Calling it a day. Thoughts

[poiuytrewq]

I know “you just know” but is there a situation you think is a definite?
I’ve posted about this horse before and will be calling my vet again tomorrow but in the meantime OH won’t hear mention of this kind of thing so am bouncing ideas off you all!
He’s 21. He’s gone downhill fairly suddenly. He’s arthritic we think all round, he’s certainly been in degrees of stiffness and at times (limited) lame in both hinds, one worse and one fore.
We decided a few months ago to put him on a bute a day and if he did well review after Christmas.
He did improve, I even started leading him out a bit off another horse, just little walks but he was bouncy and sound. I once missed a bute dose and he was visibly uncomfortable the following day. Have been very careful not to miss one since. This last few days he’s taken a backward turn again. Been a bit grumpy, ears back at the other horses, asking to come in all the time. And sore. I’ve upped the bute to twice a day, just to try and help him out til speaking to the vet.
The hunt were out yesterday and this would normally cause much hysteria but he stood, ears pricked, excited but didn’t even trot round. That’s not him.
I’ve always said if one sachet of bute isn’t working it’s time.
Id happily investigate and inject but realistically it is 3 legs (at least probably 4) probably more than one joint in each. How much can one horse be jabbed up?
He’s on joint supplements, devils claw, extra MSM a feed balancer, bute.
If this is the end I’ll have lost 3 in a year I want to give him every chance.
Miracle cures below please!

 

[eggs]

Sorry to hear you are going through this. I don’t have an issue with keeping a retired horse on a low dose of Bute provided they have a good quality of life. I had one of my retirees pts when I started to worry that he may go down and not be able to get back up due to arthritis in his knee. He was not in immediate danger of this happening but in consultation with my vet we decided that it was best to do it whilst he was still feeling good within himself.

I do think that when you start trying to second guess yourself whether it is time that it usually is.

 

[View]

Hugs

You know him best, and if you feel he isn’t enjoying life any more, it’s time to make the call.

I always say let them go peacefully and with dignity.

 

[Toby_Zaphod]

Hi, I realise that you're looking for a miracle cure but can't give you one. If lameness was in one leg then you could consider medicating the various joints. You say that he has problems in 3 or 4 joints so that puts medication out the door. I believe that giving constant bute, either one or two a day doesn't really solve anything. True your horse would get pain relief but bute in that quantity & over a long period causes it's own problems. The bute only disguises the issue it doesn't cure it. I believe that you are nearing a point where a serious decision will need to be made. Talk with your vet & see what the options are and then make your decision. Sorry but these decisions have to be made by all of us sometime. I have a 22 year old, he's been in good shape all of his life, He's still ridden & loves his work but I know that he'll let me know when a decision will need to be made. Good Luck

 

[milliepops]

I do think that when you start trying to second guess yourself whether it is time that it usually is.

this. Sorry you've had such a rubbish year. it sounds like you're already doing everything you can to make him comfortable

 

[Goldenstar]

I am in a similar situation with Fatty just not as extreme .
I did do some injections a three weeks ago but I totally agree that it’s a waste of money because you are going to end up in the same place at some point.
One thing that has helped Fatty we have him in a 450 gram rug I bought this rug cheaply years ago and have always judged it too hot we tried it on him and he’s is happier so it might be worth keeping what you might think to be too hot .
Fatty is out at night but gets three to four hours and day stabled with a deep bed he always lies down and sleeps when he is in .
I would say once you get to this stage it’s never to early to let them go you run a bigger risk of waiting too long .
Its not easy .

 

[IrishMilo]

Sounds like it’s time, no doubt.

 

[SEL]

I'm finding these kind of discussions tough with my OH too. Doesn't help that the horsey people in our direct circle are all "go until you absolutely can't" people.

If you want to try anything alongside the bute (& my vet tells me they've got horses on their books who have been on 2 x day for years without issue) then green mussel extract has proved really helpful for my arthritic one. Plus really making sure his thrush his under control - gets it badly in one foot then holds himself awkwardly

But mine is still happy in himself and being a PITA. When that naughty spark dulls will be an awful day.

 

[oldie48]

TBH I think it's all about how much the horse is enjoying life. If they can get up and down easily, have a buck and fart in the field, behave like a normal horse, then I'm happy to give them bute on a daily basis but once that spark has gone, I think it's time to call it a day. So sorry it's horrible, I know but the worst of the weather is to come and I think the older arthritics find the cold wet weather a real trial. Sending a hug!

