shortstuff99
Well-Known Member
I have a Native Dancer horse and it's the soundest one I've had ?.
It really is just luck.
Buying a better horse than you actually need
- Thread starter Birker2020
- Start date
It really is just luck.
oldie48
Well-Known Member
Sorry but I'm going back to your opening post. My experience has been that horses that cope easily with the work expected of them and who have had a good early education are the easiest to ride and deal with. I struggle a bit with the concept of horses being too good for a rider except when it's because they have very big movement and the rider is unbalanced and weak or for jumping horses, they don't have an economical jump ie they don't jump what's in front of them instead they balloon over everything. tbh when I see pics of horses jumping a cross pole with a massive jump, I don't see that as being a positive. Every horse I have bought for myself has been a competition horse with a verifiable record (mainly eventers) aged 11/12, some have been produced by pros on big yards others not but they have all adapted easily to a slower lifestyle with me because I've looked for a nice temperament. The thing about them having a record is you can check for breaks in competing. Rose is the only one that I've had off work except for something very minor and she's injured herself in the field. I wouldn't spend all my money on the horse because I really value being able to have lots of lessons and the odd pro school if needed. Good luck with your search
Birker2020
Well-Known Member
Thanks for your post. I don't see horses jumping massive over fences as good either especially when you have related strides you have to catch up on! And jump off time wise its a waste of time as those .3 of a seconds they are in the air over each fence are wasted against a careful horse that has an economical jump. My last horse was slow around the course (due to my lack of courage) but quick on turns, I would neck rein her in the air so she knew which leg to land on, she was great, but we were only doing 2ft 9 -3ft courses unaffiliated.
I think the YO was suggesting horse was too good for me because its won loads BS and I only want to potter around the local shows unaffiliated. But its done no dressage and has fabby paces which would be great for me with a bit of jumping interspersed. It's at present out of my price range but I have a clearer idea of what I'm looking for now and can maybe start increasing my budget from £10K and look in the £12 K bracket.
But apparently some people here think I am a pot hunter
which isn't the reason I wanted a school master type of horse. I just wanted something that was safe and that would look after me.
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Goldenstar
Well-Known Member
You need to stop thinking about what others think it’s not relevant to finding the horse you like.
sport horse
Well-Known Member
I think maybe your YO is not familiar with BS! £300 is not loads of winnings. In fact the horse may not have ever jumped more than 90 cm. Have you checked its BS records to see what cases it actually jumped in? It may or may not be suitable for you but at least it would have been out and seen the world and hopefully got over the yung, spooky stage which is qite difficult for a less experienced/confident rider to get through.
Bernster
Well-Known Member
Yup, Bertie has BS winnings and a few BE foundation points but he’s mainly done 90/100cm and provided it doesn’t disqualify us from what I want to do, I take that as a positive. He’s experienced, knows his job (with previous rider admittedly, with me - tbc!) and has a proven record and history.
FireCracker238
Well-Known Member
Maybe thinking outside the box a bit but could it be because the horse market is so strong atm that the yo might be thinking that if you get a horse "better than you need" will you be doing somebody else out of a horse that does require a horse at that level. I'm probably way off but that would be how my brain works, I'm another that thinks too much about what others think ?
ihatework
Well-Known Member
If people think or say you would be a pot hunter then that is their issue. They are either completely ignorant or just plain old jealous. So put that out of your mind!
And spacefarer is right, £300 winnings on an older showjumper is small fry, and could actually mean the horse has been trucking around 90/1m with a moderately competent person in which case it could prove ideal for the job you want. However if it won that as a 4/5yo with a producer and has done begger all since then keep your wits about you. PM me the horse record if you want, I can small Bull ? a mile off
And spacefarer is right, £300 winnings on an older showjumper is small fry, and could actually mean the horse has been trucking around 90/1m with a moderately competent person in which case it could prove ideal for the job you want. However if it won that as a 4/5yo with a producer and has done begger all since then keep your wits about you. PM me the horse record if you want, I can small Bull ? a mile off
Goldenstar
Well-Known Member
Maybe thinking outside the box a bit but could it be because the horse market is so strong atm that the yo might be thinking that if you get a horse "better than you need" will you be doing somebody else out of a horse that does require a horse at that level. I'm probably way off but that would be how my brain works, I'm another that thinks too much about what others think ?
TBH it matters diddly squat why the YOer thinks things and I have no idea why OP is discussing it with her .
Op needs to get a narrow focus on what she needs to do to make a good decision And forget all the white noise around about .
