Buying a better horse than you actually need

[Birker2020]

I mean this in the nicest possible way Birker so please don't take offence but I think you need to temper your excitement a little and maybe only worry about these things once you've seen the horse in question rather than thinking through every single thing the second you see an advert for something that might be worth a look. You might get there and really not like him - that wouldn't be wasting anyone's time, it's just one of those things.

So far you've thought that every single horse you've seen is going to be the one and none of them have been. I get it, I was the same to a certain extent but soon learned not to get my hopes up too much to protect myself from the disappointment. By all means go to see him but go with an open mind rather than thinking because he's already doing more than you would want to do he must be perfect.

Yes my partner has said that too so you are right I know, I haven't taken offence. I'm finding it far harder than I thought. Not just because I can't find a horse but being at the yard, its so hard for me. I'm fine whilst I'm there but then driving out that gate the tears flow and I've not visited once where I haven't driven home sobbing and spent the evening in deep despair because I miss my horse and my routine so much.

When I think back to the horses I've bought before 4 out of 6 of them were brilliant horses. 3 of them were my first viewing and all of them passed with flying colours. Things are so much harder now. I really think with the cold weather we will no doubt be due and the rain/mud/cold the price will be going down and there will be more of the type I want out there.

Thank you everyone for helping me - I really do appreciate it.

 

[milliepops]

I'd just be conscious that established horses often don't automatically turn into schoolmasters.These horses are often used to very confident riders who balance them, get them the right speed and can place to them fences. I've seen SO many times people buying horses like this and thinking they will cruise around lower courses and it doesn't always turn out that way. it might, but not always. horses like that can turn into very tricky animals with amateur riders, the problems can range from them not being used to carrying unbalanced riders, to not liking riders with unsteady hands or aids. To just realising they not need to worry about knocking poles, or realising they can just run out. It all depends on the horses temperament. But there's no guarantee it will suit an amateur rider automatically.

I think with buying higher level quality horses your main thought has to be 'do I have the potential to be the rider this horse needs?' rather than 'can this horse downgrade to do a lower level'

I think this is an excellent point. If I was to sell my little mare who is training a little of all the GP work she would need to be bought by someone also riding towards that level - hoping you could cruise round some novice tests and have a lovely time would be a complete disaster because although she's more educated she's still the tricky horse she always was (her funny temperament is what made her trainable to this level really).

there's a particular kind of horse that can "downgrade" as you've put it to be a straightforward and enjoyable ride, and owners normally know what they have and will put that on the advert - you'd just need to either accept or steer round the ones which need to step down for a physical reason.

 

[sport horse]

It sounds as though your horse is your main hobby so as the cost of keepng it etc is huge and you should not worry about buying one 'that is too good for you'. Buy the one tht you are sure will go out week in and week out and do what you enjoy doing. If it has done more than you ever will require, then you can hope that it will find the work you need very easy and will continue to perform very competently at your level and in so doing give you great pleasure. That is why you keep a horse!

Be very selective and try everything several times. If because the market is a bit 'hot' something sells before you have tried it enough, then it was not meant to be. Save your livery costs and each month your budget will rise. You may or may not need to spend it all.

Lastly be open minded about vettings. Vets do not pass or fail horses and very very few go through vetting without some comments. Talk carefully with your vet about their findings and whether in their opinion it is likley to affect the horse given the type of work you will be expecting. There are far too many very novicey riders turning down horses that in all honesty might not stand up to international level competitions but will hack around and do riding club work quite happily for many years.

Good luck - your horse will find you soon.

 

[AdorableAlice]

The horse in my avatar was exactly what the OP describes. Schooled and competed by Olympic dressage rider. I down graded him to compete him, he was the ultimate schoolmaster with every button in place. Viewing went well, tried him twice under intense pressure. Danced across the arena in a flurry of two times, none of them requested. Bounced down to 1.20, jumped out of my hands and I wet myself.

