Bullying on livery yards....

[Shysmum]

I'm so lucky to have my own yard now, here in rural France. I appreciate it all the more for having suffered bullying at livery yards in the UK. I wonder, I'm vulnerable with my mental health, but how many of us does it affect, and affect our enjoyment of horses ?

 

[Flicker]

I was at a livery yard many years ago when I was much younger (and still respected my elders lol) where a very experienced fellow livery ‘took me under her wing’. She was very helpful in lots of way and taught me a huge amount, but was also very spiteful if she was in the mood to be and said some really horrible things to me about my riding and my horse at the time. She also told me off for riding when she wasn’t there to ‘help’. Once, I asked for her help and she said she was too busy so I asked one of the instructors on the yard to give me a lesson (which I paid for) and she went ballistic and sulked for days.

It got to the point where we was almost afraid to do anything with my horse without clearing it with her first.

It was only once I left and went to a ‘normal’ yard that I realised what a weird co-dependent friendship it really was.

So, I’ve not really been bullied in the traditional sense of the word, but I definitely have had a livery yard experience that significantly impacted in my mental health and I’m glad to be out of it.

I’ve also had my horses at home when I was a child, but I personally think I would miss the company on a well-run livery yard now. But it is very much up to the individual and if you don’t enjoy being where your horse lives, you can’t enjoy your hobby and that will definitely negatively affect your mental health.

 

[catembi]

I am autistic. I do not get on with anyone. I never fit in, even if I try. I would not have horses if I couldn't keep them at home.

 

[Mule]

I haven't had a horse in a yard since my early teens. It was a small yard with no bullies. I now have a small yard of my own and recently evicted a livery for her behaviour. She made life difficult for everyone and the atmosphere is so much better now she's gone. Those types of people are toxic and can drive away other liveries when a yard becomes an unpleasant place to be.

 

[scats]

I’ve been very lucky really. I grew up on a huge yard (over 100 horses) and although I had a couple of fall outs with friends, as you do when you’re a kid, I never experienced any bullying myself. I did witness bullying however, more so as I got older (the yard was demolished and rebuilt when I was 19 and the new stables attracted a lot of different types of people, to put it nicely!)
I was there for over 21 years and became one of the long standing yardies so I sort of earned respect for that and people would come to me for advice. I stayed out of the yard dramas, although it was impossible to ignore it all really as there would be huddles of people from various sides and you’d catch snippets of it as you walked past. I honestly think people thrived on it. There was a lot of bitching about people- how they rode, how they looked after their horses... all the usual.
In later years I was on a quieter section of the yard (the only original part of the yard left standing) and that made it easier to ignore the drama.
I left 6 years ago and moved to a small yard, taking 3 friends with me. It’s just us and one other lovely lady now and it’s lovely to be on a drama free yard.

 

[Flicker]

I haven't had a horse in a yard since my early teens. It was a small yard with no bullies. I now have a small yard of my own and recently evicted a livery for her behaviour. She made life difficult for everyone and the atmosphere is so much better now she's gone. Those types of people are toxic and can drive away other liveries when a yard becomes an unpleasant place to be.

Well done you for taking action. I think all too often YMs put their heads in the sand and hope bullying just resolves itself - usually because they are as afraid of the bully as everyone else!

 

[scats]

Well done you for taking action. I think all too often YMs put their heads in the sand and hope bullying just resolves itself - usually because they are as afraid of the bully as everyone else!

It’s one of the reasons our YO keeps half of the yard empty now and just has us lot. She’s seen it all over the years and her life has been made very difficult by the wrong people on the yard. She says she would far rather empty stables than upset the apple cart, as at the moment she knows we are all good payers, there’s no fall out or dramas, she can go on holiday regularly and leave us to it and we will all look after the place and look out for each other.

 

[Muddywellies]

I've been fairly recently by someone who I 'thought' was a friend. She's done it to a few people now, but strangely, she has a huge fan club, with an awful lot of 'friends' on social media. I'm always amazed how all these people can be so fooled by her. She's incredibly manipulative and would make up totally fabricated stories about me to try to turn other people on the yard against me, and also post very clever FB posts which I knew were a direct attack at me but only i knew that. It was a huge relief when I learned I wasn't the only one she had bullied. But it ruined my time with my horse. I would only ride when she wasn't there and would do everything I could to go to the yard when she wasn't there. I was quite scared of her! It was a lovely yard which I found for us to move to, but after 6 months I left as she was so truly awful towards me. What on earth makes people do this and how do they sleep at night?

