as much as she wants because forage is always the best starting point.

Feed aside, there are no short cuts for good topline... what you need is correct work, and patience. She's generally weak looking and you have a pronounced dip in front of the withers - that will take time to build up. It'll be harder in an older horse but not impossible. The kind of work you noticed on the pessoa would be what I'd aim for under saddle - genuine stretching reaching work, so she is using the topline muscles, very the frame from time to time because that will work other muscles too and otherwise she will tire.
Slow hill work also good for developing hindquarters, if you can get her to push up hill in walk stretching over the back then that would also help - not scuttling up in a hollow frame.

You *could* bulk her up with feed but if you want muscle you will need to put the work in and let it happen gradually :) My older mare was upside down with no topline at 7, by 9 she looked very different... at 19 she loses some when on holiday but as the correct work is now established she builds up again reasonably well.
 
Topline will first and foremost come from work not feed, if she's a good weight I'd stick with what you have unless you see a drop.

However alfalfa is a good protein source so you could try changing your chaff.
I also use grass nuts and rolled oats on my relatively poor do'er, but then I refuse to use processed hard feeds now as they tend to be too full of fillers and sugar for my metabolically challenged one and the other who is a fab (but itchy) do'er!

Long, low and working from behind up and over the back, if you have any hilly hacking make use of this too with a good marching walk. I feel your pain it took about 12 months for my ewe-necked show pony to have a top-line to be proud of, but correct work was key!
 
milliepops said:
You *could* bulk her up with feed but if you want muscle you will need to put the work in and let it happen gradually :) My older mare was upside down with no topline at 7, by 9 she looked very different... at 19 she loses some when on holiday but as the correct work is now established she builds up again reasonably well.
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Yep, this is the type of answer I was expecting! I'm prepared to put in the work with her, and appreciate your advice :)
 
rosiesowner said:
Yep, this is the type of answer I was expecting! I'm prepared to put in the work with her, and appreciate your advice :)
Click to expand...

Vary what you do with her, as she is older she won't benefit from lots of drilling in the school, but always be aware of her way of going so that she gets benefit from everything you do with her.

One other thing that helped turn mine around was stopping feeding from a net and letting her eat hay from the ground. Mine had a very pronounced underneck muscle so it was a case of "every little helps"!

She's a very pretty mare, btw, what a beautiful face :)
 
I'd be doing lots of pole work and raised poles on a loose rein to get her stretching her neck, back and quarters. And like the others said, hill work would also be really great. The slower going up them the better.

Serpentines and circles of different sizes, small grids, loads of transitions - basically anything to get her using her muscles. All that is so much more effective than just using something to get her into a nice looking frame and trotting on a circle for twenty mins.

An exercise that I really like is trotting from marker to marker and then coming to a square halt at each one. From halt, pick up the trot immediately with purpose and she'll really start using herself.
 
AlexHyde said:
Topline will first and foremost come from work not feed, if she's a good weight I'd stick with what you have unless you see a drop.

However alfalfa is a good protein source so you could try changing your chaff.
I also use grass nuts and rolled oats on my relatively poor do'er, but then I refuse to use processed hard feeds now as they tend to be too full of fillers and sugar for my metabolically challenged one and the other who is a fab (but itchy) do'er!

Long, low and working from behind up and over the back, if you have any hilly hacking make use of this too with a good marching walk. I feel your pain it took about 12 months for my ewe-necked show pony to have a top-line to be proud of, but correct work was key!
Click to expand...

She's happy enough on her feed and so I'm glad that others also feel no dramatic need to change it :)
Living in possibly the flattest part of Yorkshire can make hillwork more challenging, but I certainly know of a few places nearby. :)
 
SpringArising said:
I'd be doing lots of pole work and raised poles on a loose rein to get her stretching her neck, back and quarters. And like the others said, hill work would also be really great. The slower going up them the better.

Serpentines and circles of different sizes, small grids, loads of transitions - basically anything to get her using her muscles. All that is so much more effective than just using something to get her into a nice looking frame and trotting on a circle for twenty mins.

An exercise that I really like is trotting from marker to marker and then coming to a square halt at each one. From halt, pick up the trot immediately with purpose and she'll really start using herself.
Click to expand...

Great exercises! I love trot to halt, halt to trot as it really gets her listening to me. So I'm glad that that will benefit her as well as tuning up her reactions. :)
 
milliepops said:
Vary what you do with her, as she is older she won't benefit from lots of drilling in the school, but always be aware of her way of going so that she gets benefit from everything you do with her.