FireCracker238
Well-Known Member
I totally agree, it was just a trail of thought.
Birker2020
Well-Known Member
No my grade B had over £850 so £300 isn't loads but i think its probably enough to take me out of BN and maybe Disco too. So if it was the type of horse that didn't look at fillers and filled me with confidence maybe I would jump BS again, who knows.
I know the Grade B I had meant I could only jump BS foxhunter height, they were genuine winnings not winning according to what year he'd been brought into the country which had which made it impossible to jump anything but unaffiliated open classes at the end of the day. A lot of shows were saying in their classes 'for horses not to have won more than'.
The issue with my last horse was the year she'd been born, they would have stuck me a fox hunter height I believe as she was a 7yr old import. I had to contact three FEI places and get them to fax me over proof she had no winnings in their country before I could compete with a clear record. Things have probably changed since 2004.
I don't know what the rules are now on jumping an affiliated horse around unaffiliated courses whether its membership has expired or not.
Birker2020
Well-Known Member
I know but they are only trying to help me. I appreciate their thoughts and advice. Like my friend doesn't want me to end up with some high maintenance horse with hot blood so I end up having a bad fall when something with a bit of cold blood might suit me better. Thing is I think I'd be bored with that type of horse though. Bailey used to spin and snort and shy but that was just her. She didn't do it all the time but she could be difficult, trouble was people didn't see me fall or get carted off on a spinal board so they had no idea she was like that and just think I'm excagerating. The number of people who I've showed by completely rotational fall from above the saddle line down onto my back in 2014 are gobsmacked that I got up and not only walked off but managed to untack load and drive home.
I know I could always sell something that I didn't get on with and I have someone who could do a sales livery package for me if it didn't work out, but then you get to like them and that's the issue I think I'd find. Hence why I HAVE to select the right horse.
CanteringCarrot
Well-Known Member
How do you know you'd be bored with that type of horse though?
AandK
Well-Known Member
There are open classes at BS at most levels now (90-125cm) so you can compete at 90/100cm at BS if you wanted on a horse with winnings (which are now points looking at BS website, £1 notional = 1 point).
Birker2020
Well-Known Member
Good point and I don't know 100% but I suspect its because the last three out of the past four horses were WB's. The one that wasn't was an ISH x ID and was slow and behind the leg and didn't want to know and I wanted to sell him. He very sadly died before I had chance to.
I don't know for certain but I suppose you wouldn't want to drive a 1.1 car when you've had a nippy 2.5 all your life. I don't know its hard to explain.
Goldenstar
Well-Known Member
Well I now have a less sporty model and they don’t get any sportier than the formula 1 horses I had when I was at my best .
However as you age you react slower and you have to factor that in when you buy as you age .
I miss my out and out competition types but I know at 60 it’s not a good idea .
However as you age you react slower and you have to factor that in when you buy as you age .
I miss my out and out competition types but I know at 60 it’s not a good idea .
Birker2020
Well-Known Member
Yes it is and I didn't mean to upset you (if I have) but the article is fascinating, did you read it?
There are flaws in most breeds.
Someone said to me yesterday that they are breeding WB's to be very hot at the moment whatever that means. I think they meant very high maintenance, need a lot of work, hot headed.
Birker2020
Well-Known Member
Yes I know. I know my friends have my best interests at heart. I just wish I had someone to take with me to viewings. Its so hard. My weight doesn't help, I seriously was pounding the swim lane last night!
nutjob
Well-Known Member
I am currently a member of 2 rc and attend a lot of unaffiliated events of all types. Most have no rules on who or what level of horse can enter. I very rarely see it for very low height SJ at some UAff venues. The exception is BRC area qualifiers and nat champs where the rules are very specific, they have a comprehensive handbook available to download from BHS so if this was important you can check it.
Birker2020
Well-Known Member
That's helpful, thank you.
Yes I think I will probably look at going out every second or third week to a couple of venues and doing an 85 or 95cm class, that's about as much adventuring on the jumping side I want to do realistically. But who knows, if I got a horse that didn't give a stuff about fillers or shafts of sunlight, or what was in the corner of the arena and just jumped then it would fill me with confidence.
My main thing is that I am safe, Bailey God bless her, as much as I loved her she was soooo sharp. After a couple of nasty falls I developed a 'hold back but kick on' seat which probably didn't do any good for either of us, and made her even more cautious than she was already lol.
But when she got in her stride and she'd jumped the same fillers in the previous class I rode so much better as I knew she wouldn't stop, the jumps would go up and she was brilliant.
