Can I use round up to kill grass safely?

[EMSPony]

Hi all, my EMS girl is almost sound, and due to her diet looking a lot better. I am very worried about the prospect of putting her out on any kind of grass, especially as by the time she is ready it will be spring! Can I use Roundup to kill the grass in a section of her field, which I can then fence off for her, leaving some grazing for my other horses. How long should I keep her off before allowing her on the ground after spraying? I'm thinking I could kill the grass and then get OH to chain harrow the area so all the dead grass is churned up into the dirt. But of course I need it to dry up before I can do that! Does this seem practical or is it a daft idea? Thanks.

 

[Widgeon]

Could you not just use your other horses to graze a section down to dirt? That avoids the need for Roundup or churning up the ground. If you literally kill the grass there'll be no roots to hold the dirt together and it'll quickly turn into a mudbath or a dustbowl.

 

[southerncomfort]

Can't help with your specific query but was Metformin not suggested for your horse?

My pony's insulin levels plummeted after only 3 weeks on Metformin and she's now able to graze with the others for up to 4 hours a day quite safely. The rest of the day she is in the school.

Would creating an all weather turnout area work better for your horse?

I had an large patch of Horsetail sprayed last year and it wouldn't stand up to any horses on it now. We need to turn it over and reseed this spring.

 

[scruffyponies]

It's hard to know where to start with this, so I will simply inform OP that monocots (grasses) are not killed by Roundup.
If you really do want to scorch-earth your paddock and poison your pony, other, even more environmentally nasty products are available.

For anyone else reading this: Don't.

 

[AmyMay]

No, you can’t.

 

[Hallo2012]

a much safer way is to cover the grass with a tarp, let it die underneath and then harrow it to drag all the dead grass off.

 

[cauda equina]

There's a theory that herbicides can trigger laminitis due to hormone disruption so as your pony is lami prone anyway I wouldn't

 

[windand rain]

No would be my answer too grass free would have to be hard standing or artificial surface. Not sure once the weight is off and the EMS controlled why she couldn't graze either on a well eaten down track or in a muzzle (which I hate) but needs must. My laminitic/EMS pony is on a very short grass track with added foggage in winter and added long grass in summer He hasn't had laminitis for 6 years and is still slim with ribs easily felt. They have soaked grass nuts and grass chaff all year too so grass fed

 

[Errin Paddywack]

It's hard to know where to start with this, so I will simply inform OP that monocots (grasses) are not killed by Roundup.

My sister has used Roundup to kill nettles and found to her horror that it did a much better job on the grass round them than it did the nettles. Took a long time to come back too. Not something I would use.

 

[scruffyponies]

There is a reason that glyphosates are being banned. There are too many vested interests, and it keeps being pushed back (currently 2025), but in the future we will look at how we used this product in much the same way as we now do DDT.

 

[EMSPony]

It's hard to know where to start with this, so I will simply inform OP that monocots (grasses) are not killed by Roundup.
If you really do want to scorch-earth your paddock and poison your pony, other, even more environmentally nasty products are available.

For anyone else reading this: Don't.

Not sure where you got your info from but

Roundup: The herbicide active ingredient in Roundup is glyphosate, which if sprayed on the lawn will kill not only the weeds but the lawn. This is a nonselective herbicide that controls any green plant on which it is applied.

https://www.canr.msu.edu/news/difference_between_roundup_and_roundup_for_lawns



For those of you who replied helpfully and without being condescending thanks very much. I will probably try a combination of letting the other horses eat it down, and tarping off some areas. My concern with both of these approaches is that the grass would come back through very quickly (as we are coming in to spring) and the theory that stressed grasses/very short grasses are higher in sugar. Hence I really did want to kill the grass completely.

Can't help with your specific query but was Metformin not suggested for your horse?

My pony's insulin levels plummeted after only 3 weeks on Metformin and she's now able to graze with the others for up to 4 hours a day quite safely. The rest of the day she is in the school.

Would creating an all weather turnout area work better for your horse?



The vet was happy to not give Metaformin as she responded well to diet and is now almost sound. I'll speak to the vet and get her insulin tested again to see where we're at and whether the vet thinks she'd be safe on a tiny amount of grass with soaked hay. I'd love to create an all weather turnout for her, but sadly don't have the finances at the moment. The horses are at home and I don't have a school or similar.

