can horses really 'fake' being lame??

Just a question..

If a horse can know to run away from their owners as they know when they are fetched from the field they are ridden. (Or do they just run as they don't want to be caught and has nothing to do with being ridden).

Or a horse can become a giraffe when the owner brings out the bridle as they know if we can't reach we can't get the bridle on. (Or do they just feel like putting there head up high)?

My old mare was an angel to catch at all times, but when she caught ring worm I only used to bring her in the treat her.. After a few times she refused to come in I assume as she didn't want me touching her sore skin! Who can blame her.

why can't they also act lame to get out of work?

I'm am not saying horses fake anything at all, it just seems at times we don't give them credit for there smarts. Just chucking a different view point here.
 
I also will give you another trick my cob can do you cant tell me this isnt clever hes worked out eletric fence spike have no eletric so he pulls them out the ground lays them down and walks over fenceing he learnt this at three and a half i was amazed at that one
 
Horses can reason their way around an electric fence.

However, there is a much bigger conceptual leap (and some degree of mind reading) with, "I'm hopping around on three legs, therefore I didn't get ridden." As I said above, there can be a zillion and one reasons why you didn't ride on a particular day and, unless you have the only horse in the world who can understand English, he will not know which one it is.
 
Yes they can, I knew a pony who would be hopping lame, turn him around to go home and wow.. Perfect!!!! Even had to hold him back once turned.
 
I think that sometimes horses, just like people, can learn to 'over compensate' on another limb after a period of true lameness, still appearing lame to some extent maybe?
 
GG2B said:
I'd be surprised if they did. Given that they're naturally a prey animal I doubt it'd be in their best interests to fake a weakness.
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I thought this too. Then again, I suppose it's not impossible - my Beagle's done it in the past so I suppose if a horse was that way minded at the time, they could?
 
My horse used the wee ing excuse to. Get to a nice patch of juicy lOoking grass and he would stretch out to wee. No wee but would eat the grass...
 
yes I have seen a lot of riding school horses do it. A few that do it quite a bit horses aren't as stupid as it's been made out they certainly do have enough brain power to "get out of doing things"
 
Nope horses can't fake being lame.

However they can learn behaviour, a shetland at the riding school worked out that if he held a leg up and refused to move the rider would get off, when you couldn't find anything and went to trot him up he would be sound.

The small useless ginger one bucks and kicks the arena fence if she's not allowed to canter as I had a sharer who got off a couple of times when she did this out of excitement as they were scared, 16 years later she still does it if anyone new rides her or if it's raining.
 
didnt think this would be quite so controversial! lol

personally i agree with risky business in that its not so much 'faking it' as is really just a learned behaviour like many other things. certainly those that say horses arnt 'smart' enough really arnt giving horses enough credit as im pretty sure every one of us know of horses that have learned to do some pretty extraordinary things!

of coarse this is just my opinion, im not claiming i know for a fact! ;)
 
Yes they 100% can!! My Aunt's cob comes in fine from the field, sound as anything.. As soon as he feels that saddle on his back (he is so lazy!!) he goes totally lame to walk, to anything! And will remain this way for the first 5 mins of being ridden and then once he realises it wont work he goes straight back to being sound.
 
Marie1 said:
Yes they 100% can!! My Aunt's cob comes in fine from the field, sound as anything.. As soon as he feels that saddle on his back (he is so lazy!!) he goes totally lame to walk, to anything! And will remain this way for the first 5 mins of being ridden and then once he realises it wont work he goes straight back to being sound.
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No, that is not laziness...
 
lannerch said:
Sounds like cold backed to me!
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Nope, not at all.. She has had him checked by the vet, the physio, had massages, electronic pulse treatments, the farrier to see if there was any pressure in his hooves. everything under the sun.. It is again just learnt I suppose, he came from an RDA centre and if he did this I guess they didnt use him?
 
So what's the difference between saying they can't fake it, but they can learn the behaviour. IMO that IS faking it. My horse also learnt that if he stopped three times at the first jump at a sj competition he'd get taken out of the ring.
 
Still suspect all cases are a physical problem , may be undetectable by just physical examination but suspect nerve blocks, scans , X-rays and MRI would tell a different story.
 
My pony fakes to need a pee when he wants a break so see no reason why they won't work out they don't have to work if they are "lame" clever, clever animals..
 
nope, its learned behavior- faking it requires them to think ahead, learned behavior is behavior that is repeated when the stimuli is re presented that the animal has associated with that behavior, ie it is conditioned to respond that way brought about often by our own reactions, this is the basis of clicker training, immediacy of reward etc.
Basic behavioral psychology.

Its just nicer to believe that they are some how planning how to get out of that days ride and given human characters.
 
JillA said:
I don't believe they can "fake" but if they exhibit a behaviour and it gets reinforced, even inadvertently, they will repeat the behaviour (the basic rule of reinforcement = any behaviour which gets reinforced is likely to be repeated). So if they go unlevel and work ceases, a smart pony might go unlevel again. The more it is repeated the more confirmed it becomes.
My horse has had his "pretty face" (appealing with dipped head and fluttering eyelashes) reinforced one time by his feed arriving immediately after, so now, at feed time I get his pretty face. Much better than door kicking!
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Not read the rest, but yes, if they get it reinforced! Rode a boy who would start limping at every junction that was the quickest route home. If you rode him though it the lameness would suddenly disappear.... until the next junction! As we were keeping him at the yard and hacking the same routes as the *VERY* novice owners, I can only imagine that he learnt the human got off his back and took him home asap if he exhibited that behaviour!
 
Caol Ila said:
Horses can reason their way around an electric fence.

However, there is a much bigger conceptual leap (and some degree of mind reading) with, "I'm hopping around on three legs, therefore I didn't get ridden." As I said above, there can be a zillion and one reasons why you didn't ride on a particular day and, unless you have the only horse in the world who can understand English, he will not know which one it is.
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Thank God there are some people on this forum who have some common sense!!

Horses are very clever creatures but are never going to develop the brain power and lateral thinking involved to get out of being ridden by 'pretending' to be lame. They either are or are not (lame). BUt I do think bridle lameness and arthritis can often show as intermittent 'lameness'. I would prefer to think of bridle lameness as throwing more weight onto a shoulder and therefore bringing a limb through the stride sequence quicker which mimics lameness - my horse does this from time to time (quite possibly due to my riding with a slipped disc and collapsed hip). Certainly my horse can be 3 or 4 tenths 'lame' for half a lap of the school before he comes completely sound. This is arthritis and I would think this is 'stiffness'.
 
Yeah, I think a lot of horses present as lame or stiff due to the rider being "lame" or stiff in their bodies or some issue with the horse that is exacerbated by the rider. This may disappear after a warm up, not because the horse has realised that you are going to make him work anyway, but you and he have warmed up and the stiffness has dissipated.
 
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