Bunny hopping/changing legs behind in canter?

My horse did the same thing - was sacroiliac ligament strain. He is fine in W+T, but as soon as the canter work is introduced he breaks down again after about 3 or 4 weeks (and this is him being lunged twice a week for 20 mins and ridden twice a week for about 40 mins each session). He is happy to run about in the field and go stupid.

It is more noticeable on the downward transitions where he puts in a little extra step with the hind leg and so changes the leg.

Did the vet do a high flexion test on the hind legs? This normally shows up a SI issue straight away, although I can normally tell as you will see a very definite shape of the hindquarters (either one side or both).
 
Thanks CBAnglo - did your horse do it on both reins or just the one? Horse has been flexioned - no probs there. Out of interest what was diagnosis method for yours and subsequent treatment?

Have to say I am very sceptical about going "hunting" for problems - I know full well that if I took 100 horses of completely unknown history and no prior assessment (e.g. flexions, soundness assessment etc) and went looking to see if there was anything wrong, more than 80% would flag something up. For example approx 80% of horses over the age of 6 will have some evidence of arthritis in the fetlock joint). However, horse owners don't routinely have their horses screened when completely healthy and sound so the skill is in identifying whether what is flagged up is causing a problem or normal for the horse (obviously in some cases this is easier to do than others!).

To have a major SI joint issue would be a concern, to have some soft tissue inflammation and tension less so. I dare say the majority of horses would flag up the latter to some degree if it was looked for, and the former would most likely present very clear symptoms. I would also expect, in either case, an improvement on strong painkillers such as bute.

Head is being far to academic and in turn is confuzzling itself!
 
Ginn, my mare showed no signs of lameness or being unlevel, was only "skipping" and changing behind when cantering on the right rein, was sound on flexion, and good in walk and trot both reins though slightly better on the right rein, which led me to suspect (and I was right) that the issue was high up left hind (SI). The only sign of anything else being out of true was when OH (farrier) commented that she seemed to be using her right fore more than the left (so on that diagonal). Since her diagnosis and treatment her fronts have evened up again, and her bum has expanded:) And her work has improved x100.
 
Mine usually does it only one 1 rein - the right one, where he also struggles to bend and flex to the right, as he has corresponding tension in his poll from his pelvis being unlevel. If he is really bad/coming back into work then he does it on both legs initially but then reverts back to only doing it on the right rein unless very fit.

He was diagnosed on a flexion test (but then at the time his pelvis was very unlevel, it was about an inch lower on one side and he could not stand square).

It really depends on what state he is in physically. When he is at his peak, and I have managed to get him supple on both reins, you cannot tell he has any issues as the muscles in the hindquarters are even and he is level behind in both W + T. In the canter, he is fine on the left, on the right we have some reistence and some turning to the outside rein when he will go off the wrong leg until I have worked that side sufficiently for him to be able to bring his hind leg more underneath him or I keep a very strong bend and help him more with my inside leg. This is both on the lunge and under saddle. However, he relies on his topline a lot to keep this all together, so if he is allowed time off work for whatever reason, he then disunites behind in the canter and hops on the right rein in the downward transition (the extra step/turn out routine). He normally has also had Mctimony chiro every 6-8 weeks at this point to release any tension. The treatment period varies and he can go up to 3 months without a treatment (unless he has broken down again).

When he strains the ligament again, he drags the toe of the right hind leg, sometimes both, and is reluctant to lift the leg (farrier cannot get back shoes on him at this point). Bute/painkillers do not make any difference in performance, but they take the edge off the pain for him. Time off makes no difference and he is worse if you try to work through it. At that point he has chiro again and then a period of time off work (depending on the level of strain - anything from 4 days to 4 months over the last 5 yrs) and then he is brought back into work by lunging for 6 weeks, in walk and trot, introducing pole work/canter after 2-3 wks depending on how he is going, and then we start the ridden work at the end of a lunging session, building up from 5 mins of walk to 40 mins of W + T. Then, if I am feeling brave we attempt to bring some canter work in - this usually results in him breaking down, he used to last about 6 months, but just very recently he broke down after 4 wks of canter work under saddle (was cantering happily on the lunge for 8 weeks with only very minor switching behind, always corrected but he did through in the odd little extra step on downward transitions unless I kept a very string strong inside bend thus making it impossible for him to switch).

