Can a cob ever make it to top level dressage (ie grand prix)?

Arggh, I should be working, but cob lovers of the world unite. As with warmbloods that make it to the top, there are always cobs that are freaks of nature. I know there is no way that my lad would make it to the top in dressage, even though his conformation is spot on. He can collect really well and sit on his hocks, but cant extend very well, so does not have all that extravagant flashiness that judges seem to like. However, as much as there are crap cobs, there are crap warmbloods doing dressage, and just because they are warmbloods, they get marked higher. On top of this, a lot of pure dressage judges that I have had the experience to meet all collective agree that they hate cobs! Yes, I have had direct experience of this as well, as used to do a lot of dressage with my cob, who is very striking looking and smart and has rhythmic and correct paces as well. My instructor used to compete him and did very well indeed, but there was always some dam stuffy warmblood getting marked higher. I dont want to start a debate over this, but I think that the right cob with the right rider would stand a chance of getting to a pretty high level.

There endeth my rant.

(PS, I also do own a warmblood thing, so can see both sides of the story, but my heart lies firmly on the cob side of things).
 
There is a coloured tradional cob around who is elementry + ... hope someone will remember its name.

I think there are exceptions to the rules in every breed and in every horse's conformation. I have the pleasure of being around a horse who has evented to a fantastic level with a very famous rider, yet if you were looking for a horse to do what he has, you'd take one look at him conformationally you'd have walked away.
 
TBH, conformation allowing, I don't see why any willing talented horse shouldn't do well - regardless of type/breed.

Yes, I agree that a cobs extensions and movements are unlikely to be as flashy as a big moving WB but, if they are correct I don't see what the difference it tbh. A cob can still extend but due to differences in action it won't look the same, but within its physical capabilities, there will still be a difference between the collected, working, medium, and extended presumably?

I am not a dressage person, nor do I own a cob or a WB, but I honestly thought dressage was meant to be about correctness and obedience, and wasn't a showing class?
 
Mr President is at Grand Prix, not PSG...

I competed my cob x tb dressage and shes now bred me one stunning dressage foal and has another on the way. She beat warmbloods on numerous occasions and has won at the Nationals with me aswell. I didnt buy her until she was 8 years old and i believe that if i had had her earlier in life she wouldve easily got to PSG if not higher. Now i give lessons on her as a school mistress at elementary/medium level and will compete her again affliated after she has foaled next year (shes 17 at the moment).
 
Naturally said:
There is a coloured tradional cob around who is elementry + ... hope someone will remember its name.

I think there are exceptions to the rules in every breed and in every horse's conformation. I have the pleasure of being around a horse who has evented to a fantastic level with a very famous rider, yet if you were looking for a horse to do what he has, you'd take one look at him conformationally you'd have walked away.
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Wesley!

http://www.yourhorse.co.uk/Your-Hor.../General-news/April-08/apr1108tessaandwesley/

I love him!:D
 
I believe the phrase you may be looking for is "expression", which a good cob will not have half as much as a good warmblood.

My tb Henry, had he ever been trained properly, would have been more than capable of getting to a reasonably high level of dressage, as he had a very nice way of going - however, compare the "expression" in his paces to that of one of those top end warmbloods you see in these demos on the TV, he would have been outclassed by a long way.
 
Stencilface said:
TBH, conformation allowing, I don't see why any willing talented horse shouldn't do well - regardless of type/breed.

Yes, I agree that a cobs extensions and movements are unlikely to be as flashy as a big moving WB but, if they are correct I don't see what the difference it tbh. A cob can still extend but due to differences in action it won't look the same, but within its physical capabilities, there will still be a difference between the collected, working, medium, and extended presumably?

I am not a dressage person, nor do I own a cob or a WB, but I honestly thought dressage was meant to be about correctness and obedience, and wasn't a showing class?
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Completely aggree with this!!

I have both a flashy well-bred dressage wb and a stocky coloured irish mare and have to work twice as hard to get the marks from the coloured mare :(
 
mil1212 said:
I have a friend who has a Section D at prix st georges level. They have had to work hard to get there, and warmbloods would find it all a lot easier. It's also probably quite intimidating in the warm up!
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That sounds wonferful, do you have any pictures of them competing/schooling? Would love to see.. I am sure your friend wouldn't mind.. lol

x
 
all of the people saying yes they can make it, can i ask why you think not even ONE cob has made it yet?

there are warmbloods, tbs, tbxid, tb x native, tb x shire etc so it can't be purely asthetical discrimination- if they are capable why is there not a single cob known at the top level?

i say this as someone who doesn't even like warmbloods and wouldn't own one!! :)
i don't understand all of the 'prejudice' everyone goes on about- i own a very unflashy boring bay tb but because she has been produced correctly she scores very good marks in dressage and regularly beats the flashier horses.
 
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But one will make it eventually! There (I think!) has only been one stroller, and many would say a 14.2 couldn't do that, but one did. Never say never!

Opinions might change, as they have before :)

Cobs may become all the rage in a dressage arena, stranger things have happened, bling on an eventer for example ;) :D
 
The main problem about getting a cob to the top level of dressage and why the don't often is because they are harder to teach and learn slower, FACT. I know a gut that trains trick horses, mainly tbs and andulusians (hope i spelt that right) to things like the spanish walk, bow and you can ride them with no tack and just put your hand on the side of the neck to what you want to turn and a simple 'whoa' stops the horse dead, was amazing to ride one of these, but the one i rode was a cob. One he had to trained to prove that cobs can be taught extraordinary things as well. Always the favourite at his demonstrations.
So my advice is if you want to go somewhere with dressage on your cob, you can, just remember it will take longer to teach your horse movements, so don't get impatient if it doesn't just click straight away.
Good luck
 
I disagree that they are slower to learn - you cannot tar all with the same brush.