 

[dorsetladette]

I have a fairly old thread on here of the horrible situation I got into at my previous yard. I would not go back to a livery yard, big or small now if you paid me. I was subjected to the witches cauldron with no one to help as the chief witch was self appointed YM and the YO was in his 90's unwell and in another country. I really don't know how I held my s**t together if I'm honest. Turns out she had done it to a lot of others and was a general bully where every she had been.
I'm probably quite a naive person and generally take things at face value. So if you want to insult me you have to be quite direct or its lost/wasted on me. So, by the time I had realised what was happening she was at full throttle which was a bit of a shock to be honest. Then I worked backwards and unpicked everything that had happened and realised it had been going on for a while and the warnings other liveries gave me about her before they left hadn't just been passing comments about a strong willed person.

She to had a fan club.

 

[Hanno Verian]

In my experience bullying thrives when people dont have enough in their lives to keep them occuppied and they go to the yard to fill their days. I've never directly experienced bullying on a yard, but then I'm a 6' ex army officer who is robust, sociable and confident. I (and sometimes partner and I) have always been careful about picking a yard, I've been with the same YM for nearly ten years now, I've followed her four times when she's moved yards as have her other liveries. We are all professional people and all our horses are on full livery, we come - ride out together (pre covid), most of us have lessons with the YM, most of us compete - when we do its fun, we all muck in and take a picnic to share. Its inclusive, we invite everyone to everything we do, not everyone comes but everyone can, we are supportive and helpful amongst our group and help the YM and YO where we can. We have a dinner or lunch once or twice a year, everyone brings their other halves who we all know, everyone gets on.
Yes we may disagree about things, we may want to do different things but everyone respects other peoples views and we get along and take pleasure in our achievements and other peoples achievements, however modest.
I think the key thing is that our lives dont revolve purely around our horses and the yard, our horses are what make us smile and are (part of) the reason we work hard, yes they may make us want to tear our hair out, but they are the icing on the cake - not the whole cake.

 

[Skib]

I was bullied by the senior teacher at my first highly regarded RS. It was so extreme that the mother of a child being taught at the same time reported it to my adult daughter. I reported the situation to the BHS who sent my report straight back to the RS which naturally increased the blame on me. I moved to another local school where I discovered that it had for years served as a refuge for students and junior staff being bullied at the other place. For some time I shook in the presence of any riding instructor.

 

[chocolategirl]

It’s one of the reasons our YO keeps half of the yard empty now and just has us lot. She’s seen it all over the years and her life has been made very difficult by the wrong people on the yard. She says she would far rather empty stables than upset the apple cart, as at the moment she knows we are all good payers, there’s no fall out or dramas, she can go on holiday regularly and leave us to it and we will all look after the place and look out for each other.

Me too, I’m winding down my yard now after 25 years. In truth, I don’t think I’ve had the problems that seem to plague a lot of yards, I’m also a strong personality so I don’t put up with peoples crap like I did when I started out. Running a livery yard is like juggling a box of frogs, I just don’t have the appetite for that juggle anymore ? bullying is unacceptable in any way shape or form, and I agree, YM’s need to take it more seriously ?

 

[Muddywellies]

In my experience bullying thrives when people dont have enough in their lives to keep them occuppied and they go to the yard to fill their days. I've never directly experienced bullying on a yard, but then I'm a 6' ex army officer who is robust, sociable and confident. I (and sometimes partner and I) have always been careful about picking a yard, I've been with the same YM for nearly ten years now, I've followed her four times when she's moved yards as have her other liveries. We are all professional people and all our horses are on full livery, we come - ride out together (pre covid), most of us have lessons with the YM, most of us compete - when we do its fun, we all muck in and take a picnic to share. Its inclusive, we invite everyone to everything we do, not everyone comes but everyone can, we are supportive and helpful amongst our group and help the YM and YO where we can. We have a dinner or lunch once or twice a year, everyone brings their other halves who we all know, everyone gets on.
Yes we may disagree about things, we may want to do different things but everyone respects other peoples views and we get along and take pleasure in our achievements and other peoples achievements, however modest.
I think the key thing is that our lives dont revolve purely around our horses and the yard, our horses are what make us smile and are (part of) the reason we work hard, yes they may make us want to tear our hair out, but they are the icing on the cake - not the whole cake.

You're totally right. I work full time in a busy job. The bully I mentioned in my post, whilst being fitter than I am, con's an awful lot of money out of the government as she's cleverly playing the system. Doesn't work, has a far more lavish lifestyle than me and has far too much time on her hands. The mind boggles......