Had a lesson on him with Olympic dressage rider, she said extend down the long side, he did half pass across the arena. I assume a bit of fat wobbled and he had a guess at what I was asking of him.

Got him home and realised I couldn't ride one side of him and had lots of falls and problems. Best horse I have ever had, prolific champion in the show ring and dressage arena. Would I do it again ? absolutely not !. He is now 27 and remains a full of presence upstanding horse who I love the very bones of.

In advancing age I now realise that you need to buy a horse to suit your needs, and that might not be a big moving flashy competition horse.

 

[ihatework]

On one hand I would say if you like a horse and have the money then you really shouldn’t worry about buying one that’s ‘too good’.

But on the other hand there will be some in the ‘too good’ category that will adapt to amateur lower level stuff straight off, some that will do the job provided new partnership invests heavily in training and some that really won’t at all ever. The latter could wreck you physically/mentally.

Spending more money doesn’t actually assure you a better or more suitable horse.

The one thing that jumps out at me is that you say you haven’t had more than 10 lessons in the last 5 years? That would worry me. You will be rusty and habituated to your one horse and it’s inevitable that some skill will have been lost - I’m in exactly that position!!

Perhaps, while ‘the one’ eludes you it would be prudent to go for some weekly schoolmaster lessons to tune yourself up?

 

[teapot]

In the short term I'd be having lessons on various schoolmasters, both those that have every button to press when you sneeze, and those that you can put your granny on. That will definitely help you guide what you should be looking at, and it'll tune you up a bit. Why the lack of lessons out of interest?

I think too many people forget there are two types of schoolmaster, I know which one I'd rather buy!

 

[Birker2020]

On one hand I would say if you like a horse and have the money then you really shouldn’t worry about buying one that’s ‘too good’.

But on the other hand there will be some in the ‘too good’ category that will adapt to amateur lower level stuff straight off, some that will do the job provided new partnership invests heavily in training and some that really won’t at all ever. The latter could wreck you physically/mentally.

Spending more money doesn’t actually assure you a better or more suitable horse.

The one thing that jumps out at me is that you say you haven’t had more than 10 lessons in the last 5 years? That would worry me. You will be rusty and habituated to your one horse and it’s inevitable that some skill will have been lost - I’m in exactly that position!!

Perhaps, while ‘the one’ eludes you it would be prudent to go for some weekly schoolmaster lessons to tune yourself up?

I haven't been able to do anything with my horse for the five years prior to putting her down and I was always one who would rather go out and compete rather than have a lesson as I always considered them boring. We got from nothing to unaffiliated elementary, I taught myself and just followed the test sheet or watched how people rode tests on youtube or at competition. I took her out jumping from nothing, the first time we went jumping I'd only had her a week and we did a clear round and a 2ft 9" SJ derby complete with dike and bank and came 5th.

So its not that I was incapable, I'm just rusty. But if I was to ride every day I'd soon pick it up again and we have someone on the yard I would try and have a weekly or fortnightly lesson with this time around.

 

[Birker2020]

In the short term I'd be having lessons on various schoolmasters, both those that have every button to press when you sneeze, and those that you can put your granny on. That will definitely help you guide what you should be looking at, and it'll tune you up a bit. Why the lack of lessons out of interest?

I think too many people forget there are two types of schoolmaster, I know which one I'd rather buy!

I was never interested in lessons, I just wanted to go out and have fun and experience competing my new horse. Some people like having lessons, others like going out, I was always in the going out camp. That was what I wanted to do and we did okay. But for me it was always the taking part, I never cared if I won or not. Don't get me wrong I'd try and we have boards full of rosettes but it was just being out on my horse and having some fun that I wanted.

 

[Annagain]

Yes my partner has said that too so you are right I know, I haven't taken offence. I'm finding it far harder than I thought. Not just because I can't find a horse but being at the yard, its so hard for me. I'm fine whilst I'm there but then driving out that gate the tears flow and I've not visited once where I haven't driven home sobbing and spent the evening in deep despair because I miss my horse and my routine so much.

