Bullying on yards - any experiences?

[jrp204]

Indeed. As an adult, you can only be bullied if you allow it to happen. If you either ignore the behaviour or deal with it, it will stop. Bullies, of any age, want a reaction which puts them in a position of power.
Which is not to say that it is acceptable for adults to demean children on a livery yard.
Children need to be taught the skills to deal with bullies wherever they meet them.

I went to uni as a mature student (46) to study conservation biology and ecology. There was another less 'mature' student who openly admitted to hunt stabbing and anti vivisection stuff (breaking into places etc). I have a live and let live attitude and for the first year we got on ok, would have a chat, I gave her a couple of lifts, she wasn't going to be my bezzie mate but it was ok. In the 2nd yr if I was around she would start making comments like 'let's kill the farmers' and stuff like that, she put a sheep skull in my empty boot on a field trip. Did it worry me, hell no, it was actually quite funny. In the 3rd yr we were in discussion groups and we were both in a the same group of 6, I tried to comment on something in the discussion when she said 'there's no need to shout' (I hadn't) so I replied you've never heard me shout, her reply was 'you've never seen me kick you ********** head in'
I reported her, it actually quite shook me up. My main concern was that she was actually starting to bully some of the younger quieter students and I was quite protective of them (surrogate auntie sort of thing). The uni didn't really know how to handle it, she accused me and some staff of harassment both of which were outright lies. Her punishment was that she couldn't go to graduation! I was fuming!! She should have been chucked off the course and I wrote to the head of the college to complain. The uni now has a strict anti bullying policy.
I ignored her, she didn't stop! I was mature enough to not let it bother me but it could have really upset someone else.

 

[Sukistokes2]

I used to have that smug no one could bully me attitude, I'm a confident, happy person who speaks their mind and can hold their own. I'm not worried about silly comments and I'm not upset by differing opinions. However, when it happens, its not always that clear it is happening at first and when its a person that has "power" over you. Not power you give them but authority, like a boss at work, it can grow and become very difficult to deal with. I was bullied at work by my direct line manger. She was a pro at it and selected her victims and slowly built up the bullying to the point i was starting to believe she was right. The one attempt I made to report her was referred back to her by the main boss. I put up with it because its a great job, pays well and gives me loads of time with my horses and to do my art work. However at the end of that year I was a mess and getting ill. I was in fear of losing my job and not being able to pay for myself and my horses. Finally my main boss twigged something was going on and moved in and put a stop to it. The woman was moved on and things settled down, however it took me a while to get over the damage that had been done and now I am really careful not to allow myself to be put in any situation where I feel threatened. So before you say it would NEVER happen to me, be aware it COULD!
Livery yards are a closed environment and I can see that things could easily get out of hand and frankly if the YO does not want to get involved you are left with few options, I'm glad i'm at home.

 

[Birker2020]

Not sure about bullying on a livery yard but there is some seriously rude bullies on this forum that's for sure!

Agree

 

[Birker2020]

Having worked in a male dominated factory for 8 years i can catagorically say men are far bitchier than women when you get them in a group, the difference being they call it 'banter'!!

I have never found that on a construction site. And these days they have a lot more respect for women and tend to mind what they say in respect of swearing. I don't mind swearing, apart from the cu next Tuesday word which I cannot bear. My colleagues know this and really try not to use it in front of me. As for anything else, I don't care.

 

[Birker2020]

I This woman had cost me vets bills in un-needed vetinary intervention for a tiny little cut, told me my horse was dangerous and should be shot, told me I was too heavy (which I wasn't, backed up by both vet and Physio) and told me I couldn't handle my horse. My horse was healthy, happy, feet done, back done, teeth done, saddle fitted, clean bed, good weight, groomed, fresh water and hay daily. Not over worked, or asked to work hard. I always tidied up after myself.

Your story echoes a lot of what I have gone through in the past Damnation. Sometimes I wonder what is wrong with people, I think they must be very sad or emotionally affected in some way to say the things they do.

I am just glad that I am not like them and leave it at that. Attempts to reason or even ask for mercy with that sort of person is a total waste of time, they have no empathy for others

 

[Lizzie66]

Not sure about bullying on a livery yard but there is some seriously rude bullies on this forum that's for sure!