She was so spooky that she nearly had me off one day because someone had put out a filler to jump which was kept hanging up on the menage fence. It had a different psychedelic pattern on each side. So they took it down from the menage fence and jumped it and then when they'd finished hung it back up not realising the design facing out was a different design to what it had been for the last month or so.
We walked towards it on a long rein and next minute I was facing the other direction, she'd whipped round! Unbelievable I ever got her round a course of fillers really....
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shortstuff99
Well-Known Member
Don't worry, I'm not offended! I did read the article, what is interesting is how many times he was in there. Inbreeding and back crossing is always going to amplify the deleterious genes within a population. If he had a tendency for a weakness then that was certainly going to show in something that inbred.
I'm my case Native Dancer appears once 6 generations back (she is TB x PRE) so I don't worry too much.
For the BS winnings at Riding clubs winnings are automatically downgraded every 12 months the horse isn't registered and so that would go quite quickly.
Sussexbythesea
Well-Known Member
Hope you don’t mind but as someone who’s been there what you eat and how much is more important than exercise. I notice how much exercise you’re doing and whilst good for strength and fitness on its own it’s not really going to give you significant weight loss.
Last year I was too heavy to go on a riding holiday my sister had bought me for my 50th. So I stated the Fast 800 and lost a stone in four weeks enough to get under the weight allowance for the holiday then a further stone and a half. I’ve recently put half a stone back (still 2 stone less than a year ago) on as have veered off healthy eating but I’m just refreshing my food choices again as not only did I lose weight but it made me feel so much better overall. Although called the Fast 800 there are a range of options from 800 (very fast) to 5/2, 4/3 or just using the healthy eating plans and recipes. Nothing low-fat or tasteless included. It’s really about making better food choices and there are other similar plans out there eg Noom.
Birker2020
Well-Known Member
Brilliant, thank you.
The horse I like I really wish I could buy. I'm going to have to hold out and see what comes up in the next few weeks and save like mad in the meantime.
Goldenstar
Well-Known Member
Birker2020, Have a try with Noom it’s been a game changer for me .
Tiddlypom
Carries on creakily
How much does Noom cost? It's expensive, isn't it?
The Fast 800 diet book is under a tenner. You can sign up to a full online support program for about £100 ish but I have just gone ahead with the book.
I did sign up for a week's free trial of the program but decided that all I needed was the book, so I cancelled before the free trial was up.
Also a game changer
.
The Fast 800 diet book is under a tenner. You can sign up to a full online support program for about £100 ish but I have just gone ahead with the book.
I did sign up for a week's free trial of the program but decided that all I needed was the book, so I cancelled before the free trial was up.
Also a game changer
.sport horse
Well-Known Member
I thik you are being fed a load of info by some not very well informed people.
1. You can jump BS Club classes (70 - 90cm) on any horse. The class limits are for horse & rider partnership so if you have won nothing you could ride a Grade A.
2. Nearly every British Novice, Discovery, Newcomers & Foxhunter are run in two sections - one of the sections being open to any horse so you can pick whatever height you want and jump in a class at that height.
3. A warmblood is a cross between a 'hot' blood ( thoroughbred/Arab) and a cold blood (draught type). Nowadays these have largely been inbred each generation rather than reverting to the base TBx Heavy type horse because the breeder will get a much more consistent type of product. For example a straight cross between and TB & say Irish Draught can produce anything from a 15 hand cob to a 17 hand heavyweight hunter. I actually bred one mare to one stallion 5 times and all 5 were totally different sizes and stamps.
4. An ISH is a warmblood as is an ID X TB. People will argue that they mean a warmblood to be a foreign bred horse but the actual fact is the warmblood is Draught x blood.
5. They are breeding warmbloods to be hotter!! Really? Yes the current trend in warmblood breeding is to add more blood (TB or Arab) but that does not necessarily make them hotter. Look at the posts from the many people who have very easy to manage TBs!
If you need help in selecting a suitable horse and your main interest is show jumping try to find a nearby BS Accredited Coach. They should be able to assess your riding and help you find something suitable.
Meanwhile keep on losing weight and getting fitter - congratulations on that I could do to lose a bit too! and try and ride a bit too as it will all help you when trying out horses.
1. You can jump BS Club classes (70 - 90cm) on any horse. The class limits are for horse & rider partnership so if you have won nothing you could ride a Grade A.