When I think back to the horses I've bought before 4 out of 6 of them were brilliant horses. 3 of them were my first viewing and all of them passed with flying colours. Things are so much harder now. I really think with the cold weather we will no doubt be due and the rain/mud/cold the price will be going down and there will be more of the type I want out there.

Thank you everyone for helping me - I really do appreciate it.

I totally get it. It took me 14 months to find Charlie (and I'm still not convinced he's the one but that's a separate issue). It will do you much more good emotionally to go to viewings hoping for the best but expecting the worst, the disappointment is easier to deal with if you've only built yourself up to a 5 rather than a 9 in expectation levels. There's not much you can do about viewings making you miss your old horse but at least the disappointment won't compound it.

You're looking for pretty much what I was looking for - even though it seems like there's a lot out there, there isn't that much of the right quality (good enough but not 'too good') Having had Charlie a year now I think I probably should have gone a bit older. I didn't because I wanted a 20 year horse as he's probably going to be my last but with hindsight, I should have thought a bit more short term. I'll keep plugging away (today's mood, yesterday I was in tears thinking about selling him) and hope / take steps to make sure he is that 20 year horse. You're that little bit older than me so maybe a 10 year horse is ok - up to say 15yrs old? It just opens up the market a bit.

 

[AdorableAlice]

In the short term I'd be having lessons on various schoolmasters, both those that have every button to press when you sneeze, and those that you can put your granny on. That will definitely help you guide what you should be looking at, and it'll tune you up a bit. Why the lack of lessons out of interest?

I think too many people forget there are two types of schoolmaster, I know which one I'd rather buy!

You can learn on the ones that passage when you sneeze, but I do think you need to have ridden a very educated horse (which I had) before buying one of these and to have an open mind about having a lot of lessons with them and being prepared for some disappointments especially if you don't want to adapt your riding to suit them. The problem I ran into was the horse I lost, I had had from a foal and reared him to 13 years with lots of lessons. He was at aff medium when he died and winning HW hunter classes. When I went buying again I was looking for another one of him, which of course, there wasn't. The more so called 'educated' horses I tried the more disappointed I got. I had some horror rides including getting bucked off two and trying two that were on happy pills. Not impressed when I had driven 300 miles to try it.

One persons idea of an educated horse may not be your idea of educated and I had a real eye opener, along with huge realisation of what I had lost.

When I travelled all the way down to Surrey and climbed on the bay horse I finally had an educated ride and fell for him immediately, plus I unashamedly admit I do like a correct horse and he was in spades, correct. Handsome is as handsome does of course, but I prefer not to have a moose looking over the door. Even Ted the Twit is handsome which makes the 6am crawl out of bed to care for him acceptable.

Either way, the highly schooled schoolmaster or the put your granny on schoolmaster, of which I am fortune enough to have one of those too, except she has health issues, are very very hard to come by regardless of how much money you have to throw at finding one. Both are hens teeth and so they should be because who wants to part with them. My horse days are pretty much done, but I do sympathise with those of you looking for horses, it is an impossible task.

 

[sport horse]

I was never interested in lessons, I just wanted to go out and have fun and experience competing my new horse. Some people like having lessons, others like going out, I was always in the going out camp. That was what I wanted to do and we did okay. But for me it was always the taking part, I never cared if I won or not. Don't get me wrong I'd try and we have boards full of rosettes but it was just being out on my horse and having some fun that I wanted.



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It is all very well just wanting to go out and compete and that you can watch others and learn. Yes indeed you can and should BUT you do also need to have training. You cannot see what you are doing yourself when you are riding so it is essential to have good eyes 'on the floor'. All the top riders do and so should you.