There are people who are blunt to the point of rudeness on here and extremely forthright in their opinions that may impact on some people wanting to comment. However rudeness and bullying are not the same thing. Bullying would be pretty much stalking people, mocking them with the intent of deliberately giving offence, demoralising or frightening them. I don't think there are very many people of that type on this forum.

If you find yourself involved in an argument on a thread in the forum where you don't like the direction then just stop posting on that thread. Giving offence is not automatically bullying.

 

[Damnation]

Your story echoes a lot of what I have gone through in the past Damnation. Sometimes I wonder what is wrong with people, I think they must be very sad or emotionally affected in some way to say the things they do.

I am just glad that I am not like them and leave it at that. Attempts to reason or even ask for mercy with that sort of person is a total waste of time, they have no empathy for others

I just tell them to ******* off now

I am a nice, laid back, approachable person. I will help anyone *if they ask for help* but for some reason people try it on with me. I have to say that I have alot more self confidence now (having owned horse for 6 years and she is still upright!!!) and I am more likely to tell them where to go but on the whole I am out for an easy life and not one for confrontation or poking my nose in.

Even my own mother told me that I was a "bully magnet" and that I should "look at myself and ask why?". Guess what my answer was? (I'll give you a hint, two words, one starts with P, the other is "OFF!")

 

[Merlod]

A woman who'd been a livery for a year, whose horse lived out with mine and 8 others in the herd, suddenly decided that my horse kicked hers and that I should give her money to get the vet out as mine had "crippled" hers and she also expected me to leave the yard as my horse was a "pshyco" (thinking back i'm sure it was all premeditated as her friend and her mum were on the waiting list, and I conveniently had two stables on the yard) I refused gracefully but did not apologise as I was not there and did not want to give her any way of thinking I accepted the blame.

I am very shy and don't like arguments and think I was an easy target being young and quiet. She never once had the vet, still rode the horse but the bullying was awful, I had my stuff stolen, I was shouted out when she saw me out riding, some of the most vile facebook posts including writing vile things about my family - calling my dad an anorexic tapeworm (he had cancer at the time). My pony suddenly became headshy and wound up - I can't say with 100% certainty but I am sure she got to him too when I wasn't there. I was threatened with being beaten up etc. She was in her mid 30's, brought her mum up and cornered me in the tackroom on the night they knew my mum was at work and I would be at the yard alone, they were screaming at me, getting in my face demanding me to give them vet money and leave the yard. I’ve honestly never been so scared as having two adult women going at me. Fortunately my mum thought they’d do something and sent my Dad up with me, who was sat in the car, came in the tackroom and shouted them down when he heard the commotion. Only then did she accept I wasn’t paying up and leaving the yard, so she had to leave because of all the fuss she had made there was no way she could put her horse back out with mine after everything she had said about him.

It was an awful time and I don't know how anybody can say bullying isn’t a problem for adults! I kept every communication from her and reported to the police so that there would be a file already in case anything did happen to me. Even thought this was quite a few years ago, I have never publicly posted due to fear of repercussion, and it's made me a little nervous already

 

[Birker2020]

I just tell them to ******* off now

I am a nice, laid back, approachable person. I will help anyone *if they ask for help* but for some reason people try it on with me. I have to say that I have alot more self confidence now (having owned horse for 6 years and she is still upright!!!) and I am more likely to tell them where to go but on the whole I am out for an easy life and not one for confrontation or poking my nose in.

Even my own mother told me that I was a "bully magnet" and that I should "look at myself and ask why?". Guess what my answer was? (I'll give you a hint, two words, one starts with P, the other is "OFF!")

Ha ha. Think you might be right I don't like confrontation either, but I do feel like I have to justify myself all the time and I am not sure why.