2. Nearly every British Novice, Discovery, Newcomers & Foxhunter are run in two sections - one of the sections being open to any horse so you can pick whatever height you want and jump in a class at that height.
3. A warmblood is a cross between a 'hot' blood ( thoroughbred/Arab) and a cold blood (draught type). Nowadays these have largely been inbred each generation rather than reverting to the base TBx Heavy type horse because the breeder will get a much more consistent type of product. For example a straight cross between and TB & say Irish Draught can produce anything from a 15 hand cob to a 17 hand heavyweight hunter. I actually bred one mare to one stallion 5 times and all 5 were totally different sizes and stamps.
4. An ISH is a warmblood as is an ID X TB. People will argue that they mean a warmblood to be a foreign bred horse but the actual fact is the warmblood is Draught x blood.
5. They are breeding warmbloods to be hotter!! Really? Yes the current trend in warmblood breeding is to add more blood (TB or Arab) but that does not necessarily make them hotter. Look at the posts from the many people who have very easy to manage TBs!
If you need help in selecting a suitable horse and your main interest is show jumping try to find a nearby BS Accredited Coach. They should be able to assess your riding and help you find something suitable.
Meanwhile keep on losing weight and getting fitter - congratulations on that I could do to lose a bit too! and try and ride a bit too as it will all help you when trying out horses.
splashgirl45
Lurcher lover
i am quite a bit older than birker and have always had tb crosses and warmblood crosses. the last warmblood cross i had was very spooky and challenging and i did think of selling when id had her for 6 months but soldiered on and had her for 15 years, these horses are my preferred type and i would like similar. good movement, good looking and with a presence about them BUT i know that a similar horse would now knock my confidence so if i was looking i would go for a lightweight cob who was safe even though my heart would say otherwise. so if you want safety dont rule out irish drafts or similar you may be surprised how much fun you can have with a sensible horse and you can improve the trot quite easily, i know valegro is wb but standing still, if you didnt know what he can do, he looks like a nice type but not spectacular....
Caol Ila
Well-Known Member
I think it's not so simple as warmblood = hot+ cold blood. I had a Shire-TBx, F1, and I would not have described her as a "warmblood." I said Shire-TBx to anyone who asked. As I understand it, "warmblood" means something that can be entered into the various WB registries based on breeding and performance. WBs are many, many generations removed from someone shoving a Thoroughbred into the same paddock as a Shire, and it might not have been so simple as that, since a lot of them trace back to carriage horses, which were refined with TB/Arab (like many types of horses), but were not heavy drafts.
Here's an old thread on it, and some of the posters are very knowledgeable (I miss Tarrsteps): https://forums.horseandhound.co.uk/threads/warm-blood-what-does-it-actually-mean.102382/
Here's an old thread on it, and some of the posters are very knowledgeable (I miss Tarrsteps): https://forums.horseandhound.co.uk/threads/warm-blood-what-does-it-actually-mean.102382/
I'm Dun
Well-Known Member
Is that something you want to happen now? Do you want to ride something sharp so much that you are prepared to put up with the risks? You are older now and out of practice riding which makes it even riskier. That sort of accident can finish riding for you permanently even when young and fit. Recovery time is a lot longer as you get older, and injuries tend to be worse when you are carrying a bit of weight yourself. Its something you really need to think about.
The other thing to consider is that you say you want to be out competing a lot, do you or is it just what you used to and therefore feel like you should do? You have such a set idea in your head about what you want, and it will be so hard to find in this current market. Just ruling out mares takes out 50% of horses, and you've had a mare you clearly adored so it makes no sense.
A sensible, easy going horse is not a lazy plod. Mines safe as houses but hes forward and off the leg, and loves jumping.
As we get older we tend to move to the easier horses for good reason. I know I dont find sharp horses any fun at all anymore and am very fussy about what I get on. I dont have the same ability I used to and dont want to come off and get badly hurt. You might not feel the same way, but its worth thinking about.
sport horse
Well-Known Member
Warmblood is the product of a hot blood (TB/Arab) and a cold blood (draight type). Hot + cold = warm. Yes of course as the breeds have evolved they hae been inbred and registered with many stud books but the temperaments of a warmblood cannot be descibed as hot/cold/exciteable etc. There are probably over 100,000 foals born annually that can be descibed as warmblood and their temperament will vary enormously. Esperienced breeders will be able to tell you from the bloodlines the likely behaviour patterns of the offspring. Certainly many of the dressage bloodlines are 'hotter' than those of the show jumping lines but that is a massive generalisation.