can a farrier trim better than a barefoot trimmer ?

jesstickle said:
The ones which are likely to win are going to be the ones that stay sound long enough to be fittened/trained, ergo we are selecting for horses which go well in shoes.
Click to expand...

Maybe the showjumpers and dressage horses but the racers go to stud long before they develop problems. The webpage for Frankie's dad makes a point of saying he retired sound in wind and limb...at 4. Frankie was still sound at 4, it took till nearly 6 for shoes to finally get to him.
 
criso said:
Maybe the showjumpers and dressage horses but the racers go to stud long before they develop problems. The webpage for Frankie's dad makes a point of saying he retired sound in wind and limb...at 4. Frankie was still sound at 4, it took till nearly 6 for shoes to finally get to him.
Click to expand...

But they start years younger too. But yes, that's a good point.

BTW I don't think we should select these horses, just that we probably are whilst looking for other traits
 
jesstickle said:
I would imagine that we are doing that. Most world cup show jumpers, gold cup winners and dressage horses are shod. The ones which are likely to win are going to be the ones that stay sound long enough to be fittened/trained, ergo we are selecting for horses which go well in shoes. Inadvertently I grant you but I am pretty sure that is actually what we're doing.

We didn't actually want TBs to have long legs, it is a by product of them being quick but I would say they are definitely more leggy than a native pony.

We are a funny old species. God only knows why we take so much enjoyment in winning races and jumping fences that we go to all this trouble.
Click to expand...


Most world cup show jumpers, gold cup winners and top class dressage horses are shod but medicated to within an inch of their lives. Do you know it is routine to inject the hocks of top class dressage horses every six months or more often? I went to a top-end dealer the other day looking for a good dressage prospect and those that they compete at advanced level and above are x-rayed every year. Horses at the level where they are going to be in demand as future stallions are going to have the most perfect farriery imaginable, be medicated at the tiniest hint of a problem even if they are not lame, and actually MORE likely to breed horses that cannot cope with shoes unless they get the same level of care, not less. And how many people are breeding from top class mares retired and even given away because they have problems? I personally know of two.

I grant you that the stallions that get foot issues before they are, say, five and have shown their talent, will be weeded out (except flatracers of course, who are retired to stud at three or four) but that will be the minority to have problems that young.

I cannot see any evolutionary pressure to create horses that manage shoes better at all. But my question remains - why would we need that evolutionary pressure when the majority of horses do not need shoes at all. Let's just stop using shoes. Much easier.


Next :) ?
 
Last edited:
jesstickle said:
We are a funny old species. God only knows why we take so much enjoyment in winning races and jumping fences that we go to all this trouble.
Click to expand...
You're not kidding. :D I think human ego has a lot to do with it. :)

I also believe it actually takes hooves internal structures as long as the skeleton to fully mature/develop around 6 - 7 years. So a horse shod at two effectively has it's internal foot development slowed down dramatically. Perhaps another reason for some horses having problems when first out of shoes. That thinking also has implications for time being a big factor in rehabilition for some horses. (need a pensive smiley)
 
I don't know how to use those smiley things.........

Yay Amandap - Typically what I see with TBs are adult horses walking around on baby feet.

Often wedged and padded with or without NB shoes or various.

They are usually baby feet because the carers of the foot during its youth have not allowed it to develop properly. Shoeing young, lack of appropriate movement, diet, all contribute.

On deshoeing, they also more often than not have nails through not just the white line which is bad enough, but also the sole and into the internal structures of the foot.

This is usually because the outer wall has been heavily rasped to bring the foot into a predetermined set of angles, and this leaves the farrier nothing to nail into. But they still get nailed.

It is possible to rehabilitate these sore, often infected, baby feet into the adult feet they should be, but the longer it has gone on the harder it is. And that is before addressing any diet etc issues.

I have come across some young horses heading into the same problem, but not yet shod, a simple, structured movement programme has put them right remarkably quickly and they end up with superb feet.

