can ALL youngsters be taught to really go forward

soulfull

soulfull

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Asking as thinking of going to look at a rising 4yr fairly chunky cob. Who is described as laid back. He walks and trots ut owner doesn't canter so he hasn't yet. (Not a bad thing at his age)

I have a few ideas but How would you assess whether he can be trained to be 'not a plod'?
 
As long as he is forward thinking rather than nappy and backward then he should be easy enough to teach to become more reactive to the aids and thus forward going, many youngsters are seemingly lazy if they have not learnt any different, if he is chunky or overweight it will make it more difficult for him to naturally swing along but again no reason with fitness he will not improve, many cobs are surprisingly light and forward once they find their strength and balance.

As to how to assess I would look at his attitude generally and to going for a short ride alone, if he is bright, interested and looking forward or about him then he will probably want to learn, if he is hanging back trying to look behind him or more interested in going home he may be more of a challenge although without being there it can be hard to gauge attitude.
 
You will be able to tell whether he is forward going in walk and trot. I have a very laid back cob, in that she doesn't react to much that happens around her, she is not spooky in any way. If anything startles her or appears to be different, she stops and looks, then continues on her way. But she is forward going, interested in her surroundings and powerful in her movement.
 
Thanks. My welsh mare had the slowest dullest walk I. The world. But go up a gear and she couldn't wait to have a canter and gallop. Come back to walk and you would think k she was a dope on a rope lol
 
Might sound strange but I haven't met many cobs who aren't forwards going. My own HW is not silly and is rational about her surroundings, for example but is energetic and keen in work. She's not backed yet but on lunge, she's powerful and energetic (like a floating stream train!) and she's responsive. I'm 100% certain that my issue is more likely to be containing that energy, rather than encouraging it! Might you have a chance to lunge him? Obviously, we can tell so much by riding and getting a feel for them but sometimes being able to view from the ground can help complete the overall picture.
 
Orca said:
Might sound strange but I haven't met many cobs who aren't forwards going. My own HW is not silly and is rational about her surroundings, for example but is energetic and keen in work. She's not backed yet but on lunge, she's powerful and energetic (like a floating stream train!) and she's responsive. I'm 100% certain that my issue is more likely to be containing that energy, rather than encouraging it! Might you have a chance to lunge him? Obviously, we can tell so much by riding and getting a feel for them but sometimes being able to view from the ground can help complete the overall picture.
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Great minds and all. I did plan to lunge as well if possible.
I have met a few cobs that were dam hard work even for experiences riders and I need to avoid this as not strong enough. So it will be trying to determine if he is lazy or just uneducated
 
soulfull said:
I have met a few cobs that were dam hard work even for experiences riders and I need to avoid this as not strong enough. So it will be trying to determine if he is lazy or just uneducated
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IME, the hard work ones have never been properly taught to go forwards, and have become very set in their ways. It is possible to retrain this, but it can take a fairly long time and needs a very disciplined, consistent rider. At 4, and never having cantered, you will have a nice relatively-clean slate to work with!
 
smja said:
IME, the hard work ones have never been properly taught to go forwards, and have become very set in their ways. It is possible to retrain this, but it can take a fairly long time and needs a very disciplined, consistent rider. At 4, and never having cantered, you will have a nice relatively-clean slate to work with!
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Yeah that's what I am hoping. Certainly wouldn't be going to view if he was 6 or 7.
However seller has put a hold on sale as her father is very ill.
 
Its all down to the education they've had as a youngster and their temperament - I rarely see any youngster, of any breed, that isnt willing to go forwards - its normally down to the human intervention that turns them into backwards thinking animals!

If they have been well cared for in their first 3 years of life, and had the basic handling taught to them in a kind yet firm manner, plus been backed properly - then there is no reason why a cob, or any breed, shouldnt be forward thinking. I get that some horse's temperaments make them a bit lazier/laid back than others, but with the right education and correct feeding programme you can inject a bit more energy if you need it. Fitness also has a part to play, if a horse hasnt done much work, hasnt been out hacking and is relatively unfit then any breed will be a bit of a plod simply because they physically cannot handle fast work. It takes months of fitness work to get a horse really forward going - hence why you see top level competition horses being described as 'hot', they are super fit hence have a lot of energy that they need to burn through turn out and work.

My WB youngster (who is rising 3 - had him since 1) is actually pretty laid back, I've been lucky to choose a horse with a sensible temperament - he is brave and not very spooky which was what I wanted, I didnt want a silly WB! However he still has plenty of energy when he needs it, he's been lunged once and had no issues with not going forwards. I put this down to correct feeding, plus he was out 24/7 from the age of 1 until he was 2, on hilly ground, which has meant he is pretty fit and is still turned out for around 7-8 hours per day now. He only has 1 feed a day, and there is not much hard feed going on - the bulk of what he eats is grass and good quality hay. I hate people that overfeed youngsters to make them look older and more developed than they actually are, that gives you a lot of health issues further down the line as they have grown too fast and put a lot of pressure on growing bones & joints.

In your case - it will just be a case of trying him out and seeing what you think. If he has been backed properly and had a good education in his early years, he should be responsive to the leg in walk and trot - so you get a reaction straight away when you put your leg on. If he does rush off a bit when you put your leg on that's fine, and actually a good sign - dont punish a horse for going forward ever, even if it was a bit of an over-reaction! If he ignores your leg, or tries any kind of avoidance behaviour like spooking, napping etc then walk away and dont consider him.

If the reaction is mild and he takes a little convincing with the leg to go forwards, but doesnt nap either, then I wouldnt rule him out - it sounds like he's very green so with a consistent approach to his education you could get him to be a forward thinking horse. But you need to be either experienced yourself in training young, green horses or have a trainer who can help you every step of the way; this isnt the kind of horse suitable for someone who doesnt know anything about young horses and their training.

Get as much info as you can from the owner about the horse's early life - what he's done, what he's been fed, how he's been kept, whether he's up to date with vaccs and wormers.....with a youngster you want as much information as you can get on their first years of life as it will be quite telling about any likely health & behaviour issues in the future.

I'd probably try him a couple of times as well, at different times of day if possible - lunge him before you get on, then try him in the school, try him out hacking.....you need a comprehensive view of what he's like and to make sure the owner hasnt given him anything on the day you try him (you can never be too careful, some owners will try anything to offload a horse!).

Good luck!
 
kc100 said:
If the reaction is mild and he takes a little convincing with the leg to go forwards, but doesnt nap either, then I wouldnt rule him out - it sounds like he's very green so with a consistent approach to his education you could get him to be a forward thinking horse. But you need to be either experienced yourself in training young, green horses or have a trainer who can help you every step of the way; this isnt the kind of horse suitable for someone who doesnt know anything about young horses and their training.
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^^ agree
it's not just relevant to young horses either. My section D was very stuffy and backward thinking when I got her at 9yo until she learnt to let go of her tension and swing. She's a super speedy powerhouse now, until she gets worried when she reverts back to type a bit.

I have trained her to be quick on my aids and to think more forward but it hasn't been easy, and if I hadn't seen glimmers of hope along the way it would have been easy to think she'd always be a kickalong. You do need to be disciplined as a rider to effect that kind of change as well, it's ultra consistent repetition all the way :)
 
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