 

[Amun]

It's sad to see that adults can act like bunch of kids. I guess I've been lucky, people in my yard/RS are very friendly and I always look forward to a nice chit chat. I have zero tolerance for bullying and I would never stay in such a place.

 

[Pippity]

I thoroughly enjoy being on a livery yard, and I find it hard to believe I'm the only one. I live alone and, even before the pandemic, I worked from home, so it wasn't unusual for me to go all day without seeing anybody. Of course, there are people on my yard who I like less than others, as well as people I like more than others. I'm sure other people feel the same about me. But we're all grown-ups (even the teenagers!) and capable of rubbing along together.

While I have an idle dream of having Blue at home, a) I'm never going to be able to afford a home where that's possible, b) I'm never going to have the time/energy for that to be possible, and c) I'd really miss the social aspect.

For me, the ideal situation would be to live next door to my current yard! All the benefits of my horse being right there, preferably visible from my bedroom window, but without being responsible for all the maintenance and with people around to have a chat with, to hack with, and for general moral support.

 

[Bernster]

I had a short lived episode at a previous yard. I’d say I’m a confident, strong minded person. I try to get on with everyone and have always been on good terms at all other yards. It shocked me that it happened and it really impacted me - I lost sleep, I felt sick visiting the yard, I avoided being there when they were on the yard, and I reduced my visits to the horse. It’s stayed with me and I was so nervous when I moved yard as I was paranoid about doing something wrong.

I’m sure the YM at that yard felt that I was a terrible livery but I know of several others who had the same treatment and they have poor reviews on google for the same treatment. Wish I’d have paid more attention to those before I moved.

Horses are such an important part of people’s lives and the yard atmosphere is so important. I don’t think I had really appreciated that before as I’d never experienced it directly.

 

[bouncing_ball]

I thoroughly enjoy being on a livery yard, and I find it hard to believe I'm the only one. I live alone and, even before the pandemic, I worked from home, so it wasn't unusual for me to go all day without seeing anybody. Of course, there are people on my yard who I like less than others, as well as people I like more than others. I'm sure other people feel the same about me. But we're all grown-ups (even the teenagers!) and capable of rubbing along together.

While I have an idle dream of having Blue at home, a) I'm never going to be able to afford a home where that's possible, b) I'm never going to have the time/energy for that to be possible, and c) I'd really miss the social aspect.

For me, the ideal situation would be to live next door to my current yard! All the benefits of my horse being right there, preferably visible from my bedroom window, but without being responsible for all the maintenance and with people around to have a chat with, to hack with, and for general moral support.

I enjoy being on a yard. I had an isolated situation a few years ago, and missed company at yard, and to ride with.

If I had horses at home, snd had to work to pay for it, I’d not have time for all the facilities maintenance and enjoying my horse. And I love the variety of events and people at my yard.

 

[proseccoandponies]

I was on a livery yard previously for a couple of years where there was a group of older women who were actually the bullies. They would congregate and bitch about whoever wasn't there, then as soon as they would arrive smile and be all nice and pally, the yard owner would sometimes even be there dishing it out as well. It didn't take me or my mum long to weigh up what was going on, and we didn't engage in conversation much really which isolated us from the rest of the yard but we were okay with that.
Now me and my mum are both quite strong willed and quietly confident people, neither of us ever start any trouble but are well capable of standing up for ourselves. There was another young girl, similar age to myself who was a bit more sensitive than me and was having difficulty with her horse and lameness on/off. Naturally they saw weakness and preyed upon her, everything she did they had something to say about it and it was really upsetting her. I came down one morning and they were huddled bitching, I said my polite hellos, and somehow they tried to involve me in their gossiping. They were gob-smacked when I straight away called them out and told they how nasty they were being. Of course I got a message from the yard owner, accusing me of yard bullying and saying it was a warning and if it continued I would be asked to leave! From there on I was their next victim, they would niggle at me in any way they could. I am pretty thick skinned, having worked on yards I've dealt with some nasty characters and been subjected to bitching and bullying in that environment, but the nastiness of these older women was beyond belief and eventually I couldn't handle it anymore and left the yard. I have never been so relieved to get away from such a group of awful people, I no longer dread going to the yard for fear of being victimised in some way or having to put up with their disgusting behavior. Anyone in this situation, if the yard owner isn't willing to help, just move off as soon as you can, life is too short, and horses are too expensive not to enjoy!

