Buying a foal

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humph

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I'm looking to buy a foal, most probably a 2010 foal because I'm pregnant at the moment and just think it'd be more sensible to wait until I've had my baby.

Anyway, I'm keen to buy something with the potential to event at top level.

I'm a bit confused because initially I was swayed by BEF futurity gradings but on investigating certain bloodlines I've noticed that some studs do brilliantly at the futurity but their youngstock doesn't go on to compete successfully at anything but the lower levels.

Since I've got all this time to find the perfect foal, can anyone give me some really good advice as to where to look - it just seems a minefield. So many foals that are well looked after look beautiful and depending on what age you see them at it's so difficult to judge their conformation, etc.

I plan on buying this foal to bring on and break myself and event it but if it get's too good for me to pass on to a 4* eventing friend to ride. Ideally it wouldn't have too much warmblood in it as I love TBs but also like the selle francais and perhaps a bit of Irish courage, but should be predominantly TB.

I'm prepared to pay to get a good one but I've seen some that are very highly priced and seem on paper to have good bloodlines until you research the progeny of the parents which are unspectacular.

I realise mentioning/questioning the futurity will get debate flowing but I'd really rather not lead to contention but get advice on where to find this perfect foal!

Many thanks in advance
 
I think it's not entirely fair to go by futurity results - it hasn't been going all that long so even the oldest at the 1st year of grading would only have been 7 this year if I'm right, so you wouldn't expect them to be out winning advanceds! Since you have the luxury of time why don't you visit several studs and breeders? You could also have a look if there are certain lines in older established eventers that appeal, and go down that route.
 
A lot of studs don't take their foals to the futurities either, it doesn't mean they are less lovely though. Mine did not go as they were late foals and the nearest venue was oversubscribed already, even on the 2nd date.

Also some studs are in the middle of competitions then so can't go either.

The social worker in me worries about the abundance of use of "perfect foal" lol, but that aside, you cannot go on progeny successes of the parents either, as it could be their foals could have done very well at higher level, but were not sold to competition homes.

Plenty of wonderful foals and younstock out there though and we are definitely breeding foals just as good as those in Europe right now
 
Sorry, didn't explain myself clearly - I don't mean that those horses that did well at the gradings didn't make successful eventers but rather those studs who have had great success at the gradings seem not to have such success actually eventing and that those dams and sires that have successful offspring at the futurities have older stock that have failed eventing, or at least no stock that has succeeded. It's quite tricky to get my tongue around the wording so I hope this helps!
 
I think the problem here is that when you study the BEF results they actually have no reflection on what is happening in the real competition world.

Most stallions/mares are dead before there progeny come to a fore so you will actually need a crystal ball when buying a foal!

When you look at some of the stallions for eventing which have successful progeny, these stallions have hundreds of progeny on the ground and statistic will show that some will end up being ridden by professionals and will come through the ranks. Others never make the grade and the majority enjoy a long and happy life never being asked to compete outside of the comfort zone.

I like a good sound mare line, one that has competed to a resonable level and even better if ridden by an amateur and then by a TB stallion. Maybe old fashion but the formula works.

The BEF are full young british bred horses with a lot of mixed continental blood - we are probably at least 10 years minimum away from knowing if the BEF is pushing breeders in the right direction as unfortunately we seem to be followers of fashion - so if the evaluaters objectively like a type then more of that type will be bred moving us away from the traditional and proven british event horse
 
I agree it's difficult to know how well success at the Futurities will be mirrored or otherwise in the sport itself. The oldest horses we've put through the Futurity are still only 5. One has already won at Novice level with a double clear and qualified for the BE Young Horse Champs. The other is my stallion whose career has got off to a slower start because he's been so busy at stud but still had a double clear and was 3rd at only his second run at Intro. He was the No.1 ranked Sire of Eventers at the Futurity this year which we were very excited about as he's still so young.

Of our older stock - the two 8 yr olds we had - one was sold to America, and the other sadly was PTS. Of the 7 year olds - one is now being placed at Intermediate level and jumping double clears, another was jumping double clears at Novice but his owner couldn't afford to compete him this year, and the 3rd was sadly PTS after not recovering from a colic op.

All of our younger stock will be coming out in due course and it will be very interesting for us, to see how well the assessment of their inherant ability at the Futurity does actually match up to their ability in the sport (or not). I guess only time will tell. Over the last 4 years of the BEF Futurities, we're so thrilled to have bred the Highest Graded Event Foal 3 times, so if performance does follow anywhere close to the evaluation results, we're very excited about what our youngsters might achieve with a bit of luck and a following wind
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Thanks horsenut for mentioning us - breeding Event Horses is our specialty, so we certainly do have the sort of stock the OP might be looking for.
 
So where are your stallion results on the BE site as have just looked out of interest and it shows two entries, both at BE90 one completion but with 60 XC penalties and the other Withdrawn. No mention of DC or placings. BE normally is good with its records!
 