 

[poiuytrewq]

Thanks everyone! He’s a total pain in the arse, he’s just come tearing in like a 2 yr old ?‍
I guess it’s the higher dose of bute kicking in.
He can get up ok, this is another of my definite time things and something I keep a close eye on.
I am going to up his rugs, he’s a hairy cob x but does feel the cold so it maybe that’s not helping. Will see what his vet thinks tomorrow.

 

[PinkvSantaboots]

I would just keep an eye on him I don't know where you are in the country but it's been incredibly damp and just horrible weather here, I have a 15 year old with hock arthritis and his looked a bit stiffer in general, I find any prolonged extreme weather has a huge impact on him so I am sure it effects a lot of horses in the same way.

 

[webble]

If hes miserable then its time. Someone on our yard was in a similar situation and inflacam gave her a new lease of life, might be worth a discussion with your vets if you're looking for suggestions. If you're looking for a voice of reason to pts then you have that too. Hugs it's a difficult decision

 

[SEL]

Thanks everyone! He’s a total pain in the arse, he’s just come tearing in like a 2 yr old ?‍
I guess it’s the higher dose of bute kicking in.
He can get up ok, this is another of my definite time things and something I keep a close eye on.
I am going to up his rugs, he’s a hairy cob x but does feel the cold so it maybe that’s not helping. Will see what his vet thinks tomorrow.

I have an arthritic shoulder and have been on the nurofen this week - I think it must be the damp weather. Its not cold here but it is downright miserable!

 

[doodle]

If it helps I had the discussion with vet as to what level of Danilon was acceptable and when to call it a day. He said 2 a day (16hh horse) to keep comfortable in the field he was happy with. If 2 wasn’t enough then we call it. It helped me a lot knowing where that line was that we wouldn’t cross.

It didn’t come to it in the end and when tendon went again the increase in Danilon caused him to colic. He had been on 1 a day for 3 years and I guess it did cause issue. But I would do it again if Robin needs it.

 

[poiuytrewq]

So difficult when it’s not consistent.
It has been pretty yuck here yes and he was never a lover of bad weather at the best of times (except when hunting then he didn’t notice!)
I did also think we swapped fields at the beginning of the week. The new one is much muddier. I wonder if that’s part of him getting worse again.

 

[SusieT]

Just wondering why one sachet of bute? For a big horse 1 sachet is a very low dose- a chat and exam with the vet - is he still happy moving around the field?

 

[poiuytrewq]

Just wondering why one sachet of bute? For a big horse 1 sachet is a very low dose- a chat and exam with the vet - is he still happy moving around the field?

He’s 15hh with shoes!
He was until this weekend yes, but then as above came in ok tonight. Been on 2 since Friday.
The one sachet was always just my thing, if a horse with a degenerative condition needed more than one a day to be happy for me that was time.
Im hoping after this evening he may pick up again a bit.

 

[Pearlsacarolsinger]

I did find a miracle cure for mine. She was due to be pts because of arthritis and as a last ditch attempt I tried magnetic leg wraps (Bioflow). She appeared sound and comfortable after wearing them for the first 24 hours. She had another 3 months enjoying life and then had some kind of seizure/stroke overnight and had to be pts.

 

[millikins]

It's very difficult isn't it? I too have had a bum year and lost 3 lovely mares in 15 months.. Our old pony, daughter's first was very similar to your situation, 23, lame in at least 3 legs, front coffin joints and hocks, unsuitable for steroids as toxic laminitis prior to our purchase. She was on 1 bute a day for a long time and she was field sound and went for short hacks. She was always boss but was becoming actively aggressive to the others at times. She really struggled with hard ground rather than mud and we made the decision early last summer (2019). Her magic solution which gave her at least one more comfortable year was farrier suggesting pads in her front shoes, unshod behind, but that probably isn't relevant to your boy.

 

[Lady Jane]

If he were mine, and it took 2 bute/day and that worked really well I would continue - providing you have the facilities to give him a good quality of life and he is bright and happy. There could be side effects but then you definitely know you must call time. I lost my old boy at at 29yrs in October. He had been on Danillon for probably 8 years, had been retired for 9 years and the Danillon never caused a problem but they are all different. Its so tough trying to decide what is right for them, best wishes from me x

 

[be positive]

Having read on here about boswellia I put 2 of mine on buteless, which is boswellia based not devils claw, both showed improvement within days, one is no longer with me, as I called it a day before I moved, the other is still on it and looking far more comfy than he did when he first arrived 5 years ago, he is now 25 and retired but I think he could easily do something if I had a rider for him, it may be worth a try rather than upping the bute.