Can anyone help RSPCA identify those in this video?

Just out of interest, if someone did have a stubborn bar steward of a horse who wasn't scared, but just would not load or sodding move, how would you deal with it. I tried halters, lines, food, patience, backing to the stable so he only had one way to go, the wierdest thing is when we had 4 people there and one lifted his leg onto the ramp he waltzed straight up... little focker ;) but how would you deal with just one person??!!
 
Not worthy of argueing over and cattle prods are not illegal as someoene has said this is off defras site:

"Electrical goads should only be used on the hind-quarters of adult cattle or adult pigs if necessary to move them forward where there is space to do so."

So they are wrong on that for starters and also cattle prods are sold on ebay to be used on cattle, horses and dogs see here

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Unique-Cattle...287?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item20ba42ef4f

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Unique-Cattle...300?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item20ba1cb24c
 
Mike007 said:
Or walk onto a lorry.
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I do not think the end justifies the means. I cannot imagine needing a horse to get on a lorry so desperately that it is ok to shock it. Keeping them in the right fields keeps them safe.

And I don't think horses possess the ability to process the thought that walking into the lorry stops the pain, kicking her in the head and running off will have stopped the pain also but would not have been a desirable result.
 
queenbee said:
Just out of interest, if someone did have a stubborn bar steward of a horse who wasn't scared, but just would not load or sodding move, how would you deal with it. I tried halters, lines, food, patience, backing to the stable so he only had one way to go, the wierdest thing is when we had 4 people there and one lifted his leg onto the ramp he waltzed straight up... little focker ;) but how would you deal with just one person??!!
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Honestly?

I had a horse like this and I am ashamed to say we gave up with him. This was after trying everything method under the sun (which wasn't cruel.) A 16.2 welsh x tb having a tantrum was not a pretty sight.
We sold him onto a non-competitive home in the end.
 
Mike007 said:
Or walk onto a lorry.
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Yes, but the horse has to choose between 2 things it is scared of- a dark confined space or an electric shock. In this case, the horse would go in the lorry because it is less scared of that than the prod. It doesnt mean its ok with going in the lorry. It is choosing the lesser of two evils in an effort to keep itself safe.

In the case of an electric fence it can choose between a nice place or getting a shock- so there is a difference. It is only when for example, hunger, exceeds the fear of a shock that the horse goes through a fence. Again, the horse is driven by natural desire to keep itself safe (i.e. fed).

Its also all relative to an individual, some are more frightened of pain than others. And some are greedier than others.

So to me, a prod can not be compared to an electric fence in this circumstance. And furthermore, whatever happened to patience and training? Why bully the horse- isnt riding meant to be a partnership?
 
queenbee said:
Just out of interest, if someone did have a stubborn bar steward of a horse who wasn't scared, but just would not load or sodding move, how would you deal with it. I tried halters, lines, food, patience, backing to the stable so he only had one way to go, the wierdest thing is when we had 4 people there and one lifted his leg onto the ramp he waltzed straight up... little focker ;) but how would you deal with just one person??!!
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wellll.. the chap i bought from the sales wouldnt load he got a hiding from a dealer.
then i had to load him again to move him.. closing his exit behind him didnt work, he went so far back on his front legs resisiting his belly was near the floor.

he isnt one to be hit! so i called on 2 big men, explpained what i wanted them to do .. they crosed arms and ran his arse up the ramp.

I Do need to get him loading and am watching energisers on ebay as the **** all so walks through fencing... :D
 
i dont think anyone is saying it's acceptable to use a cattleprod to load a horse, and its not something i would personally try or condone. But that in the grand scheme of things there are worse cases that the RSPCA refuse/have refused to get involved in.

What is so terribly cruel in this clip? 2 fast short zaps that no doubt hurt in the moment of application but cause no lasting damage. No worse, imo, than what can be seen at local shows with ponies & horses being beaten after a sj round for having a fence down and you dont see the RSPCA patrolling those to catch offenders

many members on here have first hand experience of reporting severe long term cruelty in the form of mistreatment, starvation etc to which the RSPCA did nothing. Look back to the Carrot & Spud thread 'as it happened' for example, when a non-horsey member of the public turned to HHO for help in the case of 2 starving, literally dead on their feet ponies in a field with no water. He had reported them to the RSPCA on the Sunday, and there had been no sign of anyone being near them, nor any contact from RSPCA, by the time he posted on HHO on the Wednesday.
http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=300933&highlight=neglected+horses

Thanks to forum members the BHS welfare officer was down the very next day, the ponies were rescued and moved to a place of safety. Now why couldnt the RSPCA have done that?

Would i use a cattle prod on a horse? no Do i think these girls were silly/irresponsible to do it? yes Do i think there are more deserving cases that the RSPCA could use their resources on? yes
 
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Kokopelli said:
The difference with electric fence is the horse is inflicting the shock on themselves, they know if they touched it they get shocked, whereas with a cattle prod the pain is inflicted directly by the person whether it is the horses fault or not.
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The question that springs to my mind is that if a horse stops at a fence and gets a crack from a whip, they don't know that they are in control of the receiving of that crack, whilst the video does not sit at all well with me, where is the real difference between the horse refusing to go in the trailer and getting a 6v shock and the horse refusing a jump and getting a crack of the whip, and whilst we would not like to see this as a regular (or even a one of consequence) where is the difference between the horse learning that if it resists loading it gets a very short shock, and if it stops at a jump it gets a crack of the whip.