 

[Birker2020]

It is all very well just wanting to go out and compete and that you can watch others and learn. Yes indeed you can and should BUT you do also need to have training. You cannot see what you are doing yourself when you are riding so it is essential to have good eyes 'on the floor'. All the top riders do and so should you.

Yes I expect I should have but didn't see the need at the time and I had a good reason for going straight out. It wasn't that I didn't have lessons because I thought I was too good, I never thought like that because I wasn't. Like I say I will probably do things differently this time around. It is completely different circumstance now. At the time I wasn't earning the money I am on now so I couldn't afford to do both. Like I say it was a different time in my life and I expect I would do things differently now and compete one weekend and have a lesson the next or something.

Anyway this is digressing from my original post somewhat.

 

[nutjob]

Having upped my budget twice since spending more than a year trying to buy a horse I would say that you are still likely to find lame and unsuitable horses for sale at absolutely shocking prices. What people will do and say sucks the life out of you.

Buy a horse that is better than you need if it meets your requirements and you can afford it. The extra money up front is trivial compared with ongoing costs. I would want to keep some cash in reserve due to my previous experiences and I don't want to find I am making decisions based on lack of funds. I do think the market has peaked now and that waiting it out for the right horse is the way to go good luck anyway, you are certainly not alone with this experience!

 

[MuddyMonster]

Just picking up on a comment in your first post, do you need a flashy, big moving WB type with a lot of presence?

I wonder if you'll get more choice in your current budget if you look a bit outside of these parameters.

In reality - however much I think he's gorgeous - my gelding is quite plain looking & an even plainer mover but he's given me so much fun & turned his hoof to all sorts over the years as he's fundamentally sensible & tough (if not with a fair dash of native pony character ).

If you want to go out and have fun safely, a sound, fun but not very flashy horse could do the job just as well and might offer more up to you in the current market?

Of course, I totally understand you might have a non-negiotable type and want to stick to that.

 

[sport horse]

Having upped my budget twice since spending more than a year trying to buy a horse I would say that you are still likely to find lame and unsuitable horses for sale at absolutely shocking prices. What people will do and say sucks the life out of you.

I would say it works both ways. Buyers also need to learn to describe things that they want. It does not matter how long you have ridden, you are not an experienced rider if you have only ridden a patent safety pony!! I occasionally sell an odd home bred horse that I do not think will reach top level - to me that is Grand Prix ie jumping 1.50. I am always honest and anything I sell will have jumped to 1.20 at least. I get riders who cannot even steer the horse to 20 cms and I have to ask them to get off!! The sad thing is that they think they are capable of producing a young horse when in reality they will never attain the level even our 5 year olds jump.

Reality checks and honesty all round are needed to avoid time wasting on both sides

 

[ihatework]

Yes I expect I should have but didn't see the need at the time and I had a good reason for going straight out. It wasn't that I didn't have lessons because I thought I was too good, I never thought like that because I wasn't. Like I say I will probably do things differently this time around. It is completely different circumstance now. At the time I wasn't earning the money I am on now so I couldn't afford to do both. Like I say it was a different time in my life and I expect I would do things differently now and compete one weekend and have a lesson the next or something.

Anyway this is digressing from my original post somewhat.

It’s really not digressing from the original post. You are asking about buying a horse ‘that’s too good’. I think you are missing my point - it shouldn’t be about buying it, keeping your fingers crossed and playing catch up!

I really think you should be riding a variety of horses under tuition PRIOR to considering spending big on a horse.

To put it into perspective, I’ve ridden nationally at medium level. BE evented and even though I don’t ride competitively any more I do sit on (hacking/cantering) top class fit event horses fairly frequently. I plan to ride away 2 decent 3 year olds next year. I’ll be spending some time at Talland before I do!