My friends on the yard and my loved ones tell me not to react as it won't then give those that like to 'poke me with a stick' the reaction they are looking for but I find it incredibly hard to walk away without putting my point across. You never win with that kind of person, they always like to have the last word

 

[milliepops]

Indeed. As an adult, you can only be bullied if you allow it to happen. If you either ignore the behaviour or deal with it, it will stop. Bullies, of any age, want a reaction which puts them in a position of power.
Which is not to say that it is acceptable for adults to demean children on a livery yard.
Children need to be taught the skills to deal with bullies wherever they meet them.

^^ this.

Plus as an adult you can remove yourself from a place where bullying is rife, whereas you may not have that choice as a child. I was bullied relentlessly as a child at school. It has affected me for life, but I can honestly say I'm stronger now for it and I know what I will and won't accept.
That said, I've chosen yards specifically for the pleasant atmosphere. Keeping your head down at a yard where everyone is in everyone else's business is a bit tiresome. Horses are my happy time and I refuse to have that ruined by a nasty yard My YO is a saint and we're a happy gang where I am now.

 

[MrsNorris]

Not sure about bullying on a livery yard but there is some seriously rude bullies on this forum that's for sure!

See, I've never really felt this, there are plenty of disagreements and different opinions, but I've never read anything which I thought was just outright bullying. There are forthright opinions yes, but that's ok isn't it? The worst I've seen on here the odd poster losing their cool and being a bit insulting to another, but that's not bullying to my mind, just a temporary loss of temper, happens to us all, soon forgotten by most.

 

[Annagain]

Reading these make me feel quite sad. I can honestly say I've never experienced bullying on any of the yards I've been on and I feel very lucky for that.

I agree with Yorks G that not every case (in general, not these stories) is actually bullying but disagreements that have got out of hand but I can also see how feeling bullied is as upsetting as actually being bullied.

I remember being called into the head's office at school as one friend had accused another (I was friendly with two different groups in school, these were from the different groups) of bullying her. I was asked in as a witness and had to tell the teachers that there was no bullying going on, but that they had fallen out (because one had a party and didn't invite the other, but they weren't friends so why would she!) and it was 6 of one half a dozen of the other. They thanked me for my honesty and spoke to both girls. The next day I got called back in and the first girl had accused me of bullying her too. They told me even though they believed my side of the story, her parents had got involved and they had to tell them they were doing something about it so had to talk to me.

I tried to speak to her about it later and she was screaming at me that by not "getting off the *********g fence" (the first time I'd heard her swear which shocked me, she was quite the goody two shoes!) to support her I was siding with the other girl and she was going to make me pay for it. Luckily a teacher walked past and heard all this so knew I hadn't done anything so I got an apology from the teachers and left alone for the rest of the whole sorry saga. I just ignored her for the rest of the term (this was a couple of weeks before GCSEs) and she was leaving after that anyway.

I still think I did the right thing and I'm still certain there was no bullying going on, but with hindsight and a bit of maturity (I hope!) I can see that if she genuinely felt bullied me 'sitting on the fence' didn't help that. I think she was jealous I had the other friends and she didn't so when they argued and I didn't side with her (because all I wanted was for us all to be friends and I genuinely felt they were both as bad as each other) she massively overreacted. Having said that, what I could have done to help the situation, I really don't know.

 

[9tails]

Even thought this was quite a few years ago, I have never publicly posted due to fear of repercussion, and it's made me a little nervous already

Good on you for airing it, Merlod. I haven't copied it all in case you do want to take it down, but this goes on a lot. I am so glad your dad came to the rescue, but he really shouldn't have needed to. I hope he is recovered as well as your pony.

It's a wonderful feeling when the bully leaves, like there's light at the end of the tunnel.

 

[Wagtail]

I have the right to make the judgement, based on what I see infront of me. I frequently see people on these boards claiming to be bullied, when on all the evidence infront of the rest of the population of the board, there is simply a disagreement, or difference of opinion. TBH the "background" of either party is irrelevant IMO, having been bullied in the past does not give the person a free pass to shout bullying when disagreed with, nor to behave in a bullying manner to others.

I see a lot of bullying behaviour on this forum and it is not just simple disagreements. The problem is that an outsider reading a single thread would not see anything other than the thread getting a bit personal. What they wouldn't see is the same group of individuals rounding on the same person (or persons) in thread after thread after thread. I see it a lot. I haven't personally been bullied on here, because although there are people who obviously dislike me, it doesn't bother me a hoot, but I do see it happening a lot to some others.
What doesn't bother someone, because they can see the attempts to bully a mile off and it's water off a ducks back, can be seriously upsetting to another.