 

[Errin Paddywack]

I have never been on a livery yard but have worked at a RS, 4 years straight from leaving school. Got on fine to start with but the final year was awful. The other girl who worked there got pregnant and got married. Boss was furious with me for not telling her but I didn't know till after. A little while after that she started accusing people of stealing from her. First chap was held in custody for a couple of days. Then she tried to convince me that the other girl had taken it. She got me to help her in the room the other girl had slept in and made a great show of finding a loose board beside the bed which she lifted and said 'too late'. I told her I did not believe other girl would have taken the money, not sure it even existed to be honest, she kept changing the amount. Next thing I was accused of taking it out of her bag which she always carried with her. She set up a situation one time whereby she left it in the kitchen where I was having dinner with some riding holiday children and then called to ask me for it. I had to go the police station to make a statement. Luckily the policeman was someone who ride at the yard and warned me what was going in, he collected me. Quite an experience going into a horrid little room and being questioned by a plain clothes officer. I told them straight I thought she was barking mad and I think they were coming to that conclusion themselves as I heard no more about it. I handed in my notice after that and took an office job. It took a long time to get over that though. If anyone asked where something was, my first instinctive feeling was that I was being accused of taking whatever it was. My boss and I also used to have terrible arguments with her shouting at me and me shouting back in defence, goodness knows what the clients thought.

After I left I heard of other incidents, one woman was accused of stealing a dressing table of all things. Still not sure if she was actually insane or just a control freak. When she finally died, friends asked if I would go to her funeral, you can imagine the answer.

 

[shamrock2021]

If I actually told people about what I have witnessed on a previous yard they would be completely shocked. Dangerous angrier issues to put it lightly. Not every yard is bad though my current yard is brilliant .

 

[9tails]

I'm on a large yard which is split into various barns. I think if I were anywhere else but in my small quiet barn, I would be driven out by the cliqueyness. I make few actual friends but there are plenty of acquaintances, though I have the uncanny ability to suss people very quickly. Some people I completely blank, but only when they've done me wrong because I don't forgive. My horse is content and I spend my time with her, it's not the human aspect that I crave.

 

[Elno]

Women in group against a common "enemy" is a force to be reckoned with...

I recently moved from having my horse at a RS (basically livery yard though for us with private horses, but big, noisy and some SERIOUS issues with management with the yard/RS manager and the board of the riding school being at each others throats and with some of the board members also having a horse at the livery there) to a private yard with just me and my horse and the yard owners two horses.

I got so fed up with all the drama and gossip. When I realised my horse didn't do well at the former place it was a no brainer to move as fast as possible away from there since I started to really dread having to be there every single day and hearing each side rant about the other. I don't give a rats ass about what a board member said to the manager or vice versa. I really can't be bothered after a hard day of work at the hospital, only to be having to deal with peoples petty, insignificant quarrels. The problem when you actively choose not to take sides is that both sides assume it's okay to bitch about the other to you! And when people gossip about other liveries to you, you can be most certain they are also gossiping about you behind your back ?

Never again I say, will I set my foot there or any place like it. Horse people are seriously the WORST sometimes.

 

[Quigleyandme]

I wouldn’t have a horse if my only option was to keep him at livery. My experience of them is thankfully limited but from what is posted on here the majority are toxic and I don’t have the resilience to cope.

 

[Shysmum]

Some things that happened to me on various yards:

Being charged £2 to fix the broken bolts on my own BARROW, which I told everyone was for Shy only. Great YO.
A scaffolding pole was put up right next to Shys stable door while he was in the stable. I couldn't get him out. ?
She being referred to as "it" and "the carthorse"
Having a riding lesson, the YO gets the ride on mower out in the same paddock.
Thefts, lots of thefts....
The YO asking if he could borrow my trailer, which proceeded to be trashed by two incoming liveries. No compensation

I could go on but I wont bore you. Suffice to say, the only way I could keep horses was on my own yard.

 

[Gingerwitch]

I was bullied by the senior teacher at my first highly regarded RS. It was so extreme that the mother of a child being taught at the same time reported it to my adult daughter. I reported the situation to the BHS who sent my report straight back to the RS which naturally increased the blame on me. I moved to another local school where I discovered that it had for years served as a refuge for students and junior staff being bullied at the other place. For some time I shook in the presence of any riding instructor.

That's awful and you were paying for this abuse.

 

[Gingerwitch]

I had a short lived episode at a previous yard. I’d say I’m a confident, strong minded person. I try to get on with everyone and have always been on good terms at all other yards. It shocked me that it happened and it really impacted me - I lost sleep, I felt sick visiting the yard, I avoided being there when they were on the yard, and I reduced my visits to the horse. It’s stayed with me and I was so nervous when I moved yard as I was paranoid about doing something wrong.

I’m sure the YM at that yard felt that I was a terrible livery but I know of several others who had the same treatment and they have poor reviews on google for the same treatment. Wish I’d have paid more attention to those before I moved.

