Calculating weight for horsebox - weight of 2 horses etc

Bernster

Bernster

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I got my lorry weight checked and it has a payload of 1440kgs. I know that's a decent amount for a 3.9t but I'm still not sure if it's enough to take 2x decent sized horses plus kit.

I know the most accurate way to work out the total payload is to load everything up and head to a weigh station. However, have been trying to guess-timate and found this website which has some rough weights on it which I thought I'd share. Also has some useful info about payloads and stuff. Do you think these weights sounds about right?

If I work out 2 average riders, a 630kg and a 650kg horse, plus tack etc. for 2, then using these numbers this gets towards/over 1600kgs (depending on whether the tack nos below are for 1 or 2 horses, not sure).

http://www.karibahorseboxes.co.uk/payload/#.VmVlckZ4lDo

Driver 70kg
16hh Horse 600kg
Passengers x2 130kg
Hay & Feed 50kg
Personal stuff 15kg
Tack, rugs, saddles, etc 75kg
Water 1 kg / litre
70 Litres of Fuel 70Kg**
 
it's probably safest to overestimate in this kind of situation.

I went mad doing sums so I just popped into public weighbridge on my return journey from a show. Had a horse plus all the usual kit on board, so it was no extra bother ;) They are easy to find online, I just googled 'public weighbridge [my county]' to find it. Only cost £6 for peace of mind :)
 
Tiddlypom said:
That's sobering, isn't it. Your two horses plus a 70 kg driver and 70 litres of fuel come to 1420kg, never mind any tack, equipment or a passenger.

Are your horses' weights accurate (weigh bridged)?
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I know! I assume they are a slight over estimate but that's not a bad thing in the circs. But yes it comes to 1600kgs for the 2 which is WAY over. Weight tape measurements but they are both fairly chunky 16.1 and 16.2.

milliepops said:
it's probably safest to overestimate in this kind of situation.

I went mad doing sums so I just popped into public weighbridge on my return journey from a show. Had a horse plus all the usual kit on board, so it was no extra bother ;) They are easy to find online, I just googled 'public weighbridge [my county]' to find it. Only cost £6 for peace of mind :)
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Out of interest, 1hat was your weight with the 1 horse? I'm doing some solo outings for the short term as the 2 horses in question haven't travelled well together anyway. I fear we may only have room for a skinny companion from now on though !
 
I would have thought that you would need more than one litre of water! Two 600 kg would take you to 1,611 if I've added it up correctly, way over your limit. When we took our 7.5 tonne for plating I left everything in except horses, sister and I and tack. So our water container was full, we had a full tank of fuel and if I remember properly we even had a couple of hay nets up!
I took a friends two big hunters and mini shetland on a 200 mile trip and we were nearly up to the payload and I could tell on all roads other than the motorway! We had no extras in at all, no tack. We don't carry big gas tanks, although the living has a big cooker, we use a small camping stove with lttle gas cannisters, partly to keep the weight down. We try and make things multi use if we can :)
 
I only have an old 3.5t box, built for strength rather than low weight but with no bells & whistles in it other than a substantial anti-climb barrier.

With one horse, all kit, hay, water, full tank of fuel etc, I had 300kg left to play with.

No way I could carry 2 horses at once. My horses are 500kg (weighed at vets). I suspect I could scrape it without the climb barrier, empty fuel tank and no kit at all.... but i wouldn't want to risk it tbh.
 
It certainly is eye opening. Might get away with limited kit and two smaller horses but, as you say, anything more than that and I'm overweight. Given that I've got 1440kgs which is pretty generous for this size, that must mean a lot of these boxes don't carry 2 at all, even as an updated 3.9t.
 
Scary isn't it?

A friend hired a 3.5t from a local hire place which had a payload of 1100kg. When I suggested that the 2 x 16.2 she intended to carry would be too much she called the hire place. They said something like the box would fit 2 horses up to 17hh and off she went. They phrased it in such a way that they didn't actually mention weight but size. It was misleading while not actually lying and she took from it that she would be OK with 2 big horses in there.
 
dead right. If I had the license for it I'd consider uprating but only to be happy enough to pop some cupboards and something that could be loosely described as a bed, for when we stable away at shows ;)

I think you can get better payload if your box is built out of really lightweight materials, really light partition etc - but for me I like the peace of mind of knowing mine is solid, hence using up quite a bit to put the climb barrier in.

My horses do different classes at shows and neither would enjoy standing around all day waiting for each other anyway, so I never really need to take 2 at once in any case.
 
criso said:
Scary isn't it?

A friend hired a 3.5t from a local hire place which had a payload of 1100kg. When I suggested that the 2 x 16.2 she intended to carry would be too much she called the hire place. They said something like the box would fit 2 horses up to 17hh and off she went. They phrased it in such a way that they didn't actually mention weight but size. It was misleading while not actually lying and she took from it that she would be OK with 2 big horses in there.
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Yep. I've seen a few advertised as "can carry up to 2..." etc., but the fact that they FIT in the lorry doesn't mean it's got the payload for them. Kind of answers my other issue about how to get the 2 horses to travel well together though...!
 