 

[Frumpoon]

Never from other liveries only by yard owners funnily enough

 

[rachk89]

I have to agree with others that there are bullies on this forum. However I actually feel sorry for them. They have little better to do other than ride their horse/s so they come on here to make themselves feel better. Feel sorry for them nothing else.

I feel a bit sorry for those at my yard who are talked about behind their backs but in all honesty this seems to happen to everyone. I thought it was a select few at first but it's really not i think everyone gets talked about including myself. But i think that kind of thing happens at all yards really not just mine. Mine might actually be one of the nicer in the areas since one is very 'posh' and another is owned by an insane woman. It's a small price to pay and i dont care either way. The people there are still nice and really helpful to which i am grateful.

 

[Nativelover]

Never from other liveries only by yard owners funnily enough

Same here, but there's no consequences for YO is there!? So there's nothing to challenge their behaviour so it continues and amplifies.

 

[Birker2020]

Same here, but there's no consequences for YO is there!? So there's nothing to challenge their behaviour so it continues and amplifies.

Consequences for YO are losing liveries, but hey ho there is always another livery to take their place around the corner.

That's the problem sadly.

 

[Lizzie66]

I see a lot of bullying behaviour on this forum and it is not just simple disagreements. The problem is that an outsider reading a single thread would not see anything other than the thread getting a bit personal. What they wouldn't see is the same group of individuals rounding on the same person (or persons) in thread after thread after thread. I see it a lot. I haven't personally been bullied on here, because although there are people who obviously dislike me, it doesn't bother me a hoot, but I do see it happening a lot to some others.
What doesn't bother someone, because they can see the attempts to bully a mile off and it's water off a ducks back, can be seriously upsetting to another.

This could be as simple as people with diametrically opposing views posting on the topics that they feel strongly about. We all post on here anonymously and by and large can remain so. Therefore any disagreements (even where people get personal) cannot be bullying in the true sense of the word. You can create a new id, you can report other users to the FC.

Bullying is personal, where you feel victimised, unable to get away from your persecutors and nowhere to turn to stop it happening. So on this forum you might feel the first two of this but you always have the option on the last two.

 

[ester]

^^ this,

and what yorksg said

I do think that there are problems with some people believing/claiming that they are being bullied, when actually what has happened is that someone has disagreed with them. I find this irritating beyond belief and also feel that this devalues the experiences of those people who actually have been bullied.

and you will get the same members posting on thread after thread because there aren't that many members that are that active on a daily basis so I tend to think what others might think is happening is just circumstance rather than anything else.
And yes, what doesn't bother one person can upset another. You might have half a chance of working out which in real life but it is somewhat trickier when you don't know the other person. Wasn't it suggested earlier that because someone had been bullied in RL if the past it makes them more susceptible/sensitive to bullying/to feel bullied now? I struggle to see how that works/how the other people on a thread would somehow know that disagreement would be felt as bullying. It would make threads quite stilted and what would you do, never disagree or correct those people or answer the questions they ask for fear of upsetting them?

Essentially I think there is a subtle difference between feeling bullied - where others can just see a disagreement and not any back history of either party which might be changing the emotional involvement and being bullied where all outsiders can see that this is the case and that a particular person is being targeted not just a difference in views.That is not do diminish the experience of the person in the former example but that that might not be either intended as bullying by the others, or observed as such by any third parties.

I have the right to make the judgement, based on what I see infront of me. I frequently see people on these boards claiming to be bullied, when on all the evidence infront of the rest of the population of the board, there is simply a disagreement, or difference of opinion. TBH the "background" of either party is irrelevant IMO, having been bullied in the past does not give the person a free pass to shout bullying when disagreed with, nor to behave in a bullying manner to others.

 

[Abi90]

I don't think anyone has any right to make any judgement on bullying unless they have the full details from both parties and are actively involved.