I have just bought a HW cob. I love dressage, and have ridden and trained on GP horses. Do I think that my baby cob will ever be capable of a Grand Prix test? No. Do I think he will ever be capable of some Grand Prix movements? Yes.

If you look at his basic 'make-up' compared to a warmblood - his joints are huge, his legs are short, his neck is thick - to think of it in human terms, it would be like asking rugby player to ballet dance at the highest level! His brain has got nothing to do with it - I am sure I could train him to perform some of the higher movements, but the toll it would take on his joints would be tremendous - I would place money on it that he could piaff, pirouette and passage but he would end up damaging something as he just is not built for the tension and poise needed for higher movements, and trying to string it all together in a test would inevitably lead to him breaking down before he was anywhere near ready to compete.

In my opinion it is not the apitutde that hinders cobs, it is their physcial make-up.
 
nativeponies said:
The bog-standard, everyone seems to have one, badly bred "gypsy cob"..the hairy monsters that should be pulling a dray type of "Cob" wouldn't be capable of doing a decent Dressage test because they are not made to move forwards..instead are designed to pull carts..so are stuffy in front...and tend to be croup high.

True Cobs such as Welsh Cobs that have an exaggerated movement would be far more suited to Dressage.
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Pffft. Wash your mouth out. True gypsy cobs should be NOTHING like that!!!!

And as far as Welsh cobs being 'true' cobs. What a load of hogwash. They're natives as far as I'm concerned. Wouldn't put a welsh anywhere near or in sight of a gypsy cob.

:)
 
heidirusso said:
That sounds wonferful, do you have any pictures of them competing/schooling? Would love to see.. I am sure your friend wouldn't mind.. lol
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My wife has a 14.1hh welsh D now competing Adv.medium (BD) which will get to PSG.
She doesn't have much problem competing against flashy moving warmbloods. If she did I doubt the pony would now have over 280 BD points.
 
Binky01 said:
Pffft. Wash your mouth out. True gypsy cobs should be NOTHING like that!!!!

And as far as Welsh cobs being 'true' cobs. What a load of hogwash. They're natives as far as I'm concerned. Wouldn't put a welsh anywhere near or in sight of a gypsy cob.

:)
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note my use of "" when describing

and yes, Section D's are True Cobs....pinched from wiki..

" The breed of horse known today as the Section D Welsh cob exemplifies the classic build of the historic cob. It is said that good cob should have "the head of a lady and the backside of a cook."

Cob is a term used to describe a type of horse that is small, usually of a stout build, with strong bones, large joints, and steady disposition. The term refers to a body type of horse rather than a specific breed. Historically, in the United Kingdom and, to a lesser extent, the eastern United States, it was also a word used to describe a common horse used for everyday riding
 
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I also agree Stencilface :) for me dressage is about bringing out the best in any horse according to confirmation, temperament and ability. As you so rightly say, it should not be a showing class.
 
Binky01 said:
Pffft. Wash your mouth out. True gypsy cobs should be NOTHING like that!!!!

And as far as Welsh cobs being 'true' cobs. What a load of hogwash. They're natives as far as I'm concerned. Wouldn't put a welsh anywhere near or in sight of a gypsy cob.

:)
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Of course Welsh Cobs are 'true' cobs, wherever did you get that idea from?? :D
 
Does a shire x luso count as a cob? I know a lady that does classical dressage displays that's got a lovely one in her 20s that does amazing piaffe, passage, levade...had a lesson about a year ago on the mare - and she was fantastic.
 
NicoleS_007 said:
Sure theres that huge horse Mr President who looks pretty much like a cart horse doing prix st george?! I think??
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Excuse me, Mr President is a Gelderlander, a major contributor to the KWPN breed, with stunning paces they are very good for dressage. Most certainly they are NOT cart horses!


My Gelderlander, definately not a cart horse, actually quite a talented horse.
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Rant over
 
I think any horse can do the movements so conceivably would be capable of competing at any level, but whether they could do them well is another matter.

I don't think breed is the only deciding factor as to whether a horse can compete at a level, conformation, temperament, trainability all play a part. Not all warmbloods make it to top level dressage, just as not all throughbreds are fast enough to be any good at racing.

I've been to dressage competitions at prelim, novice and elementary level where cobs have done well as they have done a solid and calm test, whereas the warmbloods, although much more atheltic in their movements, spent half their time on 2 legs.

There is video of a cob doing medium level on youtube at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tFkFVt3Mc6Y
 
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eatonbraynat said:
As above really, just wondering if this is possible and if not grand prix, highest level you think could be reached?

I know it will always be based on all the factors, ie talent and rider, but just wondered?
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There is a horse doing top dressage called Giddy he is a shire x and is absolutely massive!!!!
 
medium and even PSG are a far cry from competing at GP level.

and saying every horse can do the moves, yes the individual ones but stringing them together is a different matter entirely.

I have a horse who can jump a single fence at 1.50cm- it doesn't make her a GP show jumper and she wouldn't be able to jump a course that big.

as zoeshiloh said, it is not the brain but the body that lets them down.

and shire x is not a cob and neither is a Gelderlander! :)
 
millitiger said:
medium and even PSG are a far cry from competing at GP level.

and saying every horse can do the moves, yes the individual ones but stringing them together is a different matter entirely.

I have a horse who can jump a single fence at 1.50cm- it doesn't make her a GP show jumper and she wouldn't be able to jump a course that big.

as zoeshiloh said, it is not the brain but the body that lets them down.

and shire x is not a cob and neither is a Gelderlander! :)
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Oh sorry didnt realise a Shire x wasnt a cob ;)
 
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