Which quite neatly takes me back to why I got into barefoot all those years ago.
 
Just ventured into this thread and when i saw the amount of posts apologies i havent read them all.
I have 3 horses 1 in shoes and 2 unshod/barefoot.
My farrier does them all, i trust my farrier with my horses feet or i wouldnt use him, ive never used a BFT as tbh ive always wanted my horses shod due to the work they do on the surfaces they are ridden on.
I do read with interest some of the barefoot posts on here and in particular the ones where horses who have been lame have been helped.
I have also read some posts that are not so kind to BFT or the ethos behind it.
I think you get both good and bad in each camp, im happy ive got a good farrier doing my horses, and im sure the barefoot guys are happy with their trimmers.
 
dare.to.go.bare said:
cptrayes said:
The last time I looked I wasn't riding in a suit of hardened steel permanently attached to my not yet fully mature horse :D[/Q

So you back your horses at 7 then? If not your bearing weight on a locomotion muscle not a weight bearing muscle on a undeveloped skeletal frame? :confused:
Click to expand...

Where do you get 7 from? Leg growth plates seal at 4, earlier in TBs. The neck does not seal until 8 and big horses like I ride are far from mature until 9 or 10.

I back at 3. I am not a rigid structure. I weigh around 12% of my horse's weight which is no problem for them to carry. I can feel when they are having the slightest difficulty doing what I ask and stop. And there is plenty of evidence that weightbearing activity in young horses produces stronger bone.

It bears no comparison whatsoever with nailing a hardened steel shoe to a foot which is not fully developed.
Click to expand...
 
Last edited:
cptrayes said:
dare.to.go.bare said:
Where do you get 7 from? Leg growth plates seal at 4, earlier in TBs. The neck does not seal until 8 and big horses like I ride are far from mature until 9 or 10.

I back at 3. I am not a rigid structure. I weigh around 12% of my horse's weight which is no problem for them to carry. I can feel when they are having the slightest difficulty doing what I ask and stop. And there is plenty of evidence that weightbearing activity in young horses produces stronger bone.

It bears no comparison whatsoever with nailing a hardened steel shoe to a foot which is not fully developed.
Click to expand...

Just to add to this that a shoe is on 24/7. A rider is not.

Trina x
Click to expand...
 
nokia said:
This is a very intresting subject, and seems to be becoming a more spoken about at our yard than ever before.

I am hoping to get my horse trimmed soon by a barefoot trimmer, my farrier seems to take no time whatsoever to trim my horses feet and they look awfull.

So im going to use a barefoot trimmer , they are double the price of a normal trim but i want my horses feet to be right so im going to give it a go.

What are other peoples thoughts on here
Click to expand...

This barefoot trimmer is actually breaking the law in charging you to trim your horse's feet.
It is illegal for anyone bar a trained farrier by the Worshipful Company of Farriers or a vet.

You may trim your own horse but cannot hire an unqualified trimmer who has not trained via WCF
 
Foxhunter49 said:
This barefoot trimmer is actually breaking the law in charging you to trim your horse's feet.
It is illegal for anyone bar a trained farrier by the Worshipful Company of Farriers or a vet.

You may trim your own horse but cannot hire an unqualified trimmer who has not trained via WCF
Click to expand...

Where on earth did you get that from???
 
Foxhunter49 said:
This barefoot trimmer is actually breaking the law in charging you to trim your horse's feet.
It is illegal for anyone bar a trained farrier by the Worshipful Company of Farriers or a vet.

You may trim your own horse but cannot hire an unqualified trimmer who has not trained via WCF
Click to expand...

In which case there are a lot of illegal practitioners out there! :D
What total rubbish, who on earth has told you that!
 
For people who think farriers are better trained than trimmers... read the syllabus... its mainly working iron and just one week on foot anatomy. Trimmers train for months!!!!