 

[Birker2020]

I would say it works both ways. Buyers also need to learn to describe things that they want. It does not matter how long you have ridden, you are not an experienced rider if you have only ridden a patent safety pony!! I occasionally sell an odd home bred horse that I do not think will reach top level - to me that is Grand Prix ie jumping 1.50. I am always honest and anything I sell will have jumped to 1.20 at least. I get riders who cannot even steer the horse to 20 cms and I have to ask them to get off!! The sad thing is that they think they are capable of producing a young horse when in reality they will never attain the level even our 5 year olds jump.

Reality checks and honesty all round are needed to avoid time wasting on both sides

That's why I am looking in the 7 to 11 year age range as i know i don't want a youngster.

 

[Birker2020]

It’s really not digressing from the original post. You are asking about buying a horse ‘that’s too good’. I think you are missing my point - it shouldn’t be about buying it, keeping your fingers crossed and playing catch up!

I really think you should be riding a variety of horses under tuition PRIOR to considering spending big on a horse.

To put it into perspective, I’ve ridden nationally at medium level. BE evented and even though I don’t ride competitively any more I do sit on (hacking/cantering) top class fit event horses fairly frequently. I plan to ride away 2 decent 3 year olds next year. I’ll be spending some time at Talland before I do!

I'm not able to have lessons at present due to weight limitations.

 

[ihatework]

I'm not able to have lessons at present due to weight limitations.

That’s a tricky position to be in, you have my sympathy on that front. I’ve had a very tough year addressing my weight to get to a position where I feel fit enough to ride nice horses. It’s very difficult, so I wish you all the best in hitting the target!

 

[Bernster]

Slightly off track, and it’s a shame restrictions mean you can’t get lessons atm. I was a bit worried about my weight when I was trying. I told buyers that I was looking for a middle weight within a height range. Checking back on my messages, I didn’t say what weight it needed to carry but I did send some videos of me riding to check it was viable. Woild be awful to have pitched up and be told I’m too heavy to try the horse ?

 

[Goldenstar]

Atm I think it’s easier to find the more expensive flashy competition types .

 

[teddy_]

I don't suppose the horse cares whether it's jumping round a 90 or a 1.40.

Providing they have a nice field, comfy bed and full tummy .

If you think you and the horse are well matched and you like the type, go for it.

 

[nutjob]

I would say it works both ways. Buyers also need to learn to describe things that they want. It does not matter how long you have ridden, you are not an experienced rider if you have only ridden a patent safety pony!! I occasionally sell an odd home bred horse that I do not think will reach top level - to me that is Grand Prix ie jumping 1.50. I am always honest and anything I sell will have jumped to 1.20 at least. I get riders who cannot even steer the horse to 20 cms and I have to ask them to get off!! The sad thing is that they think they are capable of producing a young horse when in reality they will never attain the level even our 5 year olds jump.

This is nothing like the experience I am describing now of todays horse buying situation. I am talking about horses which have a lateral walk, bunny hop in canter, obviously lame, hind legs continually tripping, no passport, passport is a copy (so unable to verify the breeding that they claim), vendor unable to supply video of horse trotting up and away sound. Videos supplied are months or years old and can be from horses previous home. Horse goes crazy and ditches you off within seconds of mounting. Unable to establish who is actually the owner of horse as on "sales livery", selling for a friend etc. Horse sold to someone else unseen, unvetted with days of advertising (obviously not vendor fault, just the market). Horse got snotty nose when you arrive, painfully thin, saddle doesn't fit........ I could go on. Deposit put on horse and stolen by dealer who then decided to sell horse to someone else (£500 out of pocket now going to small claims). None of this has anything to do with my inadequate riding.

@Birker2020 you have my sympathy

 

[MuddyMonster]

Atm I think it’s easier to find the more expensive flashy competition types .

Oh really?! Perhaps ignore my post then Birker!

 

[Christmascinnamoncookie]

If you like him, he's not too much of a handful and you can afford him I don't see the problem with that. He doesn't lie awake at night wishing he was at Hickstead.