It progressively gets worse - he used to be ridden 5 times a week and this slowly had to be reduced over the last 5 yrs until now he is only ridden twice a week but he is lunged 2-3 times a week to keep the topline. This is a chronic injury and affects the ligament, not the joint so vet said there was very little I could do except try to keep topline there. He doesnt jump and vet advised he didnt think he would even be able to canter as his injury is quite severe (he was a rescue case - he sustained this injury in previous sj home and they dumped him at a dealer in Dartford, Kent). He is worse when he is out of work, he needs topline to try and keep the front end attached to the back end!

I am not saying your horse has a SI, or any, problem. However, IME if the horse persistently changes behind in canter (and it is not just that it has struck off on the wrong leg, havent got the correct bend) then I would suspect that there is a mechanical issue involved. Young horses will tend to go on the correct leg provided they have the correct bend (even if you have to ask for a very exaggerated bend so they get the idea) or get the idea quickly when you stop and ask again. If it is a case of poor footing/loss of balance, again I would not expect this to be a persistent changing behind. I think you mentioned that you only had a very slippery surface to lunge on - is they are possibility that you could take him to a school to see if he would go better on a better surface?

Incidentally, I only lunge in a bungee rein to encourage inside bend and once he is re-established on the lunge, I dont lunge with anything. I also lunge off the bridle.

I agree, some unscrupulous vets are more than happy to go hunting for something where there is nothing, provided you have insurance!
 
Rowreach - ta muchly. All shoes/feet wearing equally and the bunny hops (more that then changes as there is very little time difference between hinds hitting ground - the changes only seem to occur occasionally) have only happened on lunge, not under saddle, and only at end of lunge session. I suspect there is a muscular niggle in the SI region but I also suspect this is true for most horses. Will keep a very close eye though and very grateful for you sharing your experience. Definitely something to consider if no improvement or deterioration, especially as horse is definitely less straight on the right rein (and always has been) - I will quiz vet again when he is up in next few weeks but I am also aware that if you asked me to perform pretty much any task with my left hand I would be rubbish at it (and is probably a contributing factor to her weaknesses!) and crooked so am also prepared to work on developing strength and coordination on horse's weaker side as this would be a recommendation anyway.

CBAnglo - sounds like your lad has had a tough old time! As I've already said, this is a problem which has manifested only twice on 2 consectutive lunging sessions towards the end on less than ideal ground, with an unbalanced horse. Undersaddle and prior to this week there has been nothing of concern, other than some lack of balance resulting in straightness issues. Does sound like, as in your case strength and suppleness is a major contributing factor (though I fully appreciated for you it is more complex). I *think* the disuniting (and its is not a very clear disunite) is more due to the horse putting both hinds down together/bringing the inside hind down very quickly after and the outside, not really stepping under with either correctly, and *always* followed a slip (due to lack of balance) which I suspect is also largely surface based - on a large (30m) circle, out of a very nice, steady, relaxed trot it does not occur and I have a normal canter, albeit one needing work! Where we had the odd movement was the result of horse falling into canter and rushing forward, falling on the forehand, on a ~20m circle (they were not necessarily asked for! That will teach me to work in a howling gale) BUT they were sufficient for me to come on here and question it.

Hmmm. It's probably also a bit of chicken and egg - one side is likely to be tenser/weaker/sorer as horse isn't equally strong, balanced and supple on both reins, but is the latter creating the soreness or is the soreness and weakness the result of a tweak/niggle/more sinister issue.... I suspect, without spending £££ (possibly unnessarily) time and monitoring will reveal the answer!