Something that makes as much sense as barefoot, even Xenophon advocated it, is not a fad. I see people with shod horses with the wrong shaped feet - it makes me cringe but they are blind to see what is going on because they are ignorant to what a foot should look like.
 
Last edited:
i am also so confused with this subject at the mo, as soon as i make one descision somebody says something else! i have used a farrier for years, but my mare has problems with her back end,has arthiritus in her stifle and as a result of that holds her left hind under herself, her left hind hoof has grown boxy, and her right hind has extra growth on the inside and is more of a pigeon shape toe. somebody suggested using a barefoot trimmer to try and balance her out again, but may i add she is now 23!!! and has learnt to cope this way all her life (she has daniloyn, she is not always completley sound but she is otherwise in great condition, in the summer months you wont see any stiffness at all...warm weather definiately does her justice! but i have been warned my friend took this action, they took such dramatic changes to the horses feet they made the horse extremely lame, few months down the line was put to sleep, ( and other problems). My physio also explained how much is would cause her to use many different muscles and cause her pain. also the fact that barefoot trimmers' charge mass amounts of money, take about 4 hours, and everysingle one i have seen has done a crap job, and personally seeing one damage a horses feet. maybe there are some good out there... but at the minute a farrier seems a dam good option to me, apose to a weeks blummin trainin on how to chizel off some foot!!!!!
 
I would rather use a qualified farrier than a barefoot trimmer. Until the barefoot trimmers are officially registered I won't have one near my horses. I've seen far too many stuff up horses feet. Mine are all barefoot, trimmed by my farrier every four weeks. My Clydesdale is worked with no shoes.

Can you put up a picture of your horses feet so that we can see what the problem is?
 
tallyho! said:
For people who think farriers are better trained than trimmers... read the syllabus... its mainly working iron and just one week on foot anatomy. Trimmers train for months!!!!
Click to expand...

Farriers train for years don't they?! So only 1 week out of all those years is spent on foot anatomy?! :eek: :rolleyes:
In answer to the OP - Farrier every time, no way would I let a trimmer near my horse & most certainly wouldn't do it myself!
 
If you want a nice set of gates, a farrier would do a better job than a trimmer, but as for horses feet, well, a trimmer has to be the best option.

Truth is, a few farriers I know have trained up as trimmers. Talking reasonably with them has made me even more sure that unless a farrier has trained up on trimming for barefoot, and not to be putting shoes on, then it really is two different skills poles apart.

I would not let a farrier near any barefoot horse unless they had been trained in barefoot trimming properly.

Anyway, some of the leading exponants of barefoot are farriers who have changed philosophy.
 
Personally I wouldn't let a barefoot trimmer anywhere near my horse. Farrier have done years of training and I'm sticking with them. Didn't it used to be called being unshod not barefoot?
 
Paris1 said:
Personally I wouldn't let a barefoot trimmer anywhere near my horse. Farrier have done years of training and I'm sticking with them. Didn't it used to be called being unshod not barefoot?
Click to expand...

I am so with you on that..... It's been shod and unshod for an age :) I will not use the term barefoot. To me bare foot is when I walk outside minus my shoes.
 
A farrier trained for years,trained to shoe horses.
There is often a need to feed for feet, the barefoot taliban sect will agree with me here.
Also your farrier will not advise on training, bedding, and general management, it is not his specialist subject, only a few will have their own horses, so they are limited in their outlook.
Farriers are basically trained to shoe horses, they need to be good with metalwork or they will be bad farriers.
There are several farriers round here who vary from world class to third class, but some people don't mind the soles being pared off so the shoes will last for 12 weeks, yes twelve weeks!

By the way they all train for four or five years, but at the end, they are not all good farriers.

Half the farriers I know would be out of business if half their customers tried barefoot.
I have not trained for any time, but I do rasp off the edges [mini mustang roll , perhaps].
Horse was sound before, and is now, he can do an hour or more hacking with no problems, so why would I revert to shoes?
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top