The strange thing is that you tell people that it is not possible to have any 2 horse (not pony) box under the 3.5 ton limit and they do not take any notice. I have two contacts who have now found that their 3.5 ton boxes are useless to them and also much reduced in value as they are pretty useless to anyone else who wants to carry two horses
 
I'd say depending on how your horses are built you may be underestimating thier weights.
My lad is a 15.2hh small hunter type and at the vet weighs 600kg!
 
conniegirl said:
I'd say depending on how your horses are built you may be underestimating thier weights.
My lad is a 15.2hh small hunter type and at the vet weighs 600kg!
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I was just thinking the opposite!! My big horse (17hh carthorse/tb cross), weighs 630kg. Just goes to show how important it is do an accurate weigh-in - you always get a sneaky on who weighs far more/less than you'd think to look at them!
 
At least with a 3.9t box you can just about legally carry two horses, as long as you have a tame second person in another vehicle to carry all the kit, whereas it'd be a non starter with a 3.5t.

But I agree that I'd get the horses weighed accurately, then you'll know if it's possible or not. An extra 50kg here and there could muck up your plans with those two.

I've been idly day dreaming about getting a 3.9t box, this thread has given me much to think about. A payload of 1440 kg sounds pretty decent on paper..
 
Bernster said:
Yep. I've seen a few advertised as "can carry up to 2..." etc., but the fact that they FIT in the lorry doesn't mean it's got the payload for them. Kind of answers my other issue about how to get the 2 horses to travel well together though...!
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I had an argument with a lady on fb selling a 7.5t saying it's takes three 16.2s and had full living. When I asked her the unladen weight she told.me what she carries in it, when I told her that no way would it be legal and what it's the unladen weight again she got really shirty. A.few friends started having a.go too until a load of other people kept asking the same as me.

My 7.5t had a unladen weight of 5.2t that's with a full tank, Driver and all the crap from.the breach holidays (tents, camping stove, gazebo etc) I have had the.body re done and the living is just a bench seat with the tack locker going into it and it's is stalled for four but I can't rake four until I body.swap to a hgv chassis when I've passed my class two.
 
Also one of mine, 16:3 tank, weighs 800kgs now and when he is at his 'super fit' weight before a few months off for lameness he was 760kgs. And that's on a weigh.Bridge from a.feed company
 
Food for thought - I wonder how many 7.5 ton boxes are overweight when you take into acount:-

Rubber matting in the horse compartment 17mm rubber mats (6' x 4') 45Kg x 4 = 180Kg
Kitchen units 1 x full height (carcass 48Kg + Door 5 Kg = 53Kg) & 2 x low (carcass 19Kg + Door 3Kg = 22Kg) = 53Kg + (2 x 22Kg) + 1m of 30mm worktop (17Kg) = 114Kg
Water 50L tank = 50Kg
Gas for cooker = 20Kg
Mattress for Luton = 30Kg

Thats in the region of 420Kg already.....

Two adults & a child 80Kg x 2 + 60Kg = 220Kg

A labrador sized dog = 20Kg

Thats not taking into account food (human & horse), tack, saddles, rugs, spares, clothes, boots.........
 
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I think I'd get an accurate weight on the two horses. Depending on how they weigh up, you may be able to skim in under the limit if you only want to take a companion for a hack (i.e. one additional person (~70kg), tack (x2, ~15kg), small hay nets (~5kg), nothing else). I have a 3.5t box and can either take my own horse camping with all the kit I need, or take him and his field mate (14.1 and 15.1h) for a hack with bare bones kit.
Also, are you sure fuel isn't already included in your payload? Pretty hard to get to the weigh bridge on a completely empty tank!
 
We had a weighbridge at our riding club camp. Beforehand, we got everybody to guesstimate their horses' weights and there was a prize for the closest. The closest (me!) was within 15kgs, very few others were even close and they nearly all underestimated. My friend's 15.3 Warmblood and my 16.3 ID x something lighter were only 10kgs apart.

I've always worked on the premise that for each horse, you need roughly 1T of payload to ensure, you're within the weight limit by the time you add all equipment and a rider. Seeing as mine are both the best part of 700kgs, I think I'd need even more to be on the safe side.
 
Looking at your calculations, you have a driver plus two passengers - is this correct, or have you counted an extra person too many? If so you can put this weight into some more water.

I have done the same calculation for my box and ended up with about the same amount. My only conclusion was that perhaps it might be possible if your passenger drove a car separately with the tack and equipment in, and you only take the horses (plus water for emergencies). Yes it's nicer to have the company, but it does enable you to have a small box which is generally cheaper to maintain than a larger one, and still travel two.
 
I'm a bit dubious about the portable weigh bridges. I took advantage of one at a camp too. My horse had her weighed very recently at the vet college. I was trying to get weight on him at the time and hadn't had much success I thought so I was very surprised when he seemed to have put on 30kg. A couple of weeks later at the vet college again he weighed less than at camp even though he'd finally started gaining.