Of course it is also entirely possible that I am over analysing this but when I air it with those who know me and horse well I am told I am being a worrier unnecessarily, hence sharing it on here to gain a wider perpective and work through exactly what is happening in my over active brain!
 
Well best of luck, you have a wealth of knowledge given here and know what to look out for, I hope all goes really well for you!
 
Thanks Mik - re: ovaries - could well be an issue in that she is permenantly on Regumate due to a suspected build up of follicles on her ovaries, could be she is feeling a little sensitive/sore with the changing seasons (this is the first year she hasn't had a holiday this year due to hormonal behaviour - thank god for The Wonder Drug ;) ) even though *in theory* her hormones should be flat lined. I suppose if she's sensitive in that area and carrying a little tension from a muscle strain then that won't be helping.

And you are right - lots of useful info for me to refer back to if I continue to suspect a niggle that is more than the possible contributing factors that are not injury/strain related - I am very grateful to all who have shared their thoughts and experiences and helped me clarify (in my own mind - sometimes having to explain things as the need arises helps as trying to get it all down in an OP fails miserably!) as well as giving me other things to think about and be aware of.
 
Ginn said:
I *think* the disuniting (and its is not a very clear disunite) is more due to the horse putting both hinds down together/bringing the inside hind down very quickly after and the outside, not really stepping under with either correctly, and *always* followed a slip (due to lack of balance) which I suspect is also largely surface based - on a large (30m) circle, out of a very nice, steady, relaxed trot it does not occur and I have a normal canter, albeit one needing work! Where we had the odd movement was the result of horse falling into canter and rushing forward, falling on the forehand, on a ~20m circle (they were not necessarily asked for! That will teach me to work in a howling gale) BUT they were sufficient for me to come on here and question it.
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This is what mine does - its like an extra little step/hop so that he is on the wrong leg in the downward transition. However, he will do this when he is experiencing issues with the ligament and it is persistent. If yours has only hopped a couple of times in only 2 sessions, then it is different. Cantering on a 20m circle in a balanced way is going to be tough on a horse coming back into work - if you let them motorbike around on the forehand I think they can pretty much do anything. However it sounds as though yours was slipping and just put the leg down to keep balance - that is pretty normal for any horse and is just instinct. I think you would need to see this persistently happening to determine if there was a problem.

Maybe concentrate on only cantering out on hacks in straight line, asking for canter on the weak leg to build up that side. On the lunge you could do lots of walk and trot, over poles, to really get the hind leg active and improve balance then after a couple of weeks try cantering on the lunge on a large circle. Maybe you could also see if you can hire a school somewhere and see how he works on a surface? Also, get someone to video it - I find it so useful to watch from the outside and behind when I am lunging.

You might also try some in-hand work - I find doing 5-10 mins of leg crossing before and after lunging loosens them up so much more and if he is reluctant to step over with the gammy leg then I can alter the work to deal with that. My horses have been retrained to classical (portugese methods) so I automatically do 5-10 mins of in hand work before I ride/lunge anything now and you can tell so much from in hand work how the horse will ride!
 
Sounds similar to mine, he was difficult on the one rein but fine on the other. He was eventually found to have issues with his sacro-illiac and was treated, I bought him back into work slowly and spent time building him up. I then had him shod on his hinds as his work had increased and he went very lame. He has now been diagnosed with chronic DJD in his hocks. The point here is that he was sound until he was shod behind, so just because your horse is sound it doesn't mean there is not a problem.
 
Ginn, I have the huge advantage of a fantastic vet who listens to me and doesn't overcharge :) It's not the first horse I've taken to him after tearing my hair out and exhausting my brain cells over something that doesn't really manifest itself, described to him what I am seeing/feeling and he takes it from there and I get a diagnosis and treatment for a very reasonable amount:)
 
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