So this. No horse is desperate to go round Badminton!

 

[Red-1]

I have just been looking for a smaller version of what you are after. Something that is still 'nice' but that has more of a leg at each corner feel, as I am older and more creaky myself now.

I would say, don't get too excited for each viewing. I found stacks that were lame/unsuitable, mostly that owners knew it really too. I also found many flashy types, that I would have ridden a few years ago, but now just didn't feel good. A couple that were to specification, but that I couldn't out my finger on why I didn't feel comfortable on them. They were the hardest actually, the ones that were as described, sound, but where I was looking forward to getting off.

As a wise friend once said, "you sometimes have to kiss a lot of frogs to find your prince," and she was correct. Sometimes you strike gold first time, but often it is a slog.

I did double my budget, in the end I was looking at over 20K, for something that didn't have to be a world beater. Just something nice! A little competition experience, a nice hack, sound and not crazy, age up to 12. Was still being gazumped at that price, and I could go any day of the week, not just weekends!

That is why, in desperation, after almost 8 months, I bought unseen, only it wasn't unseen as I saw a video. He smiled through his bridle, and was described as very kind. Would I recommend doing that? No. Very risky. I was lucky.

I did have a get-out, in that a friend would have taken him on sales livery if he didn't suit (although I very much only bought to keep for me). As it is, I would have bought him if I had tried him, so that particular gamble did pay off. He is much less 'flashy' than my previous horses, but I just want to have fun and he should be capable of grassroots stuff in due course, which is all I now want. He was younger than intended, but I have previous experience in babies and the lower price has left money for lessons.

I really feel for you. Horse buying should be fun, but it seemed so hard this time! At least you have a stable ready for only a nominal fee. One day you will go view one and, when your bum hits the saddle, you will know it is the right one. It is that feeling of coming home and not wanting to get off. When that happens I wouldn't dally and go for 2nd viewings in this climate, I would snap their hand off and not leave the yard without paying a deposit!

 

[Tiddlypom]

Getting your weight down to a point where you can have lessons is a real focus. Losing weight will open up your horse buying options too.

I'm not just lecturing, I'm currently shifting my own lockdown weight gain in order to feel comfortable to be riding my own wonky mare, who has been pronounced fit to ride again after suffering a major pelvic injury.

 

[Peglo]

Sad to hear your last viewing didn’t go well. I so hope you find your new horse soon. I also bought blind and so far has been everything and more that I’d hoped. (Other than not doing as much as I would like with her but that’s me, not her) I’ve never believed in love at first sight but just a picture of her and she was stuck in my head. Hope it’s as easy for you when you finally find your new horse.
As for your initial question, I hope so as most horses are better than me ? If the horse isn’t highly strung, absolutely fine.

 

[mini_b]

I assume a bit of fat wobbled and he had a guess at what I was asking of him.

Omg that did make me laugh!

 

[Birker2020]

I totally get it. It took me 14 months to find Charlie (and I'm still not convinced he's the one but that's a separate issue). It will do you much more good emotionally to go to viewings hoping for the best but expecting the worst, the disappointment is easier to deal with if you've only built yourself up to a 5 rather than a 9 in expectation levels. There's not much you can do about viewings making you miss your old horse but at least the disappointment won't compound it.

You're looking for pretty much what I was looking for - even though it seems like there's a lot out there, there isn't that much of the right quality (good enough but not 'too good') Having had Charlie a year now I think I probably should have gone a bit older. I didn't because I wanted a 20 year horse as he's probably going to be my last but with hindsight, I should have thought a bit more short term. I'll keep plugging away (today's mood, yesterday I was in tears thinking about selling him) and hope / take steps to make sure he is that 20 year horse. You're that little bit older than me so maybe a 10 year horse is ok - up to say 15yrs old? It just opens up the market a bit.

Yep agree. But not too old as they are more likely to develop joint issues. But then so could a four year old i know.