Plus he was the leading sire of "potential" eventers as those evaluated are only foals to 3yo inclusive. Im not trying to take anything away from this remarkable achievement - you are lucky enough to own a pool of very good mares which have indeed produced you some lovely foals. Well done.
 
i would highly recommend the Louella Stud.

they have generations of horses who have come up with the goods time and time again, good old fashioned bloodlines and very reasonable prices.

i bought my now 3yro gelding as a weanling from them- by Primitive Proposal (Primitive Rising) out of a Criminal Law/Gort Boy mare who has progeny out getting placed at Intermediate as 7 and 8yros.

my boy only cost £2250 and is very highly rated by two successful 4**** riders as a horse who looks to have a lot of potential- i was inundated with riders who wanted to take him on next season!
 
I think that often the best gems are ones sold through word of mouth/ringing up the breeders- A lot of the people who have been at the top of their game in eventing now privately breed quite a few of their own horses, but you would never hear about them unless you knew them personally or heard about it through word of mouth. They dont tend to go to the Futurities.They have used very well bred/four star event mares and put them to class stallions and sometimes have stock for sale for good prices. In this area there are a few siblings to some good eventers, for example the breeders of Midnight Dazzler have bred quite a few out of the same dam as Dazzler, and the owner/breeder of the old Rock King sometimes breeds a few out of some very good mares. Some of the FEI dressage/event stewards/judges sometimes breed a few. But stock are only for sale from time to time and you would not hear about them unless you rang up to ask, if they did not have anything, then they may know of people who do.

The Opposition stud would be another place to make enquiries.
 
Wow, thank you all - what a mountain of information you've all given me and thank you as well to all of those of you that have pm-d me too with equally helpful information.

With my 17 month daughter having been ill all this week, my mind isn't quite on foal shopping but I'm going to start researching all this info when we're backing in the land of the living.

O_B, that's exactly what I thought and I've heard about a lovely sounding gelding this way but he sounds rather cocky and characterful (hence having been gelded!) so I'm not sure if that's the best foal to start my venture with. Will start spreading the word next season and see what crops up.

Thank you all, and those individual studs that have replied, I'll mark your card and get in touch once i've delved deeper. In the meantime, please feel free to post other recommendations because it all helps.

Many thanks,
 
Ok, if I were looking then I'd be looking for offspring from studs whose progeny have caught my eye on the circuit over the last couple of years, and whose horses have a reputation for ridability (being an amateur).

I know I wouldn't cope with a really talented Opposition horse, so probably would discount them.

The ones who really stand out for me at the moment are the Stormhill horses, who seem to be very brave XC and really nice types, I would kill for a foal by Wish Upon a Star (actually, a 3yo as I haven't the time, experience or facilities for a foal but you know what I mean!), or something from the Llangarth stud. Those would be the first 3 I'd go and see personally.

Hope the illness is all over and done with now and you can catch up on some sleep!
 
Well the same ones that you've mentioned have caught my eye but I was worried they might just be a fashion thing.

Certainly wish upon a star is doing fantastically well, and there's a foal by him on horsequest but by next year his offspring will have doubled, if his competition record remains in the ascendant.

I'd heard the same about the opposition bloodlines and yet was bowled over by opposition buzz in action, albeit at a rate of knots! They are generally such beautiful horses and I agree that FSH have some fantastic mares to put the Opposition blood to but, the word on the street does unnerve me a bit, although they are admittedly fine looking horses, proven so by their success at the BEF.

Stormhill seem to have had a lot of good press recently and their competition success speaks for itself. I see that they don't generally sell until their youngstock is 3/4 yrs old although they have a couple of foals from this year that they are selling. It'd be interesting to see if they will sell any next year.

I've also had a chance to look up Springfield Symphony that simsar recommended earlier and he looks to be pretty impressive, albeit young. There's something about the look on his face and his even temperament that really catches my eye. I see that the stud are putting his mother to primitive propsoal which might be an interesting mix.

Funnily having said that, I've only just spotted millitiger's post recommending the louella stud - must tootle off and have a look at them as I do think PP is gorgeous.

Another one I'm tempted by is a 3yr old stallion by jaguar mail. He's just had his first crop of foals but is obviously totally unproven, but the bloodlines are good - with both blood, movement and most importantly a good jump.

Hmm, I think I'm getting more and more baffled the more information I soak up.

Thanks T, V has been puking, had a sky high temp and diahorrea and is now covered in a very vivid rash all over. Just got back from our 2nd visit to the doc in as many days. Not fun.
 
My thoughts on the Opposition horses were formed after sitting on two of them - very nicely produced horses, great jump, not for me personally as I think there would be a god-awful clash of personalities. That's not to say I'd discount all Opposition horses, just that I would want one which I could sit on to confirm that wasn't the case before I bought it, which you can't do with a foal.

I suspect a lot of Stormhill youngstock go unadvertised, I'd get in touch with them.