One other thing that helped turn mine around was stopping feeding from a net and letting her eat hay from the ground. Mine had a very pronounced underneck muscle so it was a case of "every little helps"!

She's a very pretty mare, btw, what a beautiful face :)
Click to expand...

Yep, I try not to do the same thing two days in a row e.g. schooling and then schooling again. She lives a varied life otherwise she gets bored and doesn't want to put 110% in-and who can blame her!

Thank you, I might be biased but she is pretty :)
 
Following with interest, I am trying to build a bit more topline onto my girl.

I like the trot-halt exercise at the markers, will have a crack at this tonight and hopefully see some good results.
 
While of course you need work to build topline, I have one tb that will not unless it is combined with adequate protein. One won't work without the other.

In theory hay/haylage/grass will supply that but as it's variable and in my case I'm on a yard that supplies hay so I can't source my own I find I have to supplement. I use Spirulina or lysine but there are a few options.

Spirulina provides broad spectrum amino acides and following on from the lysine suggestion, that is the amino acid that is likely to be lacking in UK forage and it's the 'first limiting amino acid' so others will depend on it.

If you don't want to change the feed to add a higher protein, then it could be worth adding a supplement though double check what you are currently supplementing does not already provide it.


https://forageplus.co.uk/product-category/horse-amino-acids-protein/

Not suggesting you necessarily buy from here but there is a range of different ways of supplementing amino acids with explanations which could be useful reading.
 
I fed coolstance to mine, great stuff.

As for topline pessoa, grids & polework I found to help greatly! Got her a lovely little peach bum and got rid of the triangle shape
 
What a lovely horse you have...I am a sucker for a grey mare :-).

Agree that correct work is the key to building a good topline, lots of long and low, then bringing the frame up, lateral work, transitions and hillwork/polework but I have had success adding Blue Chip Pro to my mares feed to help with topline build up. Although now retired to just hacking at 21 years old, I noticed when she was around 17/18 years old (and still competing successfully at PSG/Inter 1 level dressage) that it was not as easy especially at certain times of the year to maintain her topline regardless of the work. The Blue Chip Pro definitely provided the additional help that I needed. I now use linseed and she is looking great considering she no longer does any school work.

Also agree with Criso's suggestions and have used Spirulina (on recommendation from my vet too but didn't notice a big difference with my mare, friends horse had great results though), vet also gave me a supplement of Gamma Oryzanol (not completion legal as a natural steroid from rice bran oil) which did wonders but as it came from the vets was not something I wanted to use long term (v expensive!).
 
criso said:
In theory hay/haylage/grass will supply that but as it's variable and in my case I'm on a yard that supplies hay so I can't source my own I find I have to supplement. I use Spirulina or lysine but there are a few options.

Spirulina provides broad spectrum amino acides and following on from the lysine suggestion, that is the amino acid that is likely to be lacking in UK forage and it's the 'first limiting amino acid' so others will depend on it.
Click to expand...

Lots of people seem to be suggesting Lysine and other amino acids so I will certainly look into those :)
 
First Flame said:
What a lovely horse you have...I am a sucker for a grey mare :-).

Agree that correct work is the key to building a good topline, lots of long and low, then bringing the frame up, lateral work, transitions and hillwork/polework but I have had success adding Blue Chip Pro to my mares feed to help with topline build up. Although now retired to just hacking at 21 years old, I noticed when she was around 17/18 years old (and still competing successfully at PSG/Inter 1 level dressage) that it was not as easy especially at certain times of the year to maintain her topline regardless of the work. The Blue Chip Pro definitely provided the additional help that I needed. I now use linseed and she is looking great considering she no longer does any school work.
Click to expand...

All sounds very useful, thank you! I'm glad your mare is feeling good!
 
Linseed and boiled barley is great for helping bulk up without adding fizz (and relatively cheap to do).
Tip from Pammy Hutton for my TB was to make sure she was never cold especially in the stable, if anything over-rug so that she wasn't sweating but was definitely snug - did see a big improvement doing this.
 
She does look a lovely mare. I am not a vet, but to me she looks a little uncomfortable in the hind end. In the second photo particularly it looks like she has a "hunter's bump" which could signify SI problems. Has she had any bodywork?
 
I am no feed expert, but here's my personal experience.

Then 14/15yo 7/8 TB, fit enough to event at BE100/Novice happily and energetically, reasonably muscled with decent topline, fed chaff and balancer. Started feeding some pony nuts instead of balancer. No change to forage, lifestyle, exercise, anything. Horse became much more muscled all over.

Topline does come from exercise, but for mine he didn't start to build up more muscle until he had the fuel to do so.
 
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