Horses are such an important part of people’s lives and the yard atmosphere is so important. I don’t think I had really appreciated that before as I’d never experienced it directly.

Was it a group of liveries bullying you or staff or just 1 person ?

 

[Bernster]

It was a family run yard, so it was the YM and her mum but the other staff member ignored me (and the other livery who they also fell out with) when it kicked off.

Lovely facilities but a very oddly run place - controlling, inflexible, rude, moody, unprofessional. And rough with the horses. So many rules, some of which they added afterwards, or forgot to mention, or which weren’t very clear but you’d get shouted at publicly (inc for things that they knew had nothing to do with me) if you didn’t follow them exactly. I’m a bit disappointed that I didn’t stand up for myself but I’m not great at confrontation and I refused to behave as badly as they did.

Fortunately I was able to move quickly and am now at a lovely yard.

 

[Mule]

It was a family run yard, so it was the YM and her mum but the other staff member ignored me (and the other livery who they also fell out with) when it kicked off.

Lovely facilities but a very oddly run place - controlling, inflexible, rude, moody, unprofessional. And rough with the horses. So many rules, some of which they added afterwards, or forgot to mention, or which weren’t very clear but you’d get shouted at publicly (inc for things that they knew had nothing to do with me) if you didn’t follow them exactly. I’m a bit disappointed that I didn’t stand up for myself but I’m not great at confrontation and I refused to behave as badly as they did.

Fortunately I was able to move quickly and am now at a lovely yard.

I find it's easier to think of what you should have done in hindsight. Especially in emotional situations, sometimes what you say, isn't what you would ideally have chosen.

 

[Hanno Verian]

You're totally right. I work full time in a busy job. The bully I mentioned in my post, whilst being fitter than I am, con's an awful lot of money out of the government as she's cleverly playing the system. Doesn't work, has a far more lavish lifestyle than me and has far too much time on her hands. The mind boggles......

Thats interesting....I subscribe to the dont get mad - get even school of thought - Perhaps a well placed email to the HMRC or DHSS would generate a satisfying result. If anyything she is doing is the wrong side of the law then its everyone she's ripping off most particularly the people who should be supported by our taxes

 

[TotalMadgeness]

I've been on quite a few yards. The first one quite simply starved the horses (and her turnout in the winter was awful) so I quickly moved on. The second yard wasn't too bad but lots of stuff got stolen and after being accused of not pulling my weight (from someone stealing my feed) I left. The third yard decided me and my horse were too much hassle and forced me out by simply refusing to give my horse any turnout (I didn't realise until I moved to that yard he didn't do so well in a herd but was fine turned out with one other horse - I offered to pay for electric fencing so he could have turnout but it was repeatedly refused). The final straw was when the Yard Manager proudly declared one day he'd hit my horse with a broom for looking at him the wrong way (wtf??). Then. The fourth yard I went to couldn't do enough for me and my horse, yet it was the busiest, largest yard I've ever been on (with fantastic hacking I may add). They were utterly amazing - despite the size of the place they took time out to treat me and the horse as individuals. But sadly my personal life took a turn for the worse (horse hating hubby decided it was time to split) and the horse had to be sold as I could no longer afford him. I went back to this yard many years later for a first aid course and honestly it was like I'd never gone away! Then my personal life improved I started riding again went to a big place, again with amazing hacking, and got on so well with the yard manager/liveries there decided to buy another horse. Sadly the yard manager left and the one that replaced her was, to be blunt, incompetent. Which ended up with my horse getting injured (a few times not just once) and quite simply not cared for (bearing in mind this was full livery). Anyway after a year of so of crap I was bullied out of the place (by the yard manager, some of the staff, a couple of liveries and weirdly enough the farrier), my mental health in tatters. Next yard was absolutely ace though (tiny private yard run by a very experienced old school horsewoman) and the horse thrived but by then I'd completely lost my confidence and could no longer ride any horse not just my own. So I had no option but to sell my horse. Roll on a few more years and I'm in my own place with a lovely horse loving husband, 2 gorgeous horses and my mental health intact. Having reflected on stuff I reckon because I hate conflict and tend to be submissive/easy going, people sometimes take advantage. I was also really naïve when I first started having horses which didn't help because I didn't know any better. Anyway I really think all equine courses/degrees need to include a module on mental health if they don't already because it is just SO important - for staff, for liveries and riders. I feel like I wasted years after losing my confidence and although I now have the confidence back, at my age my body has started to let me down (arthritis) - but that's just a wee touch of sod's law!