 

[Tiddlypom]

Roundup does kill grasses and pretty much everything else. I have to use it (very carefully) several times a year to keep vegetation off my several 100 metres of perimeter anti rabbit netting. It kills everything it touches, you end up with bare ground.

I'd never use it anywhere that was to have horses on.

 

[windand rain]

Recent research suggests the sugar levels are slightly higher in very short grass but the time it takes to eat it and the movement to find it far outways the impact of the grass especially if grazed continuously 24/7/365 so not rested. This is certainly what I have found unfortunately it also means you might lose the grass as it is always very short and drought will burn it off

 

[scruffyponies]

Not sure where you got your info from but

Roundup: The herbicide active ingredient in Roundup is glyphosate, which if sprayed on the lawn will kill not only the weeds but the lawn. This is a nonselective herbicide that controls any green plant on which it is applied.

https://www.canr.msu.edu/news/difference_between_roundup_and_roundup_for_lawns

I stand corrected. I had it in my mind that Roudup was selective, because it is used so much on arable crops.
Notwithstanding, it's not appropriate to use where you are going to put a pony.

 

[EMSPony]

Bare ground, at least in a sectioned off area is exactly what I want at the moment. - edit to say this was a reply to Tiddlypom

It feels like everything you read has a different response!

https://neeness.com/how-long-after-spraying-roundup-can-horses-graze/
https://forums.horseandhound.co.uk/threads/roundup-weedkiller.546858/

However, I'll try other methods and also discuss with vet as to best options.

 

[EMSPony]

Recent research suggests the sugar levels are slightly higher in very short grass but the time it takes to eat it and the movement to find it far outways the impact of the grass especially if grazed continuously 24/7/365 so not rested. This is certainly what I have found unfortunately it also means you might lose the grass as it is always very short and drought will burn it off

That's really useful, thank you.

 

[cauda equina]

I go with very short grass for my ponies; even if it is higher % sugar than long grass the amount they eat is very small so the overall amount of sugar is small
Then top up with hay (preferably soaked) or haylage

 

[Burnttoast]

Presuming this is not for winter use, and bucking the trend, I wouldn't be averse to doing this if no other options are available, with the caveat that bare ground will quickly be colonised by annual plants, some of which are very successful and slightly toxic (eg groundsel), others are fine (eg knotgrass) but not necessarily lower in sugar than grass and may be higher. I would spray off the grass, keep horses away while the grass dies off, and put a surface of some kind down, with gravel boards if necessary to keep it in, keeping areas clear or putting mats down for feeding hay if sand is used. You'll still have to weed pick occasionally but it's easier to pull things up from a loose surface than from compacted ground.

An alternative is to get a digger in and scrape off the turf layer, then put a surface down.

Once you've got a grass-free area you don't need to worry about sudden flushes when the weather changes and you always have somewhere 'safe' for them to be out.

The herbicides that really bother me are the ones horses regularly consume - ie selective ones, which frequently appear in manure, so are clearly eaten. They are endocrine disruptors and seem to me to be a potential candidate for all sorts of metabolic issues in horses.

 

[Hallo2012]

I go with very short grass for my ponies; even if it is higher % sugar than long grass the amount they eat is very small so the overall amount of sugar is small
Then top up with hay (preferably soaked) or haylage

also do this, really short grass and ad lib soaked hay in summer

 

[RHM]

My old YO did this. It actually worked really well for what we needed it for. Waited three weeks before putting horses back on it and hung hay nets for them.
It absolutely decimated the grass!
Only issue is once it rained heavily it was unusable as it was a bog! But for dry days it was great. If doing it again and wanted to use it more consistently I would maybe consider different surfaces such as old astroturf or equivalent.

 

[Mule]

Duplicate

 

[Mule]

Roundup will do the trick all right. I use it on recalcitrant dock plants. There are some huge ones in my field that won't die so I've given up on using the herbicides that are safe for grass. I just spot treat them with Roundup.

I can't remember off hand how long you have to exclude animals from the pasture after using it. It will say on the package. I think it's 5 days. I've re-stocked it with horses as soon as the package says it's ok to and haven't had any problems.

The problem with killing off grass is that doing so will cause a weed infestation in the area you spray. I would be tempted just to graze it bare with other animals (if possible) and then move your horse in. Grazing it bare will cause weeds too but not as much as spraying it. You could always kill off the grass and re seed it in the future, if you need to. If possible, use an area of land with good drainage to minimize the mud.

