Buying a NOT KC reg'd pure breed.

[MurphysMinder]

Even if they are KC registered and from an assured breeder you need to do your homework. It is absolutely no guarantee.

I inspect for councils under the animal licensing regulations including dog breeding.

Not many people are aware that the coefficient of inbreeding % is only an optional higher standard and nowhere in the minimum standards (up to three star) is there any requirement for a COI % below a certain figure.

For example, I have recently inspected a three star breeder who is a kennel club assured breeder and her COI % for the last 10 litters or so is over 30%. The breed average is approx 11%. I find it shocking and I’m horrified I can approve a three star licence on that basis.

Even the kennel club seem to frown on it but will register her as an assured breeder!







How on earth would the general public be clued up on this when they expect an assured breeder to be the gold standard?

This is why a lot of responsible breeders have left, or refuse to join the Assured Breeders scheme. It was a great idea but hasn't quite worked out, in German Shepherds they require hip scoring, great, but they don't set a maximum score so you could theoretically have ABS breeding from a dog with a horrific score, and sadly there have been asssured breeders who have bred from dogs with scores far higher than the breed recommendation which the KC happily register.

Overall though, as others have said, non KC reg would always make me suspicious, registering a pup is probably one of the cheapest parts of breeding a litter, so I just don't see why you wouldn't if litter is eligible, and this whole not registering pet quality is just nonsense in my opinion.

 

[brighteyes]

The GSD breed fraternity has been asking for low HD scoring on the parents to be a prerequisite for registration of puppies since, oh, ya know, the 1970s. And latterly low ED scores.

Yet nothing on the ski-slope backs?

 

[brighteyes]

I have an unreg whippet.

Parents were both working dogs. I was invited to watch dad work and there was plenty of footage of mum too.

I think in future I will buy a KC reg pup though with all relevant tests etc and pay the premium.

And you are having an issue?

 

[brighteyes]

How can they tell they are pet quality at birth?

Undershot?

 

[MurphysMinder]

Yet nothing on the ski-slope backs?

No, because whilst unattractive , it does not affect the dogs health and in fact in a lot of cases when a dog is standing naturally rather than pushed into shape it is hardly apparent.

Unless a jaw was so horribly undershot at birth the pup was likely to be unable to eat then I would just wait and see, I have seen plenty of under and overshot jaws correct as a pup has grown.
The same with the chihuahua pictured above, who yes does have incorrect ears, but that wouldnt be a reason to consider pet quality at registration which would probably be done at 4- 6 weeks. Ideally they should be up by 6 weeks but it can be a lot later.

 

[CorvusCorax]

Yet nothing on the ski-slope backs?

The 'ski slope' backs were only really in American show lines in the 70s.
If you mean 'banana backs', that started in the mid to late 80s in when the breed began to split into working/show lines, promoted by a small cabal of influential breeders and judges in Germany and has nothing to do with hip or elbow health.
I've seen dogs with humps in their back receive excellent scores and be able to fly over hurdles, and straight-backed working line dogs get bad scores and be crippled at a young age, it's nothing to do with 'how they look' in a lot of cases.
It is a numerically large and fairly genetically diverse breed, enough so that if someone doesn't want to buy a dog which will end up having a backline which is higher than the withers in natural stance, they don't have to, particularly if they do their research.

 

[Hepsibah]

.....

The same with the chihuahua pictured above, who yes does have incorrect ears, but that wouldnt be a reason to consider pet quality at registration which would probably be done at 4- 6 weeks. Ideally they should be up by 6 weeks but it can be a lot later.

The breeder of my dog was all about breeders who didn't care about the breed being able to produce litters with no thought of how it affected the gene pool. Not registering the puppies was about discouraging that. She had a careful breeding programme which included things like being able to birth their own pups which had nothing to do with the kennel club and anything outside that was sold with no registration.

I went to view my pup with both her parent's present and was happy with her. Papers didn't interest me. She's aged ten now and I've had no cause to regret that decision.

 

[MurphysMinder]

The breeder of my dog was all about breeders who didn't care about the breed being able to produce litters with no thought of how it affected the gene pool. Not registering the puppies was about discouraging that. She had a careful breeding programme which included things like being able to birth their own pups which had nothing to do with the kennel club and anything outside that was sold with no registration.

I went to view my pup with both her parent's present and was happy with her. Papers didn't interest me. She's aged ten now and I've had no cause to regret that decision.

But all she had to do was endorse the KC registration not for breeding which would have the same effect ie it wouldn't stop the new owner breeding but pups couldn't be KC reg.

My mum bred chis for several years and all whelped naturally, they are great little dogs if allowed to be dogs and not treated as handbags. Ours lived with GSDs and were perfectly capable of keeping up with them on exercise.

 

[spacefaer]

We've had working cockers for years and have just had our latest litter. We're not big breeders - the last one was 5 years ago!
All puppies will be KC reg - we're proud of our bloodlines and after 9 generations, want the carefully selected bloodlines recorded.
I wouldn't want a non KC reg dog as it would imply a lack of interest in pedigree and by implication, in the pups themselves.

 

[CorvusCorax]

Re GSD backlines for anyone interested, this was part of a much longer and very informative Facebook post showing a working line dog in America with health tests, titles and a show grade, posed in various different stacks.

 

[Clodagh]

It might be perfectly healthy but I really hate that first shape.
Do they really not suffer from cruciate trouble standing like that? Do they have to hold it for a long time in the show ring?

 

[CorvusCorax]

No and no. It was only done with that dog, for the purposes of the picture(s).
It's just a 'shape', among many other shapes a dog can/does make, it's a moment in time.