I don't think it's a fashion thing as I know sweet FA about breeding, I just know that time and again when I have thought 'oh that's nice' on the circuit, at a variety of levels right up to A, the prefix has often been Stormhill or Llangarth. I just like WUAS and think his stock will be worth a small fortune if he continues in the same vein and passes on his attitude and ability, and I love his temperament and generosity.
 
what you have to remember here, is that all the foals and youngstock that go to the futurity are only being graded on there "POTENTIAL", so even though they may get good grades, there are no guarantees. if you are looking to buy a foal with the potential to event. then i suggest you go for the breeding and competition results that are proven. but even then you have no guarantees. i have seen horses with no breeding pedigree make it big in competition, and also seen horses with all the blue blood in the world, just not make it. so, what im saying here... is that buying a foal is a gamble, which can be a lovely and very rewarding experience, but just remember, we can only make the odds the best possible by the choice of foal you buy..... but that does not mean you will definately end up with a super eventer...... its a bit of a lottery....
 
TBH I'd look for a foal with a strong dam line or who's dam had competed at a reasonable level, the mare has a lot of influence. A lot of these ' event stallions' have neither done it themselve's or their dams haven't either.
 
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I'd heard the same about the opposition bloodlines and yet was bowled over by opposition buzz in action, albeit at a rate of knots! They are generally such beautiful horses and I agree that FSH have some fantastic mares to put the Opposition blood to but, the word on the street does unnerve me a bit, although they are admittedly fine looking horses, proven so by their success at the BEF.


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There are some exceptionally ugly Opposition horses, one of mine included!!
Certain people just dont get on with Opposition horses, they can have a certain character and work really well for people they like but won't try a bit for those they don't. There's a pretty famous eventer who had one for a season and apparently said she'll never touch another!!
 
Thanks Showdiva, I totally agree with you and realise that there is absolutely no guarantee. Funnily I was thinking that the answer might be to buy 2 foals - one well bred one with plenty of 'potential' and another one that I just like the look of, irrelevant of it's breeding, to keep the first one company. I was just thinking that if I did go down that route, sods law would be that the cheap companion foal would turn out to be the successful one!

The Mule, I can't believe your disloyalty - I'm sure yours can't be exceptionally ugly, although the British love of the underdog makes me immediately like him/her for being classified as such!
 
Interestingly, historically Event sires never evented themselves or had dams that evented as many came from the fields of racing, often as relatively speaking 'failed' racehorses.

Some non-eventing Event sires would include -
Master Spiritus, Ben Faerie, Primitive Rising, Ben Auk, Criminal Law, Master Imp, King of Diamonds, Cruising, Cavalier Royale... some didn't compete much at all, even as racehorses, and others competed in other fields such as SJ.

Competing stallions at the top levels in Eventing is a relatively new thing - primarily started by Sam Barr - and has reflected the move from the use of TB sires to a more purpose bred sire who was often a part-bred. Given the value of some of these animals, it's not surprising that many owners choose not to put their stallions on the line eventing, given it is one of the more dangerous equestrian sports (from a catastophic injury perspective).

I think the key is to look for performance in a family, not necessarily just eventing, and certainly dam lines are absolutely crucial when it comes to increasing the chances of having top performing animals.
 
Thanks for posting that Julia, I'd somehow missed Memo's post so hadn't seen that, but she makes a very valid point.

Certainly the non-eventing Event sires you've mentioned are eventing royalty so it def proves your point. As you say, it's hardly surprising they don't risk eventing such valuable horses.

As you posted, i was busy looking at your website and see you've got some interesting combinations planned for next year. In particular your Allercombe Loveday in foal to Hand in Glove, Cornish Faer's ET foal to grafenstolz and Juswith Genoa's being in foal to Grafenstolz have caught my eye. Are these ones that you plan to retain or will you not know until they're born?

Thx again,
 
Thanks Julia, I thought those combinations were probably too good to be true! I truly don't know more than I'm admitting to, I just know what I like in a horse. Both of those stallions had just caught my eye since I'd decided to go down the buying a foal route.

I will def get in touch when I can get up to Lincs to come and see you. For some reason I'm a bit daunted by going stud visiting as I've never done it before....
 
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I will def get in touch when I can get up to Lincs to come and see you. For some reason I'm a bit daunted by going stud visiting as I've never done it before....

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We don't bite
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We're very laid back at our place as the world revolves around the horses, so we can offer tea, coffee and the occasional biscuit, but we're right out of red carpets.

It would be great to meet you and talk through what you're looking for. If you want to have a chat in the mean time you can always give me a buzz on 07775 633004 - I'm very approachable
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honest!
 
Brendon Hill Stud produce some very useful stock. My trainer buys all hers from them as 2yos including her last 4 star horse and they have all been pretty good. All of the stallions there have proven stock on the ground doing the business at 3* and 4*.

It depends what you want to do as the Langarths are all very good amateur horses but 2* seems to be the max as though Triple is a TB the mares being used are sometimes not of the best quality with a fair bit of Welsh in their.

What about speaking to Baydale on here as she has bought her horses directly from the stud and the Baydale prefix does not seem to be doing too badly with HOYs winner and Ross being at Intermediate.
 
Humph, have a friend with a mare in foal to PP. We went to Louella a couple of years ago, saw all the stallion, Lucy was there on her own and trawled them all out for us. But as yet haven't used one and we went really to see Lord Davis S, but he unfortunatly died the next year. Don't know much about the boys progeny at Louella, so not much help. But defo worth a visit.
 
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