 

[Burnttoast]

On the subject of selective weedkillers (not that we were), just seen this: https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/feb/09/toxic-herbicide-exposure-study-2-4-d

 

[EMSPony]

The problem I have is that the area I am thinking of using is near the muck heap, as that also means she can walk in and out of the barn as she wants to - the other horses don't touch the grass there, presumably because it is sour/tainted from run off, so it's particularly lush looking and needs to be dealt with somehow.

It's only something I'm looking to use through spring/summer and autumn 'flushes'. I wouldn't use it in wet periods. Although she's losing weight well and you can feel ribs etc she still has some abnormal fat pads to shift so we're not there yet weight wise and I don't want to take any chances. Hopefully by next winter she can graze with the two geldings on very short grass with soaked hay as necessary, and then I can continue to manage her that way, with turnout but minimal grass, and soaked hay. Weeds don't bother me as I have a pretty heavy duty flame weeder so can spot flame any problematic weeds. It would give her the opportunity to walk in and out as she wanted, and see the two boys - she struggles with separation - she'll leave them but hate it if they leave her - so at the moment I have to have one in the barn with her all the time and the other out grazing by himself, and swop regularly. She would cope fine if she could see they were just a short distance from her in the field, in the barn she can't see them once they've gone out the door. I could then hard strip graze the field with the boys, and incrementally take her fence out so that she was moving from her bare patch to a tiny, well grazed area and so on. It would also mean I can tie several small haynets up for her to encourage movement and would give me more opportunities for enrichment feeding for her. I'll have some more discussions with vet and farrier and see how other people have transitioned their EMS horses back on to grass. And I need to get bloods done again. The last thing I want to do is get it wrong and let her have some grass which makes her sore again.

 

[cauda equina]

Can you scalp the lush grass with a lawnmower and collect the bits?

 

[EMSPony]

Can you scalp the lush grass with a lawnmower and collect the bits?

That's a good idea, but it's a bumpy area, and I think the grass would grow again really quickly. And when it's growing she'll be nibbling. I need to kill it, either chemically, or if that isn't safe, by covering it with black plastic and trying to exclude the light I think.

 

[Miss_Millie]

Roundup is incredibly incredibly harmful full stop, it is carcinogenic. Please do not touch it with a barge pole.

 

[cauda equina]

That's a good idea, but it's a bumpy area, and I think the grass would grow again really quickly. And when it's growing she'll be nibbling. I need to kill it, either chemically, or if that isn't safe, by covering it with black plastic and trying to exclude the light I think.

OK, how about mowing then using your flame thrower on it?

 

[EMSPony]

OK, how about mowing then using your flame thrower on it?

Flame weeders don't kill grass. They are designed for broad leaved weeds. It would take a lot of goes with a flame weeder to knock it back any.

 

[Mule]

The problem I have is that the area I am thinking of using is near the muck heap, as that also means she can walk in and out of the barn as she wants to - the other horses don't touch the grass there, presumably because it is sour/tainted from run off, so it's particularly lush looking and needs to be dealt with somehow.

It's only something I'm looking to use through spring/summer and autumn 'flushes'. I wouldn't use it in wet periods. Although she's losing weight well and you can feel ribs etc she still has some abnormal fat pads to shift so we're not there yet weight wise and I don't want to take any chances. Hopefully by next winter she can graze with the two geldings on very short grass with soaked hay as necessary, and then I can continue to manage her that way, with turnout but minimal grass, and soaked hay. Weeds don't bother me as I have a pretty heavy duty flame weeder so can spot flame any problematic weeds. It would give her the opportunity to walk in and out as she wanted, and see the two boys - she struggles with separation - she'll leave them but hate it if they leave her - so at the moment I have to have one in the barn with her all the time and the other out grazing by himself, and swop regularly. She would cope fine if she could see they were just a short distance from her in the field, in the barn she can't see them once they've gone out the door. I could then hard strip graze the field with the boys, and incrementally take her fence out so that she was moving from her bare patch to a tiny, well grazed area and so on. It would also mean I can tie several small haynets up for her to encourage movement and would give me more opportunities for enrichment feeding for her. I'll have some more discussions with vet and farrier and see how other people have transitioned their EMS horses back on to grass. And I need to get bloods done again. The last thing I want to do is get it wrong and let her have some grass which makes her sore again.

Your plan sounds good. I think it will suit what you need.