I repeat again that my heart says 'no' to what I see in the video, but my logical brain, asks the above questions.
 
To those saying that it's okay to use these on cows but not horses because they are different - what a foolish notion! Why is it okay to inflict shocks on cows, but not horses? Just because they aren't kept as pets doesn't mean they feel an electric shock any differently.

Generally I think some sense of perspective would be good. I wouldn't use something like this - unless perhaps as a very last resort. In this case it seems unnecessary - the horse is not protesting that much, with a little time, or just a normal 'blue pipe', the effect would be just the same.

However, two shocks with a cattle prod aren't the end of the world. They aren't doing it repeatedly, once the horse behaves, its over and done with. The horse is well looked after by the looks of things - it didn't look terrified or mentally scarred.

In short - there are many things worth getting up in arms over and this isn't one of them.
 
bakedbean said:
if they are NOT scared, i would shut them up for 12 hours, no water, no food, no hay, nowt...take them out, put said food water hay up into a lorry/trailer...in a small paddock/yard..and let them load themselves..simples.
As soon as they are on, remove food, the horse, and repeat, they'llbe on and off in no time.
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you are surely a troll -or just evil ?????
 
cremedemonthe said:
Not worthy of argueing over and cattle prods are not illegal as someoene has said this is off defras site:

"Electrical goads should only be used on the hind-quarters of adult cattle or adult pigs if necessary to move them forward where there is space to do so."

So they are wrong on that for starters and also cattle prods are sold on ebay to be used on cattle, horses and dogs see here

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Unique-Cattle...287?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item20ba42ef4f

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Unique-Cattle...300?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item20ba1cb24c
Click to expand...

But it is neither a cow or a pig. And who would use one on a dog!? and what for! I bet you anything that DEFRA wouldn't permit the use of a cattle prod on a dog!
 
I'm not debating whether cattle prods are cruel or not, as I don't know enough about them or their effects.

However, the fact is, there were two young girls, 'loading a horse', with camera rolling, and a cattle prod at the ready.

In reality there was no real attempt made to load the horse at all - the loader was standing idly on the ramp facing the horse ffs.

The whole episode was set up ready for filming, and if they get their kicks out of causing a horse to panic, for entertainment purposes, then they need to be made an example of.
 
I just saw this on Horse and Hound's page on facebook and i can't believe it!! im still in shock! The horse so nearly fell overbackwards. As well the issue of horse cruelty etc I also think it was very dangerous, the horse could have shot forwards and seriously injured the people.
 
bakedbean said:
LOL

have you not been on any average livery yard, my dear?

most are without food for at least 12 hours when their "doting" owners have fed them their 2 slices of hay, which is then eaten within an hour of owner leaving at 7pm..then its a long wait til said owner reappears at 7am..

QUOTE]

Now aint that the truth !My pet hate!So which is more cruel.Taking a grazing animal and restricting its feed intake for 12 hours or two zaps with a cattle prodder. Some crueltys are socialy acceptable in the horse world yet other lesser things have the bunneyhuggers out baying for blood. Fat lamanitic ponies , Horses that dont get regular exercise. Over rugging , lack of fresh water. It goes on all the time ,but zap some git of a horse twice with a cattle prodder and you are some kind of monster.
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darkhorse123 said:
imo if you have to resort to pain to get your horse to do what you want - your no horseman or woman - just my opinion xxx
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arggg people like you make me want to bang my head on a wall, what hte hell do you think sticking a bit in a horses gob is? or even a pair of spurs?

for godness sake get real.
 
bakedbean said:
LOL

have you not been on any average livery yard, my dear?

most are without food for at least 12 hours when their "doting" owners have fed them their 2 slices of hay, which is then eaten within an hour of owner leaving at 7pm..then its a long wait til said owner reappears at 7am..

troll?..better than a sniping weirdo, eh?
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At a yard my daughter kept her horse one summer, there was a woman who gave her pony one slice of hay at 4 pm, and returned at 9 am, and then said daughter was cruel because she was keeping her horse in during the day to try and get some weight off him. :mad:
 
I feel sickened and saddened that people think it is acceptable to use an electric prod on a horse to load it and then justify it by giving examples of it's use on other animals.

The horse in this video is probably well on the road to being labelled a problem horse, which will be entirely 'man made' ruined like so many others from ignorant cruel handling.
 
I do not approve at all of cattle prods but I am certain that there is no law to prevent them being used on horses so there is sod all the RSPCA can do.

Many years ago I well remember a pony refusing to load on a lorry after a show. In those days few people had their own transport so firms that transported cattle would take them to and from a show.
This pony was being really naughty so they took three partitions from one wagon. put one either side of the ramp held by two men and a third was put behind the pony whereby another driver leant over and poked the pony with a cattle prod. Well that pony, all of 12.2 never reared it just double barrelled the back partition flattening it with the man under it and then the pony ran back further squashing him.

It was one up to the pony and those men all agreed that a cattle prod on horses was not a good idea! Wish the horse had double barrelled the girl prodding it.
 
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