And someone's past is not irrelevant. I was bullied all through school and now suffer with anxiety as a result. I've never had any trouble on livery yards as everyone has always been lovely but I will admit that I am more sensitive to criticism and overanalyse what could be a throwaway comment from someone else. I have learnt to let stuff wash over me and talk myself out of stuff and pin it down to my anxiety but I make no apology for how I am.

I also work in an environment where people can be "aggressively persuaded" to do stuff due to lack of staff. It's in no way personal but I would class it as bullying as its pushing someone into doing something they don't feel comfortable with.

Also, because someone is less thick skinned than others doesn't mean that they should just have to "put up with" disagreements or others' potentially argumentative behaviour any more than a more bolshy person should have to tread on eggshells around a more sensitive one.

Everyone just needs to have more emotional intelligence, think about what they are saying and definitely not judge people!

 

[DragonSlayer]

...so can you define behaviour that you see as passive aggressive and/or bullying? I've been told a few times I'm unapproachable/off-hand/aggressive etc etc but actually, do I really have to be the life and soul of the party every moment of the day? Is there a written rule saying I have to get pulled in on gossip and if I'm not interested people assume I'm a grump? (and I'm not just talking livery yards here, I'm talking all walks of life)

Just because all I've said good morning etc etc and got on with my work doesn't mean I'm a bully/aggressive or otherwise! Not all of us are person people all of the time and I'm not a fan of the label. Are we not allowed to get on with what we are doing now without proving we aren't what we are being called?

 

[Abi90]

Being grumpy and just getting on with your own stuff is very different to having a disagreement with someone that may have unintentionally hurt their feelings.

That is just your personality, and if people know you they should understand that and like you for who you are. And if they don't then just let you get on with it.

My issue was with the suggestion from some that the onus is entirely on the one who perceives the "bullying" to man up and get on with it whilst there is no requirement for anyone else to perhaps placate a situation or think about how different people perceive stuff.

I was merely suggesting that we all (including the sensitive people) think differently and appreciate that. And that past experience shapes you and is therefore not irrelevant.

 

[ester]

I don't think anyone has any right to make any judgement on bullying unless they have the full details from both parties and are actively involved.

And someone's past is not irrelevant. I was bullied all through school and now suffer with anxiety as a result. I've never had any trouble on livery yards as everyone has always been lovely but I will admit that I am more sensitive to criticism and overanalyse what could be a throwaway comment from someone else. I have learnt to let stuff wash over me and talk myself out of stuff and pin it down to my anxiety but I make no apology for how I am.

I also work in an environment where people can be "aggressively persuaded" to do stuff due to lack of staff. It's in no way personal but I would class it as bullying as its pushing someone into doing something they don't feel comfortable with.

Also, because someone is less thick skinned than others doesn't mean that they should just have to "put up with" disagreements or others' potentially argumentative behaviour any more than a more bolshy person should have to tread on eggshells around a more sensitive one.

Everyone just needs to have more emotional intelligence, think about what they are saying and definitely not judge people!

But that's tricky even more so in an online environment where the parties might not want to disclose full details.
I too am very sensitive to criticism and trying to analyse if there was any subcontext in how something was said. This might mean I feel bullied but because I know that wasn't the intention behind the crit/comment and try and use that info to mitigate my feelings does that make sense.
That and everyone seems to have different definitions of bullying, if you have had it quite hardcore then anything less than that might seem trivial to you.
My emotional intelligence (EQ) is rubbish, I try to make up for that but probably regularly fail!

 

[DragonSlayer]

Yes I agree they ARE different but unfortunately there many who don't think that way! I'm not this mardy grump permanently (thank god) but sometimes I just like my own company to do whatever I'm doing, and there are others who will judge me for that, rightly or wrongly, and the aggressive word has been used! (Though I never worked out how mucking out my own stable with ear phones in made me aggressive...)

Luckily now we have our own place so no worries about livery yards anymore! I just get grumpy with the tractor when it won't start!

 

[Abi90]

It's almost impossible to get it right online! Even if you had no malice whatsoever to what you wrote it could be interpreted as such!

 

[ester]

yup, we should give up and do some work really