On the plus side it added 30kg so for the purposes of this at least gives you a safety margin, my weightape is consistently 20kg under.
 
I have a 3.5t and most of the time it's just me and my 15.1 Connie cross. However, sometimes I take my friend's 14.1 lightweight welsh D. On the one occasion I took her 15.2 polish Arab she drove her car containing everything else - tack, clothes, boots, hats, jackets water etc. etc. etc. So it was just me, the horses and their haynets. We'd worked it out that we just scraped the limit. The two horses had been weighed on a weighbridge only weeks before so we knew accurately their weights. I also only had the minimum amount of fuel as the place we were going was less that 10 miles away.

Another friend who also had a 3.5t was told by a supposedly competent person that she'd be fine carrying her chunky 15.2 cob and her husband's middle weight ID 16.2 hunter plus themselves and all the gear. It was only when another friend pointed out the perils of being overweight that they have now upgraded to a 4t which I understand is potentially still pretty borderline.
 
Thanks everyone, been an interesting discussion. I used to take my 15.2 and my friend's 16h horse with limited kit etc and reckoned I was just about ok. But I now have a bigger horse and an even larger occasional plus 1 horse, which has made me re-think. Friend also had her 3.5t weight checked and realised how little extra payload she had, which led to me to double check the weight.

I'm not 100% sure if some of the estimates in that original link are for single or double tack etc, but I only counted 2 passengers in total, and discounted some fuel weight from when it got weighed with 1/3 tank, but I'm so far off I can't see me easily getting it into 1440kgs unless I get more accurate, and far lower, weights for the 2 beasties.
 
Good grief. A few years ago I was assured that I would be fine driving my friends 7.5 man lorry. Off I went, with 4 hunters in the back and 3 persons plus me in the front. I wondered at the time why the dammed thing wandered all over the road.
 
Hunt/ polo boxes usually have a bigger payload as no living, just a tack section. I've been over a weighbridge in a 7.5 ton polo box with 4 ponies and all their heavy tack and was under. Whether the axel weights were correct/ legal I don't know.
 
Personally I do not see much point in getting a 4 or 5 ton lorry either - once you are over the 3.5 ton level you need a goods vehicle driving license (unless you are as old as I am!!) so you might just as well go take the test and buy a 7.5 ton and be safe. Likewise if you want to travel 3+ horses take the full HGV and buy a 12, 14 or even 17 ton lorry. Quite rightly the authorities are becoming very hot on checking horseboxes as it is well known that they are often overweight. The dangers of overloaded goods vehicles are great and the fines for infringements are rightly high.
 
I had to get a 7.5 horsebox for payload reasons as we have got 2.5 tonne payload as no fitted living which is essential as my hubby's ID 17.1 has been know to weigh in regularly over 800kg and my 16.1 IDx over 700kg. These weights are by vet weigh bridge as well a feed company weighbridge. I know the feed company one, they check with a known weight to calibrate it after setting up
 
When I was looking for a 7.5 ton lorry I looked at one with all bells & whistles. It was lovely but then I asked what the payload was & was told 800kgs. I thanked her & said 'you've got a nice motor home but certainly not a horse box',

I eventually bought a Tristar 7.5 ton. It was stalled for 4, presumably ponies, but I've only carried my 2 horses in it. It has day living although it will sleep 3 but not insulated so only used in summer. It has a ulw of 5.6 tons so a payload of 1.9 tons, I look it to a weighbridge myself. I know with tack & 2 horses on board I am within weight.

I understand why someone wants a 3.5 ton as they don't need to take another test but they must understand the limitations that places on what they carry. As for 3.9 tons? why bother with them. They struggle to carry 2 horses & kit, you need another test to drive them, I can't see a plus side to them really. Either have a 3.5 ton for one horse or a significantly heavier box to accommodate the number of horses you want to carry.

Best tip is do not accept what anyone tells you about the ulw of a lorry until you've seen a weight certificate or you've weighed it yourself. :)
 
Toby_Zaphod said:
I understand why someone wants a 3.5 ton as they don't need to take another test but they must understand the limitations that places on what they carry. As for 3.9 tons? why bother with them. They struggle to carry 2 horses & kit, you need another test to drive them, I can't see a plus side to them really. Either have a 3.5 ton for one horse or a significantly heavier box to accommodate the number of horses you want to carry.

Best tip is do not accept what anyone tells you about the ulw of a lorry until you've seen a weight certificate or you've weighed it yourself. :)
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But in the odd case it can make sense - for us oldies, I wanted a smaller truck with a decent payload for my then smaller/lighter horse, so I could take 2 horses. And it's a v easy thing to get it uprated to 3.9t. For resale, it can be downgraded if someone wants it as a 3.5t. I realise that as I get older, and more and more people need to take a test, that it gets less useful. And I feel like an old lady :-(

If I do swap lorries I might go for a 4t+ which makes even less sense, to someone other than me :-)
 
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